BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Both Hot Wings and Flying Soldier are correct, the well motivated NO voters will always turn out and vote, probably about 3500 of them, more perhaps if this ballot unlike the last one is given a decent amount of time.
On the subject of time BASSA must be in a quandary, they need to start the ballot process as early as Friday the 12th November if indeed they are to strike at Christmas (holiday season
) (1 weeks notice of ballot, 4weeks balloting,1 weeks notice of strike action)
That is less than 3 weeks away, the ERB are sending each BASSA/CC89 member a code to vote electronically, that will take time, especially for those commuter in Europe and other far flung places. If BASSA have a short balloting period as last time, then the turn out will be poor, and you could argue that BASSA will be discriminating against their very own overseas members, and we could not have that
With reference to Litebulbs link to cheapflights.co.uk, that rumour has been doing the rounds since July in various guises. Unless BA settled on the steps of the court house, with a confidentiality cause included I can't see that it is true, and would further consider it a plant , in order to manipulate a NO vote, because remember BASSA can't really officially influence voters, but unofficially..........
On the subject of time BASSA must be in a quandary, they need to start the ballot process as early as Friday the 12th November if indeed they are to strike at Christmas (holiday season
) (1 weeks notice of ballot, 4weeks balloting,1 weeks notice of strike action)That is less than 3 weeks away, the ERB are sending each BASSA/CC89 member a code to vote electronically, that will take time, especially for those commuter in Europe and other far flung places. If BASSA have a short balloting period as last time, then the turn out will be poor, and you could argue that BASSA will be discriminating against their very own overseas members, and we could not have that
With reference to Litebulbs link to cheapflights.co.uk, that rumour has been doing the rounds since July in various guises. Unless BA settled on the steps of the court house, with a confidentiality cause included I can't see that it is true, and would further consider it a plant , in order to manipulate a NO vote, because remember BASSA can't really officially influence voters, but unofficially..........
Last edited by Pornpants1; 23rd Oct 2010 at 10:57.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is the rumour from elsewhere posted as fact; read into to it what you want.
I think this is problematic as I do not believe that court rulings are "hush hush", as all rulings can be used as precedent - there is no such thing as secret law. I could see an out of court settlement with a confidentiality clause but that would not set a precedent and could not be relied on or used as a lever for any other case.
So either BA would be in breach of the law, and why would the union be keeping quiet about that? or no court case was heard. The "facts" do not stack up and I think this smacks more of a desire for it to be so rather than there being any truth in this rumour. There is logic in there being an out of court settlement as the area of law that would be being tested here is perhaps one that BA do not want a definite answer to.
Having first hand knowledge of this dispute (my wife is BA crew), these are the unreported facts:
Around 3 weeks ago a “hush hush” test case was instigated by 2 of the estimated 7000 cabin crew who lost their staff travel due to taking part in a legal industrial dispute. The 2 cabin crew argued that BA had broken the law by actively discriminating against them during a lawful and legitimate strike.
Subsequently the court found in the favour of the 2 cabin crew, siting that BA had indeed discriminated against the crew, in contravention of industrial law.
BA have been instructed by the court to pay £10000 to each of the 2 crew. I'd suggest that BA management aren’t softening their approach, they merely have been backed into a corner. Walsh knows that if he did not make moves to reinstate staff travel he would have had one almighty litigation bill – (7000 crew who lost staff travel x £10k = £70m payout).
Around 3 weeks ago a “hush hush” test case was instigated by 2 of the estimated 7000 cabin crew who lost their staff travel due to taking part in a legal industrial dispute. The 2 cabin crew argued that BA had broken the law by actively discriminating against them during a lawful and legitimate strike.
Subsequently the court found in the favour of the 2 cabin crew, siting that BA had indeed discriminated against the crew, in contravention of industrial law.
BA have been instructed by the court to pay £10000 to each of the 2 crew. I'd suggest that BA management aren’t softening their approach, they merely have been backed into a corner. Walsh knows that if he did not make moves to reinstate staff travel he would have had one almighty litigation bill – (7000 crew who lost staff travel x £10k = £70m payout).
So either BA would be in breach of the law, and why would the union be keeping quiet about that? or no court case was heard. The "facts" do not stack up and I think this smacks more of a desire for it to be so rather than there being any truth in this rumour. There is logic in there being an out of court settlement as the area of law that would be being tested here is perhaps one that BA do not want a definite answer to.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: in a house
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again this highlights the bassa mindset of wishing for something to be real.
Look at the indicators -
"my wife is crew" so this is heresay (or galleyFM)
"hush hush test case by 2 crew" - so what happened to bassa's day in court then? Or even 'crewdefence'?
'a court finding and awarding 10k per crew member' does this even sound realistic?
And yet..... neither bassa or BA mention it, at any level.
Look at the indicators -
"my wife is crew" so this is heresay (or galleyFM)
"hush hush test case by 2 crew" - so what happened to bassa's day in court then? Or even 'crewdefence'?
'a court finding and awarding 10k per crew member' does this even sound realistic?
And yet..... neither bassa or BA mention it, at any level.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: LAM/BIG/BNN hold
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA's email ...
Dear colleague
If you are a member of Unite, you will soon be asked to vote on an offer that could end our long running dispute.
The offer keeps many of the things you have told me are important to you including assurances for your existing terms and conditions, a commitment that Heathrow crew will not lose out when Mixed Fleet begins, and a two year pay deal worth up to 5.9% from 2011. At the same time, it secures substantial permanent cost savings for the company.
In a genuine move by us to pave the way for an agreement, from next Tuesday (October 26) we are re-introducing ID90 staff travel for crew who went on strike with a reset date of joining of October 21, 2010. Full reinstatement in 2013 is subject to the conditions set out in the letter to Brendan Barber.
Unite has said that this offer is “the best that can be achieved through negotiation in the current climate”. I hope we can all agree that the time has come to move forward.
If you have any questions about the offer, I will be hosting a web chat next Tuesday 26 October and you can post your questions the day before. I would also encourage you to speak with your crew team manager.
Regards
Bill Francis
Head of IFCE
THE DEAL AT A GLANCE
Pay - two years of guaranteed pay rises worth up to 5.9 per cent from February 2011, on top of annual increments
Terms and conditions – current terms and conditions are protected for current crew including promotions, transfers and part time contracts in current fleets.
Variable pay – a top up scheme guarantees Heathrow crew cannot earn less than 2009-10 average variable earnings for their grade and fleet but they can earn more, as long as they don’t go on strike in that year.
Gatwick – possible opportunities for more long haul flying
Disciplinary cases – a review and binding decision by ACAS for a limited number of disciplinary cases at the end of the normal internal process
Cost savings secured – reduced cabin crew complements announced in October 2009, different terms and conditions for new Heathrow crew on Mixed Fleet and a two year basic pay freeze have delivered substantial permanent savings
Customer focus – changes to the worldwide disruption agreement to do our best for our customers and cabin crew
Working together – a joint commitment to review ways of working and union facilities.
If you are a member of Unite, you will soon be asked to vote on an offer that could end our long running dispute.
The offer keeps many of the things you have told me are important to you including assurances for your existing terms and conditions, a commitment that Heathrow crew will not lose out when Mixed Fleet begins, and a two year pay deal worth up to 5.9% from 2011. At the same time, it secures substantial permanent cost savings for the company.
In a genuine move by us to pave the way for an agreement, from next Tuesday (October 26) we are re-introducing ID90 staff travel for crew who went on strike with a reset date of joining of October 21, 2010. Full reinstatement in 2013 is subject to the conditions set out in the letter to Brendan Barber.
Unite has said that this offer is “the best that can be achieved through negotiation in the current climate”. I hope we can all agree that the time has come to move forward.
If you have any questions about the offer, I will be hosting a web chat next Tuesday 26 October and you can post your questions the day before. I would also encourage you to speak with your crew team manager.
Regards
Bill Francis
Head of IFCE
THE DEAL AT A GLANCE
Pay - two years of guaranteed pay rises worth up to 5.9 per cent from February 2011, on top of annual increments
Terms and conditions – current terms and conditions are protected for current crew including promotions, transfers and part time contracts in current fleets.
Variable pay – a top up scheme guarantees Heathrow crew cannot earn less than 2009-10 average variable earnings for their grade and fleet but they can earn more, as long as they don’t go on strike in that year.
Gatwick – possible opportunities for more long haul flying
Disciplinary cases – a review and binding decision by ACAS for a limited number of disciplinary cases at the end of the normal internal process
Cost savings secured – reduced cabin crew complements announced in October 2009, different terms and conditions for new Heathrow crew on Mixed Fleet and a two year basic pay freeze have delivered substantial permanent savings
Customer focus – changes to the worldwide disruption agreement to do our best for our customers and cabin crew
Working together – a joint commitment to review ways of working and union facilities.
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Caribbean Boy has asked us to upload their PDF files of the offer so that all contributors here can read it for themselves.
To facilitate factual discussion:
Brendan Barber covering letter.
Offer to reach agreement between British Airways and Unite the Union
To facilitate factual discussion:
Brendan Barber covering letter.
Offer to reach agreement between British Airways and Unite the Union
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I read the offer, it looks reasonable, but it does not affect me. There are protections for the present and future, so if there is a potential threat in it, it needs to be highlighted. But that need is just for the convenience of this thread and the continuing discussions.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Age: 60
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time to move on...
Not sure I agree with the arguement that the NO voters are still as strong as they were back in June/July, when the last offer was voted upon, although I do agree it was too short a voting period, but I think a good proportion of the non-voters was more due to apathy than inability to vote by the deadline.
3 months on that has been little done by BASSA to prove they are any more in control of the situation, a pointless branch meeting in September was for what reason? Unite are not in the mood now to be fiting a lost battle over changes that every other group in BA has agreed and signed up to. Granted there are many differences, as there are types of contract and working agreements, so it could never have been a 1-size fits all solution.
The deal appears fair, and whilst ST is not being returned in full until 2013, I think it is as UNITE thinks, the best deal available. Another strike, when ever it is planned will not change BA resolve, there is too much at stake here, and the vast majority of BA employees have taken the pain and accepted change. Time for BASSA cabin crew to agree their part in the plan to ensure BA's continued success.
3 months on that has been little done by BASSA to prove they are any more in control of the situation, a pointless branch meeting in September was for what reason? Unite are not in the mood now to be fiting a lost battle over changes that every other group in BA has agreed and signed up to. Granted there are many differences, as there are types of contract and working agreements, so it could never have been a 1-size fits all solution.
The deal appears fair, and whilst ST is not being returned in full until 2013, I think it is as UNITE thinks, the best deal available. Another strike, when ever it is planned will not change BA resolve, there is too much at stake here, and the vast majority of BA employees have taken the pain and accepted change. Time for BASSA cabin crew to agree their part in the plan to ensure BA's continued success.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cork
Age: 45
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the court ruled in favour of the 2 employees then it must first have determined that staff travel rights are in fact contractual. This opens up a whole new can of worms for not just cabin crew, but airline employees in general, which is in no one's best interest only the taxman.
But as someone mentioned, there is no such thing as a 'secret court'.
But as someone mentioned, there is no such thing as a 'secret court'.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I the only one who thinks this story of 2 cabin crew winning a court case is a load of cobblers. If they had, the whole world would know about it.
Last edited by swalesboy; 23rd Oct 2010 at 19:49.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have been reading this forum for a while but now want to post on behalf of myself and many others who dont generally post!
BA Cabin Crew
BASSA MEMBER
PROUDLY TOOK IA IN ALL WAVES
LOST STAFF TRAVEL
New offer!!!
.................Will I vote YES
.................Will I accept NO
.................Will I strike again YES YES YES!!
Dont ever believe the fight in us has gone!!
BA Cabin Crew
BASSA MEMBER
PROUDLY TOOK IA IN ALL WAVES
LOST STAFF TRAVEL
New offer!!!
.................Will I vote YES
.................Will I accept NO
.................Will I strike again YES YES YES!!
Dont ever believe the fight in us has gone!!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am I the only one who thinks this story of 2 cabin crew winning a court case is a load of cobblers. If they had, the whole world would know about it.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: spain
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
staff travel
If this report of a successful court case about re-instatement and compensation of £10,000for loss of staff travel to two crew members is true, then BASSA/UNITE would be shouting fron the rooftops ! But they are not 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lady Fly Fly
Respect your point of view, its your perogative of course.
A few serious question though. Are you not concerned that if you do go on strike again that a) life in BA world will go on without you and b) you may well not be protected by law and could face dismissal with no legal recourse?
Genuine questions.
Look forward to your answers.
Respect your point of view, its your perogative of course.
A few serious question though. Are you not concerned that if you do go on strike again that a) life in BA world will go on without you and b) you may well not be protected by law and could face dismissal with no legal recourse?
Genuine questions.
Look forward to your answers.
Secret test case, in a court? And BASSA aren't whipping themselves into a frenzy about it? Nonsense! It has all the hallmarks of another DH fairy tale.
Those who want to believe it, and who want to vote against BA's offer, need to think carefully about what their next step is, and also about what options are open to BA. I have a reasonable idea of BA's next route - do you? Are you brave enough to run with DH's rhetoric, and vote against BA's offer! Please remember that DH has nothing, absolutely nothing, to lose (he's already lost his BA job .......!). 'No' voters may have something to gain - an envelope with a 90-day notice in it. Do you feel brave enough to face that? Without any support from Unite? Unite have publicly stated that it is the best offer you are going to get. Period. So, are you going to front up and reject it? Are you?
Best of luck ...... you are all going to need it.
Those who want to believe it, and who want to vote against BA's offer, need to think carefully about what their next step is, and also about what options are open to BA. I have a reasonable idea of BA's next route - do you? Are you brave enough to run with DH's rhetoric, and vote against BA's offer! Please remember that DH has nothing, absolutely nothing, to lose (he's already lost his BA job .......!). 'No' voters may have something to gain - an envelope with a 90-day notice in it. Do you feel brave enough to face that? Without any support from Unite? Unite have publicly stated that it is the best offer you are going to get. Period. So, are you going to front up and reject it? Are you?
Best of luck ...... you are all going to need it.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA could also help put this court case rumour to bed by coming out and denying it, and also challenge anyone to prove them wrong. Shouldn't be difficult. How silly would BA look if they did deny it and then someone produces the documents.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't feed the trolls!
There are many, many 1st posters on here who all post the same stuff in support of BASSA. Lets be honest, they are, in all likelyhood, the same few diehards who just rotate names and posters to ensure that the numbers appear greater than they are. Pretty much like the use of the Socialist Worker Party and the NUT teachers used to bolster physical numbers during the sojourn at BFC.
There are also a few who defend their position, albeit often without substantiation, but at least they debate the situation.
The company will be able to operate just about a full schedule without the BASSA hardcore IF it comes to more IA. They have been pushed down, by their colleagues who recognise this action for the petty, vindictive power struggle that it is, into relative obscurtity.
Always remember that the core of this dispute is that one person, that is one, single person, on a LH fleet or a SH fleet, has been removed from the service. Requiring, God forbid, that the CSD comes out of their office and takes an active part in the service. How terribly demanding. We (within the company) all know that the struggle lies between the ability of BASSA to hold the reigns of power, through the threat of IA, over the company and ensure that the cash cow they have enjoyed since privatisation remains intact.
The public sector is set to lose 500,000 jobs! Not work one down for a bit thus leading to a stressful life, they will be out of a job in the world where BASSA tells us everything is getting better! BASSA still can't see this and continue to bleat that the company is doing fantastic and no-body needed to give anything.
It's about time that BASSA got a firm kick up the backside and the responsibilty for operating, timings, diversion and working hours was given firmly back to the Captain from whom it should never have been taken Mr Colin Marshall.
There are many, many 1st posters on here who all post the same stuff in support of BASSA. Lets be honest, they are, in all likelyhood, the same few diehards who just rotate names and posters to ensure that the numbers appear greater than they are. Pretty much like the use of the Socialist Worker Party and the NUT teachers used to bolster physical numbers during the sojourn at BFC.
There are also a few who defend their position, albeit often without substantiation, but at least they debate the situation.
The company will be able to operate just about a full schedule without the BASSA hardcore IF it comes to more IA. They have been pushed down, by their colleagues who recognise this action for the petty, vindictive power struggle that it is, into relative obscurtity.
Always remember that the core of this dispute is that one person, that is one, single person, on a LH fleet or a SH fleet, has been removed from the service. Requiring, God forbid, that the CSD comes out of their office and takes an active part in the service. How terribly demanding. We (within the company) all know that the struggle lies between the ability of BASSA to hold the reigns of power, through the threat of IA, over the company and ensure that the cash cow they have enjoyed since privatisation remains intact.
The public sector is set to lose 500,000 jobs! Not work one down for a bit thus leading to a stressful life, they will be out of a job in the world where BASSA tells us everything is getting better! BASSA still can't see this and continue to bleat that the company is doing fantastic and no-body needed to give anything.
It's about time that BASSA got a firm kick up the backside and the responsibilty for operating, timings, diversion and working hours was given firmly back to the Captain from whom it should never have been taken Mr Colin Marshall.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pcf,
It's not difficult to note down and copy a screen name is it?
Since when did EF CSD's have an Office? Before you judge please read the post carefully, the post referred to LH CSD's not those on EF who, as you so carefully pointed out, have always worked the cabin.
Unless of course you consider the forward toilet on the 321 as your office as I have seen done before in the past much to my amusement.
It's not difficult to note down and copy a screen name is it?
Since when did EF CSD's have an Office? Before you judge please read the post carefully, the post referred to LH CSD's not those on EF who, as you so carefully pointed out, have always worked the cabin.
Unless of course you consider the forward toilet on the 321 as your office as I have seen done before in the past much to my amusement.