BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Hotel Mode
You're not anything you say you are...
We'll gloss over the dubious tax rate. (you've 100% taxed allowances at a rate of 20%)
We'll gloss over the dubious tax rate. (you've 100% taxed allowances at a rate of 20%)
As you would know if you really were MF crew you would be paid the hourly rate from check in to check out not just duty hours. So there is no "absolute maximum" indeed you could check in on 1st Jan and check out on 31st dec and earn 8760 duty hours. If you're expecting to be at work or on nightstops for only 28% of the year you're going to be disappointed.
And why do you need a full month travelcard? You wont be doing more than 10 return trips a month at £1.30-£2.70 per single journey. So even if every journey is in peak hours (highly unlikely) thats only £54.
And you would have full knowledge of the performance pay scheme too. But you seem to have missed that out.
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Ca we please stop talking about what MF are potentially earning and if it is enough to live on.
And as a side note most young people are still living at home with their parents as with any career it is difficult to afford to move out of the family home at the moment.
And as a side note most young people are still living at home with their parents as with any career it is difficult to afford to move out of the family home at the moment.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Please stop going on about mixed fleet pay, it is low but remember it is on a par with or higher than other uk airlines.
If it's too low then people will leave, that is something that will get addressed once attrition rates and performance results are known.
The irony is that this dispute is not about mixed fleet PAY, it is about mixed fleet taking high earning trips that could impact on the already very high wages (granted, not all cases) of legacy crew.
legacy crew bleating about MF pay is just a diversion to make their cause look like it has a charitable purpose.
As as been stated many times before, if current crew want MF on better pay then they could easily fund it from efficiency improvements themselves.
They wont because they want every penny for themselves.
Current crew payments are out of control, especially with current european exchange rates, 3 day shorthaul tours can be worth over £500, look at a Narita or Singapore, £1000 in variable for a single trip is not far off what mixed fleet will get for a whole month!
Current crew costs are the reason for the birth of mixed fleet.
For what it's worth I was shocked at how low the new salaries are, I feel there will be much resentment when they discover the true disparity with their collegues working from the same base.
Mixed fleet is here, get over it, perhaps current crew could channel some of their energy into improvements to those conditions instead of selfishly trying to hang on to everything they have.
To any mixed fleet crew in waiting we are all very excited at your impending arrival and will welcome you with open arms, give it your best and hopefully it will be a career worth having.
God knows, BA needs some new blood and a change in attitude.
If it's too low then people will leave, that is something that will get addressed once attrition rates and performance results are known.
The irony is that this dispute is not about mixed fleet PAY, it is about mixed fleet taking high earning trips that could impact on the already very high wages (granted, not all cases) of legacy crew.
legacy crew bleating about MF pay is just a diversion to make their cause look like it has a charitable purpose.
As as been stated many times before, if current crew want MF on better pay then they could easily fund it from efficiency improvements themselves.
They wont because they want every penny for themselves.
Current crew payments are out of control, especially with current european exchange rates, 3 day shorthaul tours can be worth over £500, look at a Narita or Singapore, £1000 in variable for a single trip is not far off what mixed fleet will get for a whole month!
Current crew costs are the reason for the birth of mixed fleet.
For what it's worth I was shocked at how low the new salaries are, I feel there will be much resentment when they discover the true disparity with their collegues working from the same base.
Mixed fleet is here, get over it, perhaps current crew could channel some of their energy into improvements to those conditions instead of selfishly trying to hang on to everything they have.
To any mixed fleet crew in waiting we are all very excited at your impending arrival and will welcome you with open arms, give it your best and hopefully it will be a career worth having.
God knows, BA needs some new blood and a change in attitude.
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Plodding Along -
Why would you feel that?
I am 'New' contract and have been for many years. I earn much less than my colleagues working alongside me, let alone on a different fleet, on the old contract. I dont resent them.
I too would welcome new recruits and not just in the cabin crew area!
I feel there will be much resentment when they discover the true disparity with their collegues working from the same base.
I am 'New' contract and have been for many years. I earn much less than my colleagues working alongside me, let alone on a different fleet, on the old contract. I dont resent them.
I too would welcome new recruits and not just in the cabin crew area!
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Enough is enough
I have done a variety of jobs for much less that 18-20k per year and always made ends meet. This is a good salary, end of story, if i'm wrong then MF will not take off. Time will tell...
There is a rather important ballot going on at the moment, maybe time would be better spent discussing the pro's and con's of the latest deal, this might actually be useful to people who haven't made up their mind yet.
There is a rather important ballot going on at the moment, maybe time would be better spent discussing the pro's and con's of the latest deal, this might actually be useful to people who haven't made up their mind yet.
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MFCREW,
That indeed doesnt sound like alot of money but you havent mentioned the 'bonus related pay' based on performance which I thought was also included in the pay packet.
I was told the other day by one of my managers that this element of pay was going to be a sizeable percentage of your overall package so that there was a large incentive to go the extra mile.
This surely wil push up your pay noticeably.
Also please bear in mind that your calculation of close to £1200 (without the bonus) is what my wife takes home regularly as full time LGW crew after 4 years in BA. This month was a better month than average and she took home about £1350. The turnover is not an issue at LGW and crew there have been earning these sorts of figures now for years. Yes its hard for them and yes they wont be jumping on the property ladder antime soon but they enjoy their jobs and generally have a great time working for BA.
That indeed doesnt sound like alot of money but you havent mentioned the 'bonus related pay' based on performance which I thought was also included in the pay packet.
I was told the other day by one of my managers that this element of pay was going to be a sizeable percentage of your overall package so that there was a large incentive to go the extra mile.
This surely wil push up your pay noticeably.
Also please bear in mind that your calculation of close to £1200 (without the bonus) is what my wife takes home regularly as full time LGW crew after 4 years in BA. This month was a better month than average and she took home about £1350. The turnover is not an issue at LGW and crew there have been earning these sorts of figures now for years. Yes its hard for them and yes they wont be jumping on the property ladder antime soon but they enjoy their jobs and generally have a great time working for BA.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Ploddin Along
lets face it ,if it were possible , BA would probably jump at the chance to get rid of all flight crew,and get a load of less experienced pilots at half the price.I am sure that there are many of pilots out there who would sell their mothers to get on BA paylist.Maybe its only because the current pilots stick together behind their union that they have not done this.
If ba tried to recruit new pilots on rediculosly low pay (even if there were hundreds who applied as there is apparently a derth of trained piolts out there at the moment),current flightcrew would be up in arms.
lets face it ,if it were possible , BA would probably jump at the chance to get rid of all flight crew,and get a load of less experienced pilots at half the price.I am sure that there are many of pilots out there who would sell their mothers to get on BA paylist.Maybe its only because the current pilots stick together behind their union that they have not done this.
If ba tried to recruit new pilots on rediculosly low pay (even if there were hundreds who applied as there is apparently a derth of trained piolts out there at the moment),current flightcrew would be up in arms.
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Clounn9ner
it is a physical impossibility for crew on MF to be better off than crew at lgw.Their trips are shorter (3 days max.) for, at least the next six months,when they are away they get neither their breakfast or the overnight allowance which at lgw can add 160 pounds a month.Plus you have to pay for your own woollies to keep warm in St .Petersburgh in the winter.
it is a physical impossibility for crew on MF to be better off than crew at lgw.Their trips are shorter (3 days max.) for, at least the next six months,when they are away they get neither their breakfast or the overnight allowance which at lgw can add 160 pounds a month.Plus you have to pay for your own woollies to keep warm in St .Petersburgh in the winter.
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I humbly propose a new thread called “MF – Living Wage or not?” be created and this particular line of debate can carry on in there.
It’s nothing but a distraction created to take eyes off the actual ball and many are falling for it I believe.
From my perspective the benefits or not, the ability to live on ££ or not is of no concern to me whatsoever, in the same way that I don’t worry if the T5 cleaners are earning a living wage.
I am far more focused on BASSA's current IA, ballots, etc
(I do actually worry about the cleaners, and many more, but it doesn’t relate to my own particular circumstances and were they to read some of the last few pages they would no doubt roll their eyes somewhat)
It’s nothing but a distraction created to take eyes off the actual ball and many are falling for it I believe.
From my perspective the benefits or not, the ability to live on ££ or not is of no concern to me whatsoever, in the same way that I don’t worry if the T5 cleaners are earning a living wage.
I am far more focused on BASSA's current IA, ballots, etc
(I do actually worry about the cleaners, and many more, but it doesn’t relate to my own particular circumstances and were they to read some of the last few pages they would no doubt roll their eyes somewhat)
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If somebody wants to open a new thread on MF T&Cs, please feel free.
I think it might be short lived though, because certain people will insist on not sticking to the subject and dragging the current dispute into a new thread.
For now, please lay that particular subject to rest on this thread.
Thank you.
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flapsforty
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I think it might be short lived though, because certain people will insist on not sticking to the subject and dragging the current dispute into a new thread.
For now, please lay that particular subject to rest on this thread.
Thank you.
_______________
flapsforty
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There are too many loopholes in this proposal.
Routes will not be transferred on commercial need or on a fair basis. They will be transferred based solely on how much they cost to operate. In a few years time you can be certain that those of our on WW will be operating mostly to India.
Meanwhile, Willie Walsh will be looking at having his salary increased by 22% when BA and IB merge.
Routes will not be transferred on commercial need or on a fair basis. They will be transferred based solely on how much they cost to operate. In a few years time you can be certain that those of our on WW will be operating mostly to India.
Meanwhile, Willie Walsh will be looking at having his salary increased by 22% when BA and IB merge.
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Originally Posted by MissM
Routes will not be transferred on commercial need or on a fair basis. They will be transferred based solely on how much they cost to operate.
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Yes - I have read in 'The Wall Street Journal' that WW will get a pay rise of 22% in his new role.
Has anyone seen this in the British Press? Maybe he will confirm this when our latest profits are announced.
Has anyone seen this in the British Press? Maybe he will confirm this when our latest profits are announced.
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Lady Fly Fly.
Reward based upon results.
If WW gets 22% because a) he has saved the company money and b) stopped BASSA/CC running the airline. I would suggest he deserves every penny.
Just a thought, apart from having your SEP traning, smiling (I assume you do?) at our customers what exactly have you done to increase our profitability.
You could say that you behave in a proffesional manner and therefore attract return/new customers. Well, looking at the seat factor (and remember to adjust for less a/c + routes), the bad PR BA has had due to crew behaving like children and jeering at our own aircraft and chanting 'scabin crew' and the GPM results....well as I said, 'you could say that' - but perhaps it may be misleading. At most you have done what all other departments have done - no more, no less.
Reward based upon results.
If WW gets 22% because a) he has saved the company money and b) stopped BASSA/CC running the airline. I would suggest he deserves every penny.
Just a thought, apart from having your SEP traning, smiling (I assume you do?) at our customers what exactly have you done to increase our profitability.
You could say that you behave in a proffesional manner and therefore attract return/new customers. Well, looking at the seat factor (and remember to adjust for less a/c + routes), the bad PR BA has had due to crew behaving like children and jeering at our own aircraft and chanting 'scabin crew' and the GPM results....well as I said, 'you could say that' - but perhaps it may be misleading. At most you have done what all other departments have done - no more, no less.
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The personalisation of this dispute is a classic BASSA technique, MissM. Are you aware that you are probably being expertly manipulated by the BASSA heirarchy? Whilst BASSA achieves the worst possible outcome for crew short of 90-day notice, you are worrying about the CEO's payrise. 