BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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HAHAHAHA,
I think you may be getting confused. You complain about the Cancun being over 12.5 duty hours, however clause "N" allows for duties of 13 hrs as part of the extended duty hours for long haul flying. Which incidentally makes the Cancun duty perfectly acceptable (duty hrs: 12hrs 50mins from what I can work out).
As it says in section "N":
This agreement allows planned duties up to 13:00hours. If the company planned to introduce planned duties in excess of this timing, there would be a full negotiation with the trade union representatives in the appropriate forums.
I think you may be getting confused. You complain about the Cancun being over 12.5 duty hours, however clause "N" allows for duties of 13 hrs as part of the extended duty hours for long haul flying. Which incidentally makes the Cancun duty perfectly acceptable (duty hrs: 12hrs 50mins from what I can work out).
As it says in section "N":
This agreement allows planned duties up to 13:00hours. If the company planned to introduce planned duties in excess of this timing, there would be a full negotiation with the trade union representatives in the appropriate forums.
Last edited by MIDLGW; 26th Oct 2010 at 00:51. Reason: My bold
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HAHAHAHAHAHA,
You just came off a long haul at midnight?? From LGW?? Ok then. Sorry for sounding sarcastic, but have a look at the schedule... Anyways, well done to you for finding 10 wannabe strikers on a LGW crewed aircraft. I still struggle to find one - as only around 20 went on strike during the last rounds.
You just came off a long haul at midnight?? From LGW?? Ok then. Sorry for sounding sarcastic, but have a look at the schedule... Anyways, well done to you for finding 10 wannabe strikers on a LGW crewed aircraft. I still struggle to find one - as only around 20 went on strike during the last rounds.
Other a than a delayed TPA, nothing on record either to indicate a midnight LH arrival!!!
Curious to know how long you've been at LGW, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA??
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Communication?????
Just received my voting papers today for the forthcoming Unite election. Ummm? Very confused here. I left Bassa months ago, got a couple of letters shortly afterwards from Unite saying my payments hadn't gone through - eh yes thats because I'd left you! A few weeks later I got another letter from Unite saying that as I'd not been a member for over 6 months ( not true, it was more like 2-3 months max), I was now officially now not a Unite member. Then a week later, I got the glossy Bassa magazine, the one that mentions all the wars in the last 100 years it seemed.
However 2 weeks ago I got the Unite brochure about the candidates fot their upcoming election, and now today as I've said, I've received the ballot papers.
What a mess and something I wouldn't like to trust in the future. Phoned a friend in a similar position as me and EXACTLY the same scenario has happened to them. Anyone else had this?
However 2 weeks ago I got the Unite brochure about the candidates fot their upcoming election, and now today as I've said, I've received the ballot papers.
What a mess and something I wouldn't like to trust in the future. Phoned a friend in a similar position as me and EXACTLY the same scenario has happened to them. Anyone else had this?
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YEP ! Exactly same thing happened to me -- got unfriendly message from bassa when I asked what was the procedure to stop monthly payment -- still getting all their mail, including unite mail --- makes me think that there could be a problem [AGAIN] with them balloting non-members
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Yes, Juan Tripp. Same here. I left Unite near enough a year ago. I have a collection of "we haven't received payment" type letters. On last count I had 10. Still, the updates and election papers keep coming. For the record, I did send a letter to tell unite I'd left. I sent it twice. 
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Mixed Fleet salary
Could someone explain to me why some crew on here and out on line are infatuated by the proposed salaries of Mixed fleet? They go on and on about it. have just flown with a lovely temp who has got the job as main crew on Mixed fleet. ( Not all got it for the info of any Bassa follower who thinks the job is being given away with a packet of crisps) He said he was FULLY aware of what he was doing, and if it didn't work out, so be it. He commemted that on WW in particular, he has been told a million times of what an idiot he was for taking the new job. As he said, these crew have NO idea whats happening in the real world, how few jobs were out there, despite having experiance in differant jobs and a degree from Uni. He commented also that he found their arrogance unbelievable re the job, and the fact that many, not all, seemed to think the world and BA owed them everything due to the fact of many years loyalty towards the company. As he said, its not loyalty, more like it has suited their situation. So true I thought.
As for not being able to afford to work out of LHR, some of these crew really need to open their eyes when they check in at CRC next time. What wages do you think that ops, CC direct, the security people who check the crew in CRC, are on. Then as you go into T5, what about the staff at EAT, Pret, Itsu, Costa, the DF shops, cleaners, auxilary staff, canteen staff etc etc. Thats just the staff at LHR in T5. Their are 1000's of others who work at LHR who aren't on great wages, YET manage somehow to get on with their lives.
The arrogance of some crew has always astounded me. ' Im alright Jack' seems to be their motto. Thankfully they are in the minority IMO.
As for not being able to afford to work out of LHR, some of these crew really need to open their eyes when they check in at CRC next time. What wages do you think that ops, CC direct, the security people who check the crew in CRC, are on. Then as you go into T5, what about the staff at EAT, Pret, Itsu, Costa, the DF shops, cleaners, auxilary staff, canteen staff etc etc. Thats just the staff at LHR in T5. Their are 1000's of others who work at LHR who aren't on great wages, YET manage somehow to get on with their lives.
The arrogance of some crew has always astounded me.
' Im alright Jack' seems to be their motto. Thankfully they are in the minority IMO.
Last edited by JUAN TRIPP; 26th Oct 2010 at 16:06.
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got unfriendly message from bassa when I asked what was the procedure to stop monthly payment
makes me think that there could be a problem [AGAIN] with them balloting non-members
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To all those ex-Unite members who seem to have received voting papers, the devil in me would suggest voting for acceptance of the offer put forward. The ballot is merely consultative, so in theory could be ignored by the union exec. However, if the union cannot get its act together to sort out the membership lists, then they deserve to be taken to task.It might prove interesting to see how the BASSA executive react if the vote to accept is only slightly higher than the vote to reject. Would they then want to cross check the voting records against current membership and highlight their own shortcomings ??
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HAHA' wrote
Just got off a Gatwick trip and all 10 of us are Voting No! to this latest proposal. After all, there's nothing in it for Gatwick. The flight crew have got their Leisure Agreement. What do we have? Nothing! We're already having our MOA breached with the Maldives itinerary. Cancun is even worse!
Thankfully Gatwick is waking up. We've lost our right to transfer, something our flight crew would NOT tolerate! And now our MOA is being breached further with NO acknowledgement for the breach. Would our flight crew colleagues accept continued breaches to their agreements and say nothing?
Looks like Gatwick is coming into this dispute. And not before time as ALL our futures are involved.
There will be many reasons to vote yes or no, but what you think the flight crew have or have not got should not be one of them!!!. Or maybe your not happy that the offer does not have a 2.61% basic pay cut and reduction of your hourly rate, as the flight crew had?. Dont get sucked in by the spin that other work groups got a better deal, they have all be negotiated by their unions and now unite have negotiated "the best deal" dont be too hasty to throw it away and go forward !!!!..
Just got off a Gatwick trip and all 10 of us are Voting No! to this latest proposal. After all, there's nothing in it for Gatwick. The flight crew have got their Leisure Agreement. What do we have? Nothing! We're already having our MOA breached with the Maldives itinerary. Cancun is even worse!
Thankfully Gatwick is waking up. We've lost our right to transfer, something our flight crew would NOT tolerate! And now our MOA is being breached further with NO acknowledgement for the breach. Would our flight crew colleagues accept continued breaches to their agreements and say nothing?
Looks like Gatwick is coming into this dispute. And not before time as ALL our futures are involved.
There will be many reasons to vote yes or no, but what you think the flight crew have or have not got should not be one of them!!!. Or maybe your not happy that the offer does not have a 2.61% basic pay cut and reduction of your hourly rate, as the flight crew had?. Dont get sucked in by the spin that other work groups got a better deal, they have all be negotiated by their unions and now unite have negotiated "the best deal" dont be too hasty to throw it away and go forward !!!!..
Just got off a Gatwick trip and all 10 of us are Voting No! to this latest proposal. After all, there's nothing in it for Gatwick. The flight crew have got their Leisure Agreement. What do we have? Nothing! We're already having our MOA breached with the Maldives itinerary. Cancun is even worse!
Thankfully Gatwick is waking up. We've lost our right to transfer, something our flight crew would NOT tolerate! And now our MOA is being breached further with NO acknowledgement for the breach. Would our flight crew colleagues accept continued breaches to their agreements and say nothing?
Thankfully Gatwick is waking up. We've lost our right to transfer, something our flight crew would NOT tolerate! And now our MOA is being breached further with NO acknowledgement for the breach. Would our flight crew colleagues accept continued breaches to their agreements and say nothing?
]As has also been stated several times - if MF Ts & Cs are so bad, then folk won't apply. Or, alternatively, BA will have to up the Ts & Cs in an effort to attract the required number of applicants. If MF is as unsustainable as some 'legacy' crew here keep trying to make out, then perhaps BA will be forced to can it completely. But you all know that ain't going to happen.
So enough of the spurious nonsense about "no one can afford to live on that wage". Many do cope on wages like that, quite sucessfully too. And everyone seems to forget that some MF cabin crew will be second-wage earners i.e. they will be bringing in extra icome on top of another wage earner in their family. It is very clear from some statements posted here that many have a sense of entitlement which is is well above their real worth in the wider world.
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Misunderstood?
To all those ex-Unite members who seem to have received voting papers, the devil in me would suggest voting for acceptance of the offer put forward. The ballot is merely consultative, so in theory could be ignored by the union exec. However, if the union cannot get its act together to sort out the membership lists, then they deserve to be taken to task.It might prove interesting to see how the BASSA executive react if the vote to accept is only slightly higher than the vote to reject. Would they then want to cross check the voting records against current membership and highlight their own shortcomings ??
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This takes the biscuit even for BASSA;
On Friday BA will announce interim results which will show that the airline has moved into profit. It is expected that we will have a profit of around £60m for the half year so far. This includes all the costs of the volcano, plus the cabin crew dispute, estimated at over £200m in direct costs, plus well over £1bn lost in forward bookings.
me:Yes it also includes the £300m odd in cost savings the company has managed to NEGOTIATE with their suppliers and employees.
Our union always said that temporary measures were needed for a temporary problem.
me:Which is why you are where you are. The BASSA reps certainly can't count e.g £172m in savings turn out to be £52m.
Walsh insisted that there had been "structural change" and that the airline would never aghain be profitable without major concessions from employees on pay and conditons.
me:Correct and why your staff group will be brought back down to earth FAST. Like the rest of us.
Less than 18 months ago, Walsh stated that BA "was in a fight for survival" and "had only six months to survive".
In only July of last year Walsh said he was worried that BA's front-of-cabin traffic may never "get back to previous volumes'' – or that by the time it does, BA will be on its knees. Such traffic fell by 17 per cent in May and April 2009 and Walsh said he saw no signs of recovery.
Walsh sees no sign of recovery. Walsh sees no sign of recovery. Repeat as necessary..........How wrong can someone in his position be in such a short time?
Quite simply Walsh has attempted to use a downturn to screw his workforce and now it has backfired.
me:No one feels "screwed" despite most groups working for free. the only one's that feel "screwed" are the ones that are yet to put their hand in their pockets and instead have placed their heads in the sand.
BA's underlying financial health is so robust, that it couldn't help making a small operating profit in the third quarter of last year!
me: See above. The airline has turned around because of the contribution made by the rest of us and a lucky recovery in the economy (fragile as it is). Double dip is not some sort of sex game my friend.
Walsh is guilty of talking our airline down. He has depressed the share price by his downbeat comments, which are no more than insider trading in another form. QC John Hendy accused Walsh and BA in the recent High Court action, over the airline deliberately nad artificially enhancing the downturn it knew was coming, by not carrying over profit "from the peak year of 2007-08".
me: "Carrying over profit"? Hendy QC is not an accountant and has little appreciation of how a business works. His carrying over comment is utter rubbish but plays well to the socialist mindset. The BA share price has supported Walsh throughout.
How must those staff who worked for a month for free now feel?
me: Good thanks
They have been taken for mugs.
me: No that's you.
How stupid they look now, with their cheer leading morons on PPRuNe still trying to save face over the jusitifcation for their actions. What were those "books" that BALPA saw showing BA in such a dire financial position?
me: Books your reps couldn't understand so chose not to bother. Very mature. Does anyone think Duncan et al have any intelligence or any wisdom to take a good deal when one's offered?
How inaccurate those figures now appear to be. Who in BALPA is going to take responsibility for leading its members up the garden path, volunteering pay cuts and whipping up anti cabin crew sentiment?
me: The financial state of the airline was beyond discussion. £930mil profit changed within a year to £400mil loss. That's the swing that was risking all our futures. If other departments "hate" cabin crew strikers it's entirely the fault of the union and it's followers. You have NO support within the airline or outside it.
Where is the Airbus Captain? He has some explaining to do.
me: Probably working on his libel case against your disgraceful union. I hope you have large coffers.
Walsh is "entirely responsible" for his actions which has caused BA to lose so much money, over an unnecessary confrontation with his front line staff.
me: Some of his malignant front line staff. Should have been done 10 years ago as he recently said.
Don't forget BA wanted £140m in savings.....that was NOT the difference between the two sides which was closer to £10m.
me: Still short though hey? A target is a target.
So what now? Revenge is a dish best served cold. Reject the latest proposal.
me: Revenge hey? Enjoy your P45 and working in the real world.The end is nigh.
On Friday BA will announce interim results which will show that the airline has moved into profit. It is expected that we will have a profit of around £60m for the half year so far. This includes all the costs of the volcano, plus the cabin crew dispute, estimated at over £200m in direct costs, plus well over £1bn lost in forward bookings.
me:Yes it also includes the £300m odd in cost savings the company has managed to NEGOTIATE with their suppliers and employees.
Our union always said that temporary measures were needed for a temporary problem.
me:Which is why you are where you are. The BASSA reps certainly can't count e.g £172m in savings turn out to be £52m.
Walsh insisted that there had been "structural change" and that the airline would never aghain be profitable without major concessions from employees on pay and conditons.
me:Correct and why your staff group will be brought back down to earth FAST. Like the rest of us.
Less than 18 months ago, Walsh stated that BA "was in a fight for survival" and "had only six months to survive".
In only July of last year Walsh said he was worried that BA's front-of-cabin traffic may never "get back to previous volumes'' – or that by the time it does, BA will be on its knees. Such traffic fell by 17 per cent in May and April 2009 and Walsh said he saw no signs of recovery.
Walsh sees no sign of recovery. Walsh sees no sign of recovery. Repeat as necessary..........How wrong can someone in his position be in such a short time?
Quite simply Walsh has attempted to use a downturn to screw his workforce and now it has backfired.
me:No one feels "screwed" despite most groups working for free. the only one's that feel "screwed" are the ones that are yet to put their hand in their pockets and instead have placed their heads in the sand.
BA's underlying financial health is so robust, that it couldn't help making a small operating profit in the third quarter of last year!
me: See above. The airline has turned around because of the contribution made by the rest of us and a lucky recovery in the economy (fragile as it is). Double dip is not some sort of sex game my friend.
Walsh is guilty of talking our airline down. He has depressed the share price by his downbeat comments, which are no more than insider trading in another form. QC John Hendy accused Walsh and BA in the recent High Court action, over the airline deliberately nad artificially enhancing the downturn it knew was coming, by not carrying over profit "from the peak year of 2007-08".
me: "Carrying over profit"? Hendy QC is not an accountant and has little appreciation of how a business works. His carrying over comment is utter rubbish but plays well to the socialist mindset. The BA share price has supported Walsh throughout.
How must those staff who worked for a month for free now feel?
me: Good thanks
They have been taken for mugs.
me: No that's you.
How stupid they look now, with their cheer leading morons on PPRuNe still trying to save face over the jusitifcation for their actions. What were those "books" that BALPA saw showing BA in such a dire financial position?
me: Books your reps couldn't understand so chose not to bother. Very mature. Does anyone think Duncan et al have any intelligence or any wisdom to take a good deal when one's offered?
How inaccurate those figures now appear to be. Who in BALPA is going to take responsibility for leading its members up the garden path, volunteering pay cuts and whipping up anti cabin crew sentiment?
me: The financial state of the airline was beyond discussion. £930mil profit changed within a year to £400mil loss. That's the swing that was risking all our futures. If other departments "hate" cabin crew strikers it's entirely the fault of the union and it's followers. You have NO support within the airline or outside it.
Where is the Airbus Captain? He has some explaining to do.
me: Probably working on his libel case against your disgraceful union. I hope you have large coffers.
Walsh is "entirely responsible" for his actions which has caused BA to lose so much money, over an unnecessary confrontation with his front line staff.
me: Some of his malignant front line staff. Should have been done 10 years ago as he recently said.
Don't forget BA wanted £140m in savings.....that was NOT the difference between the two sides which was closer to £10m.
me: Still short though hey? A target is a target.
So what now? Revenge is a dish best served cold. Reject the latest proposal.
me: Revenge hey? Enjoy your P45 and working in the real world.The end is nigh.
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Juan Tugoh
Ahh.. yes. I did misunderstand. Nevertheless, if Unite's (and presumably BASSA's) membership records are in such disarray, what is there to prevent an ex-union person from voting in the consultative ballot?
Ahh.. yes. I did misunderstand. Nevertheless, if Unite's (and presumably BASSA's) membership records are in such disarray, what is there to prevent an ex-union person from voting in the consultative ballot?
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Disarray? I think it will take at least 5 years work and a load of cash to get the membership records to the heights of disarray!
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Lady Fly Fly
Maybe it wasn't running at the time but the 75 bus route from Slough bus station has a service that departs at 4:15 - arrives at Heathrow Central area by 4:45. Oh and route X25 from Reading departs at 04:00 arriving T5 at 04:38 Last bus home leaves after midnight.
As far as the other costs you cite. I covered phone in my original figures. Gas and electricity would be no more than £50 per month combined - my first purchase was a studio flat and I know ho w reaonable they can be on fuel. TV licence - £11 per month, Water about the same, council tax about £50. All told I reckon you'd have a total bill of just over £1000 per month in outgoings bar downroute eating. Mind you, if you are eating out to that degree, my allowance of £50 a week for food ought to be reduced.
Yes, it is tight, but doable and I've lived on less.
Maybe it wasn't running at the time but the 75 bus route from Slough bus station has a service that departs at 4:15 - arrives at Heathrow Central area by 4:45. Oh and route X25 from Reading departs at 04:00 arriving T5 at 04:38 Last bus home leaves after midnight.
As far as the other costs you cite. I covered phone in my original figures. Gas and electricity would be no more than £50 per month combined - my first purchase was a studio flat and I know ho w reaonable they can be on fuel. TV licence - £11 per month, Water about the same, council tax about £50. All told I reckon you'd have a total bill of just over £1000 per month in outgoings bar downroute eating. Mind you, if you are eating out to that degree, my allowance of £50 a week for food ought to be reduced.
Yes, it is tight, but doable and I've lived on less.
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Lady Fly Fly,
I am just about to start as MF Crew and raed your post and did some of my own research
Just so we are clear here -
Basic is £11,000 - take home per month from that will be £793
I will then earn an absolute maximum of 2500 duty hours per year at £2.40 minus tax (63% Notional 87p tax free) works out at £1.92 after tax equalling a max of £4800 PA = £400 pcm
So my max take home is £1192
Accomodation £450
Council Tax £100
Travel Costs Zone 3-6 £98.40
Mobile Phone £30
Food £270 (3 meals a day at £3 per meal)
Gas £20
Electric £20
TV Licence £12
Leaves me £6.40 per day left over to clothe myself, have a social life, buy a coffee etc etc
I am just about to start as MF Crew and raed your post and did some of my own research
Just so we are clear here -
Basic is £11,000 - take home per month from that will be £793
I will then earn an absolute maximum of 2500 duty hours per year at £2.40 minus tax (63% Notional 87p tax free) works out at £1.92 after tax equalling a max of £4800 PA = £400 pcm
So my max take home is £1192
Accomodation £450
Council Tax £100
Travel Costs Zone 3-6 £98.40
Mobile Phone £30
Food £270 (3 meals a day at £3 per meal)
Gas £20
Electric £20
TV Licence £12
Leaves me £6.40 per day left over to clothe myself, have a social life, buy a coffee etc etc
Junior trash
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I will then earn an absolute maximum of 2500 duty hours per year at £2.40 minus tax (63% Notional 87p tax free) works out at £1.92 after tax equalling a max of £4800 PA = £400 pcm
We'll gloss over the dubious tax rate. (you've 100% taxed allowances at a rate of 20%)
As you would know if you really were MF crew you would be paid the hourly rate from check in to check out not just duty hours. So there is no "absolute maximum" indeed you could check in on 1st Jan and check out on 31st dec and earn 8760 duty hours. If you're expecting to be at work or on nightstops for only 28% of the year you're going to be disappointed.
And why do you need a full month travelcard? You wont be doing more than 10 return trips a month at £1.30-£2.70 per single journey. So even if every journey is in peak hours (highly unlikely) thats only £54.
And you would have full knowledge of the performance pay scheme too. But you seem to have missed that out.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 27th Oct 2010 at 08:10.