BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Copenhagen]

Now that the Strike has become political, (No doubt the SWP wants to win this battle at any cost - probably even the closure of the airline), I really hope that crew members vote no to the strike. It's no longer about staff, its about a socialist world. socialist workers dont want negotiation - These are the guys that stopped the negotiations in may by storming ACAS - when the dispute could have been settled.



Perhaps crewfriend could explain how this benefited cabin crew? It didn't SWP aren't interested in protecting cabin crew, but overthrowing the government and replacing it with a far left one.

[Rover90]

Would you care to share the losses as well?

The riches of this company should be shared out equally.

BA is a very correctly audited organization and in 2008-09 it made a loss of £401 million, that was compounded by a loss of £531 million in 2009-10.

That is a loss of £932 million over two years. A loss of £932,000,000 and we have approx 57,000 employees.

Our individual share would be minus £16,350 if you feel this is a good option.

Thought not. But it does illustrate very well the magnitude of the problem that we face.

[spin_doctor]

when my ballot paper arrives, as I'm sure it will - bearing in mind that I left the union months ago - like the texts, emails and post I keep receiving, how will you feel when I show it to my line manager to prove the illegality of the ballot?

My understanding was that the ballot was ruled illegal because union officials openly encouraged ex-members and those about to take VR to vote, knowing that they were ineligible.

The union has to make 'reasonable efforts' to keep the ballot to current members, I think it was suggested that a note with the ballot paper explaining the rules would have been sufficient.

[Snas]

The union has to make 'reasonable efforts' to keep the ballot to current members, I think it was suggested that a note with the ballot paper explaining the rules would have been sufficient.

Still being a member following cancelled payment, numerous phone calls, 2 letters, 1 of which sent recorded is not reasonable effort, it’s no effort whatsoever.

[VSOP Fables]

"BA is a very correctly audited organization and in 2008-09 it made a loss of £401 million, that was compounded by a loss of £531 million in 2009-10.

That is a loss of £932 million over two years. A loss of £932,000,000 and we have approx 57,000 employees.

Our individual share would be minus £16,350 if you feel this is a good option."

And pass the hat round for new aircraft?

[Sporran]

Info from 'another place' -

I think we can all see that a NO vote to the strike call means that BA, the Company, wins and so do the staff. However the malcontents remain.
So what about a YES vote to the strike call. It only needs a majority of voters not a majority of CC. There may not be many voters so perhaps only 3000-3500 possible strikers.

I suggest that BA might ignore the strike call. The Company might say that it has taken legal advice and believes that this proposed strike is a continuation of the previous strike and the strikers are not protected in the same way from dismissal.

1. BA does not instigate any Court action.
2. BA advises the strikers that it contemplates dismissing them.
3. BA now has sufficient trained staff to crew the cabins on a very large number, perhaps as much as 90% of its flights and certainly 100% of the higher revenue earning flights.
4. The strike goes ahead, probably poorly supported.
5. BA dismisses the strikers.
6. The strikers have to take action against the Company.
7. The company refuses to re-employ the strikers.
8. BA offers a modest sum to each striker. This will hardly matter to the Company as expensive Legacy CC have been replaced by cheaper MF CC.

Will Unite fund the striker's legal action? I doubt it. The malcontents are gone and the cabin is a nicer place to work in.

This seems like a very fair appraisal of the situation.

For the deluded, the commies, the unwashed SWP 'types', the fantasists and general malcontents - TAKE NOTE!!!

[Abbey Road]

"UK snow: British Airways judged best at keeping passengers informed"

Here is a little article praising BA's efforts at keeping pax informed during the snow disruption. As an aside, it contains a couple of comments (shown below) pertinent to the subject of this thread. Direct and to the point!

UK snow: British Airways judged best at keeping passengers informed
Which airlines have done the best job at keeping you up to date on the go?

By Milo Yiannopoulos 7:00AM GMT 22 Dec 2010
.............
Good old BA. Sure, their flight attendants redefine the word arch, but when you do get through to them, or log on to one of their mobile apps, it's efficient and classy service all the way. If only the lazy beggars would stop striking.
............

Full article at: UK snow: British Airways judged best at keeping passengers informed - Telegraph

[From Tunbridge Wells]

Crewfriend

I only know what BASSA tell me and I believe that 100%.

Crewfriend - and there lies the problem. You have been hoodwinked majorly and I'm sorry to say so have the other believers in this cult called a union.

Please try and do your own research rather than rely on Bassa - speak to pilots and ask them if they've left Balpa to join Unite, for example. Go back and look at the timeline of the "negotiations" (inverted commas because you actually need to attend to negotiate)

Make up your own mind by acquainting yourself with facts rather than hearsay and spin

[TorC]

@ Crewfriend

Regarding your statement that BA Flight Crew are joining bassa, can you explain this, quoted from • BASSA• About us

"The British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (BASSA) is a branch of the Transport & General Worker's Union (T&GWU) exclusively for British Airways cabin crew." (my bold).

?

[TorC]

Originally Posted by Sporran

2. BA advises the strikers that it contemplates dismissing them.

Or on the basis that no bassa supporters listen to/read anything that BA publishes/says, maybe they don't bother to advise anyone?

[Beagle9]

Reluctant tho' I am to do his work for him, Crewfriend did say that pilots had left BALPA to join UNITE, not BASSA, clearly not the same thing. What branch he claims, who knows? Likely to be true? In infinitesimally small numbers I would imagine. I mean there's bound to be a few extreme left leaning pilots, who might feel that this current pan UK and pan European mobilisation of "the workers" against capitalism is for them.

On another of his points, I find myself (despite it being almost impossible for me to be more diametrically opposed in all other views) agreeing with him.

One of BASSA's "excuses" for their appalling handling of this, is that when BA returns to decent profits, "The managers will be getting their big bonuses". It seems to me that Unite and the unions representing other staff when negociating cost savings during the Company's financial crisis, have missed a trick. Why did they not negociate a change to any future Profit Share Scheme, in that instead of it being calculated on a person's salary, it's just a straight equal share? ie. £10m pot divided by 40,000 staff. No complicated formula that's costly to administer and a very real incentive to deliver excellent customer service (and not to strike! - maybe that's why they didn't suggest it!) for the front line staff that often receive some of the smaller sums under the current scheme.

This would have been a great coupe for the unions to say to their members - look what we've achieved for you - you'll now recoup some of what you are having to give away in cost savings, when BA returns to profit

The senior managers would, of course get their own bonuses, as now, which are part of their contract, and there would be some losers (many on here, I'm sure) but maybe much more robust profits, because the sum involved is a genuinely incentivising sum that people would work hard to achieve.

The rest of what Crewfriend says, is of course, fantastical, deluded and frankly quite disturbing nonsense.

[MrBunker]

Beagle9,

This rumour did the rounds a while back and, like so much BASSA detritus, it gets resurrected on a regular basis (vis the alleged look on WW's face every time he receives a ballot result. Clearly the impact has shocked him to the very core each time. But I digress). It certainly used to, and I'd imagine still does, say on the Unite website that they are not the national representative body for airline pilots and redirected one to BALPA. No more than hot air from CrewFriend. But they knew that already as they trolled on here I'm sure.

MrB

[ranger07]

I for one am pleased that the likes of 'crewfriend' have graced us with their presence on this forum. If any proof were needed of such extreme thoughts that blurs logical thinking, this is a fine example. I reckon some of the most militant members of BASSA may be cringing over this individuals' post, esp with the association of the SWP!

I’m reminded of ‘comical Ali’ (Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf-minister of dis information), in the 2003 Iraq invasion. Such was his brainwashed dedication to his leadership, the final rant was as to how the US troops were totally defeated........as several US tanks positioned behind him!

Funny...but also a worry!

[fly12345]

Logic has been missing from the bassa militants since the beginning of the dispute, once again there will be a substantial yes vote for strike action (why change an habit of a lifetime?) and it will be very interesting to see what the company reaction will be.

[mohitomaster]

The logic is: BA are so close to busting our trade union. This has been their goal since the onset of this dispute. The majority of crew have seen and witnessed their underhand tactics, and are savy enough to now know that cost cutting was never the bigger picture. The reward through busting Bassa, will give them a free hand to work us to the bone for the minimum pay. They are now steam rolling through our agreements on a daily basis, and it will only get worse. Our only option is to fight, or we lose any remaining employment protection.
In fact, my prediction is we will all be working to a new fleet (scheme) contract within 2 years, if BA succeed. You only have to look at other airlines who have had their union busted to see what the future has in store.

[fly12345]

mohitomaster, the union is doing a perfectly good job in destroying itself.

[Beagle9]

Mohitomaster

What BA are busting, is BASSA's STYLE of unionism. ie resistant to the very smallest of change, objecting to the tiniest thing (hot towels in WT+?), agressive, misrepresenting company offers by spreading completely inaccurate rumours about them, not turning up for meetings, refusing to negociate (unless it's on their proposal, on show of hands at a union meeting), making offers worth less than a third they claim (either laughably incompetent, or criminally dishonest) and employing the most purile childish rhetoric in their communications.

If BA have been trying dirty tricks, it's because they have to play hardball with a union that they know will spin things shamelessly to win support for their real aim, giving Walsh a right royal kicking. (Oh, and it seems now, sticking one up for the British worker in solidarity with the SWP).

All other areas of the airline, including other Unite branches traditionally pretty anti BA managed to get a deal with BA without being "busted".

The best thing you can do to protect your terms and conditions and prevent what BASSA claim will happen, is settle. Fast. Then rebuild a decent union, with which the company can work by having a complete clearout of the current BASSA and Amicus leadership.

I say this as a fellow cabin crew member and former union member.

[mohitomaster]

Sorry, but if they succeed in busting Bassa, A new union would be far too weak to protect it's workers, by which time our agreements will be in tatters. I don't see it as an option. Whilst I agree that Bassa has in the past been a bit quick to say "no" to changes, negotiated change is the right method. I do not believe that they should be discredited and cut out the loop at every opportunity. Union busting is big business, and I think BA's cabin crew will be used as an example of how to bust a union for many years to come. No doubt Balpa will be next, or certainly when they disagree with a new company policy/ pay cut in the future.

[plodding along]

The reward through busting Bassa, will give them a free hand to work us to the bone for the minimum pay.

Six months ago you were all saying you would be left at home with no work.
Make your minds up, which is it?

There is no way legacy crew will end up on the new contract, the new contract is for new people, old crew get a payrise and allowance protections.

Have any legacy crew had their payscales changed? No.
Have they had allowances reduced? No.
Have they lost long day payments, early report payments, CAT payments? No.
Why? Because these are contractual and can't be changed.

This is simply militants striking to keep bassa's power over the operation it has nothing to do with contracts.

Stop trying to pull the wool over people's eyes.

If crew were that concerned about different terms for new joiners they would have gone on strike over the new pension.
Did they? No, they were the only group not even to be consulted about pensions.

If you want to have a hissy fit at least be honest about it.

[GS-Alpha]

Union busting is big business, and I think BA's cabin crew will be used as an example of how to bust a union for many years to come.

This is almost correct. I believe this dispute will indeed be a turning point and will be used as an example for years to come, but it will be to demonstrate that the 'old style' unions are no longer fit for purpose in the modern world. Saying "no" to a company just because you think you have the power to, without thinking about the commercial reasons for the request and without sensible business-like discussion is no longer acceptable.

BA are going to win this dispute, it is as simple as that. For a long time now, the cabin crew and the union have been pushing the wild animal (BA) back into a corner. The company has been fighting back without too much aggression, hoping the union and cabin crew will grow tired and leave it alone, but the union are not giving up, and it has gradually backed BA into the corner. Eventually, the company will be properly cornered with nowhere to go. It will either fight as aggressively as it can for its survival, or it will be destroyed. My money is on it being fierce enough to win by a country mile. My worry is just what destruction it will leave in its path. Many cabin crew are going to get really hurt when the animal is eventually cornered with nowhere to go.

Similarly, once the animal has the taste for human flesh, it will come after more (ie other workgroups). I believe BASSA have truly ruined it for us all - not just themselves, and this will be the real learning point for which this dispute will be used as an example for years to come.