Effluent Man

As always there appears to be two sides to this story,which has been covered extensively on local media.It appears that NIA had a deal whereby if 15,000 flew to Dublin Flybe would receive a £260K rebate.It became clear in the last few days that the airline would fall short by 150-200.Flybe then paid this munber to travel to reach the quota.It appears to me that this was a legitimate commercial tactic,although somewhat unorthodox.Clearly Flybe miscalculated and should have offered cut price seats in advance of the year end but having said that NIA should shut up and pay up as agreed.The involvement of various Green Party eccentrics wheeled(or bicycled) out by the media is irrelevant as exactly the same number of flights would have taken place had the fares been adjusted to achieve the quota.

befree

Someone is paying £18.66 for each persion to fly from Norwich to Dublin if they get 15,000 to go in one year. It is likely that some of that will end up on the local the council tax. The real nutters are those who are giving Flybe the money to make an thin route work. Any sane promotion should encorage people to go to Norwich instead of paying them to leave.

You would think it was an April 1st joke if it was not true.

ESCNI

"Hey, if the route isn't viable, it isn't viable! "

Nowhere does the report suggest that the route isn't viable.....merely that the airline was falling slightly short of some arbitrary target.

IMHO, the airport will have a difficult legal case trying to enforce their own belated interpretation of the term passenger.

Pilot Positive

Too right. To date Flybe have been responsible for carrying a fair share of passengers at low costs to/from Norwich and have therefore contributed to its success.

Its a little harsh that it should be penalised due to not meeting a goal which is based on pax demand for travel to & from that location?

If the penalty were to be based on carbon emmissions per passenger capita then there might be some justification....perhaps the green lobby would be happy with that as well?

Tyreplug

Close Norwich and open a base at Newquay! The surfs great.

virginblue

Maybe Norwich airport has done their maths and found out that paying 280.000 GBP for an additional 15.000 passengers, i.e. almost 20 GBP per pax, is not such a great deal, given that most likely the 280k come on top of discounted fees and charges (and this was only the bonus for a single Flybe route). How much money need passengers to spend at shops etc. at the airport that this expenditure for the airport is justified (given that this spending does not go into the pockets of airport directly) - and do LCC pax spend this amount of money? Maybe the airport now figures that they are better of financially offering just a few high yielding flights by KLM, Eastern etc.and are not exactly keen to keep Flybe. More than often attracting LCCs to regional airports has a lot to do with the ego of those involved and not necessarily is the result of a strong business case.

JobsaGoodun

I agree. Lets get some perspective here.

Airlines are paying passengers to travel all the time!! How is it possible for Ryanair to offer fare promotions at £10 each way inclusive of all taxes when this only covers the APD charged on such tickets! In these cases FR is covering the cost of all other charges associated with that ticket price (wages/lease cost/airport,pax charges/fuel etc).

As with most airlines nowadays, Flybe make money on anciliary revenues. The chances are that NWI management are unable to confirm exactly how many passengers in the past 12mths have paid a ticket price that covered the operating cost of their trip. If Flybe want to pay £80 for a passenger to travel instead of getting £10 in revenue from them then that is a commercial decision and doesn't mean that those travellers are not classed as passengers!

Yes Flybe hightlights it environmental credentials (which are amongst the best) but at the end of the day they are running a business and the government will still get their fair share of the APD generated from all of these 'extra' passengers onboard these flights.

Who was it that said that 'no publicity is bad publicity'? Flybe and NWI airport have recieved more 'column inches' in the last couple days than they could ever have wished for, and I bet the equivalent press coverage would have cost more than £280k!

Pilot Positive

Nicely put Jobsagoodun,

Aviation is a business and subject to commercial enterprise.

Cynic opinions aside - Flybe is, at the moment, attempting to lead and champion the green cause which can only be good for the rest of the industry.

Its a slow process refining a business to make it economically green but at least they have started somewhere... just don't expect an instant miracle cure and aircraft to run on daisies (they are green aren't they?)

CWL_Chris

How are the new Flybe routes doing? Especially out of CWL!?

JobsaGoodun

Bit early to tell Chris - they've ony been going for 3 days.

I think the business traveller will benefit from the Flybe frequencies and the product on offer more so than if they travelled BMIBaby but it'll be interesting to see over the coming months

CWL_Chris

Agreed that it is far too early to see their success. However, I just wanted to get some numbers on the routes thats all!

I also think that the increased frequency will benefit customers, especially business.

uncovered

Apparently internal memo just gone out saying best sales day ever yesterday.

CWL mentioned as strong. Apparently Bay City Rollers pictured at CWL yesterday singing Bye Bye Baby, plus pictures of a light projection in centre of Cardiff.

CWL_Chris

Its gone 12pm, right!? April fools thing....

mathers_wales_uk

It was no joke afterall they said they were attempting to get the bay city rollers in order to play Bye Bye Baby and in fact that is what they did. Was talking to one of the guys from Flybe which stated that they did the same up at BHX.

Loads are doing ok i guess some would be even better if on a DH8 instead of the EM4 as it is much more ecenomical to operate. Operation is looking good and the guys that have been doing at CWL haven't complained too much of the operation as i'm aware.

CWL - GLA leg is looking poor at the moment but hopefully will pick up, with the CWL-CDG leg looking very strong.

Only 1 passenger on the T34642 to NCL so have Flybe allready taken away some of their passengers?

Regarding the FLYBE - NWI debate, apparently Flybe offered £40,000 to cover the gap but NWI wanted it all.

FL370 Officeboy

Flyerguy:

What has this got to do with what the company is like to work for? I'm quite happy for the company to make sound commercial decisions to preserve the business and hence my job thanks. Flybe's commercial nous is so much better than BACON's it is unbelievable and I'm quite happy for them to continue this way. So what exactly are you so angry about?

GoEDI

EDI route is off to a bit of a slow start. Not a single flight has operated more than half full yet on the 49 seater E145.
Today's loads on EDI-CWL were 11, 10 and 21. CWL-EDI were 18, 11, but I couldn't tell you what the 3rd CWL-EDI was booked at.

CWL_Chris

Thanks for the information. I expect a relatively sluggish start on the routes, but would think that loads will increase as Flybe gain some passenger loyalty and general awareness of the routes spread.

Wellington Bomber

Is it not still Easter holidays and the kids are off school. If so the loads will be light and not a true reflection of generally business traffic.

I would be more interested in figures next week

airhumberside

Some schools went back this week. Others break up at the end of this week and only had bank holidays off at easter

oapilot

In what sense? Do you mean that they would have carried more pax with a 78 seater on the route ie the flights were overbooked. Or do you mean that the D8 is more financially efficient?

The D8 has a lower fuel burn per seat mile, but with a sub 49pax load, the 145 is more economical, as it has a lower actual burn, plus lower airways costs courtesy of its lower weight. (And it's quicker)