BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[midman]

There are many in the Bassa camp who see this as part of a political movement (see the comment earlier about 'workers rising up') and the leadership of Bassa and Unite see an opportunity to be at the vanguard of that struggle to encourage political overthrow and even social revolution.

Also, the unquestioning minority only believe what is told to them by their 'trusted' leaders, and they believe it implicitly - everything else is part of a conspiracy to harm, undermine and break them, and is just based on lies, fear, ignorance and an inability to see the 'truth', which only they can recognise.

Clinically, it's called paranoia, and is exhibited by all cults as they engineer their own, inevitable demise.

[highlifer]

So, Crewfriend - when my ballot paper arrives, as I'm sure it will - bearing in mind that I left the union months ago - like the texts, emails and post I keep receiving, how will you feel when I show it to my line manager to prove the illegality of the ballot????

[Crewfriend]

You are quick to ridicule.

Crew Defence is going from strength to strength conceived and led by lionhearts.

The talent in our community is astounding and that will show through.

[ottergirl]

Sadly, there is also plenty of naivety in our community and that's the part shining through at present.

[midman]

Originally Posted by Crewfriend

The workers will be victorious and it is long deserved. The riches of this company should be shared out equally.

This sounds like a line straight from the Socialist Workers Party. Are you a member?

Also, did you really mean to say the riches of the company should be shared out 'equally'? Did you mean 'fairly'? Or are you seriously into the Marxist model of economics?

[Crewfriend]

As it happens yes I am a member of the SWP, not that I see what that has to do with anything.

And I also mean equally.

I appreciate diferent jobs demand different salaries but share in profits should be equal for every employee from the CEO to the lowest paid.

[Wirbelsturm]

It is not sad.

eventually you will see that this fight is for the very survival of Trade Unionism not only in BA but maybe even the country, maybe even Europe.

The professor at Bedfont said this is the single most important dispute in the history of Trade Unionism, and it is.

It is akin to the fight for women's votes and other such historical landmarks.

Hmmm, appears to have swallowed the rhetoric pill hook, line, sinker, rod and angler.

I suppose when Red Len stands proud over the crashed rubble of the capitalist scum state that has funded his lively hood for the past few decades he will proudly invite Hugo Chavez in to oversee the distribution of the assets to the common people. Sadly as BASSA can't even organise a ballot without screwing it up and offering illegal, non impartial advice, I see more of a 'new Zimbabwe' than a shining Socialist Star.

This dispute purely shows how wrong the Union paymasters have got an event in respect to the public view of a well paid workforce not accepting acceptable change in the face of changes made by their peer workgroups.

BASSA will not 'win' this dispute, they lost it over a year ago. They are trying to salvage something but they will not be allowed, by those of us who have invested so much into this company, to return to the lavish status quo they have always enjoyed.

Enjoy you dream, we all need a hobby.

Oh, and by the way, you will generally find the 'flightdeck' bolted infront of the forward galley on most aircraft, it's heavy, filled with screens and buttons, I'm sure you know where it is. We don't call you 'Galley' or 'Bev Maker' (unless your name happens to be Beverley Maker is suppose) so please show us as a workgroup similar courtesy.

[midman]

As I said, this is seen by the Bassa hardliners as a political issue - no longer about working one down, that's why they are willing to ignore that issue.

This is about a political battle for strident left wingers who see an opportunity to fight back against the capitalist system.

I feel so sorry for the vast majority of cabin crew who are being used as pawns in a bid to further certain people's political goals.

[PC767]

Crewfriend - stay off the juice, your exaggerated sentiments are doing us no favours. If I dare use a war analogy (without being shot!), I agree with the battle but not the tactics, ie to a point I'm on your side.

Another request which, will involve the word pilots. (I mention this because on every other ocassion I mention the career I'm moderated out - indeed last time I was barred from posting). It will also include BA office staff/ground staff/managers and engineers et al.

If you have been unable to make it to work at any time during the snow disruption, have you had leave docked from your annual entitlement or been forced into unpaid leave, ie no pay? I ask because cabin crew, it is reported, have. More specific to our pilots, have days stuck downroute which would have been days off at base, become days off achieved thus straight back to work upon return to LHR/LGW. I ask because again this is the cabin crew experience.

Clearly these events breach cabin crew agreements, but then we are nolonger considered to have agreements when it suits BA. A counter arguement would be acceptable if, during this time of disruption, every employees at BA has been treated the same.

So how many people have lost leave or had basic pay docked?

[Wirbelsturm]

have days stuck downroute which would have been days off at base, become days off achieved thus straight back to work upon return to LHR/LGW.

Yes. However that is something I will be discussing with my manager as, I believe, under the rules we can claim either an extension to our leave or an additional day/days to a Duty Free Week. It just won't get processed automatically and your roster will be moved forward as normal. Like expense claims you will need to be a little proactive in claiming disruption back.

[Far-Ted]

Originally Posted by Crewfriend

Unite did make a mistake by saying we would get the offer. BASSA stepped in and rightly stopped it as it was insulting.

I have my doubts over Unite but not BASSA.

My recollection of events is slightly different to yours.

Bassa only rejected BA's offer after being shamed into doing so by the actions of CC89.

Initially Bassa begrudgingly supported the offer.

[Ops_Room_Junkie]

SWP Doctrine

eventually you will see that this fight is for the very survival of Trade Unionism not only in BA but maybe even the country, maybe even Europe.

Well, that's good then, because this is a fight that WILL be lost / has already been lost. Therefore it should put closure to the whole sorry tale and the delusions of the two BASSA camps a) those who are privilliged, selfish and feel the world owes them a living and b) those with a political agenda who want to cause trouble in the name of their outdated socialist beliefs.

This type of Trade Unionism that gives workers rights (those poor gits being exploited that need their rights figthing for) and Unions in general a bad name and undermines any cause that is actually worth fighting for.

[Right Engine]

The problem I have always had is this is not about workers rights versus a ravaging Corporate machine. BA has tended to the sensitivities of an exceptionally pampered, self important group of people for the last 2 decades. Their collective sense of entitlement has been nurtured to the point that when, in the hands of overly principled hooligan like DH, they genuinely think that whilst they earn 2.5 times more than the average Cabin Crew member in the UK, they should refuse a pay freeze or a request to ask their most senior colleagues to muck in a bit more.

Socialism has its place in society but this dispute is an embarrassment to that ethos. I have no remorse for a dwindling group of people who possess neither the intelligence or the wherewithal to see how utterly pointless their 'action' has been and cannot realise that now is the time to accept their still highly paid place in the overall scheme of things. You have a modest pay rise on the table and BA want market rate new crew.

The mere mention of a strike by BASSA will make this nuclear. BA will have the support of all parties to lock the lot of you out and I regrettably hope they do.

[essessdeedee]

Like expense claims you will need to be a little proactive in claiming disruption back.

Can they use that claim given that bassa do not accept disruption. Is this not why they refused to agree we are in a period of disruption?

Its amazing that we have not yet been paid for Dec, yet crew are aware of a deduction that would probably happen in the jan payslip

[JUAN TRIPP]

Ballot paper

Just spoken to my best friend who tells me they received a ballot paper this morning from Unite. Problem is that left Amicus in May, yet have been geting stuff from them for months. Now they have a ballot paper!!. Oh dear, can't believe they are the only one. Another accident waiting to happen

[PC767]

essessdeedee.

Why do you believe Bassa thought there was no disruption? The chair of Bassa was prepared to accept that the agreement was needed - it was - but prefered the correct protocol to be used and would have liked to ensure the agreement was adhered to, unlike last time.

To my mind BA had no intention of adhering to any agreement and were ready to go ahead and do what they wanted at any rate, provided legislation was complied with. What they saw here was another opportunity to rile Bassa and a proportion of it's members, so they did. And those members rose to the bait again. Bassa itself hasn't made a big deal of what it most likely anticipated anyway.

[Wirbelsturm]

Unfortunately as BASSA have tried to smear the company as an egotistic, all bearing bully, I do find it somewhat surprising when, given the track record of agreeing to the DA, they are surprised that BA implement it without the gracious permission of LM.

As someone who was 'stuck' downroute there were many options slowly becoming available that were contrived through e-mail, telephone calls and text messaging. The most difficult thing to sort out was trying to get a concensus as to a way forward from the CC. Believe me we tried hard but getting information in or out of either the company or the Union for the CC is hell.

The final laugh is that why should a Union be able to dictate to the company who and what resources it uses? Surely the Union wants for the good of all not just some scammy protectionism for its 'chosen' workers?

[yotty]

@ PC767. Yup during the recent disruption Engineers who were unable to attend due weather were given the choice of either losing pay, taking leave or lieu days.

[The Blu Riband]

Bassa has repeatedly used the Disruption Agreement as a weapon against BA.

Can you really blame BA for ignoring Bassa now? What are they going to do, strike?

[Far-Ted]

Originally Posted by PC767

The chair of Bassa was prepared to accept that the agreement was needed - it was - but prefered the correct protocol to be used and would have liked to ensure the agreement was adhered to, unlike last time.

PC767 - How was the agreement not adhered too last time?

Having read the Disruption agreement I saw no mention of VCC's or MF crew - this as I understand it was an adhoc condition placed upon BA by the Bassa chairperson. So as I see it BA followed the 'correct protocol', it was Bassa that chose to vary the agreement.