BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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I don't see what choice I have but to vote yes.
Sadly it does rather come down to that I think Rosiegirl.
Can anyone suggest that rejection would result in a better offer following, I would think not. Can anyone suggest that further strikes would have a positive effect, for either side, again I would suggest not.
Even the most bullish people must start to realise that the argument, if there ever was actually one, has been well and truly lost. BASSA are a spent force absent of ideas or direction, now it’s about damage limitation for individual members of cabin crew I feel.
Vote yes, play nice and perhaps if profitability improves further and a more customer centric attitude to disruption is noted then ST may sneak back early without incident?
I’d certainly support such a move once mindsets started to get closer again – which they inevitably will I’m sure.
….and yes Rosiegirl, you and your posts are indeed welcome.
Keep well and good luck.
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Unite is falling apart?
Latest News Updates
3rd November 2010 - AMICUS COMMITTEE UPDATE
Formal Rejection
Dear Colleagues,
The Unite Amicus Section Committee formally rejects the latest offer from British Airways. We have taken this decision, not in opposition to our BASSA colleagues, but simply because we consider the offer to be unacceptable, and we can therefore only recommend that you reject it.
The rationale is based on the fact that Unite have driven the situation and rehashed a document now for the third time. The document on which you are about to be consultatively balloted is an offer that you have rejected TWICE before. Any additions to the document lack genuine and authentic commitment, and are cleverly worded to primarily benefit and remain controlled by British Airways.
The Unite negotiating team, in an unprecedented manoeuvre, has arrived at this agreement WITHOUT the direct involvement of any of your local representatives from either branch. The nett result is that Unite have been diverted by British Airways, and our dispute has now been defined by staff travel and the disciplinary process. British Airways have also carefully timed these events and continue to dominate the time line in order to delay and manipulate the impact/result of any ballot for industrial action that you may choose by rejecting their offer.
Our dispute started as a result of IMPOSITIONand the EROSION of our TERMS and CONDITIONS. This course will undoubtedly now continue based upon today’s judgment from the court of appeal. Worse still, the document laid before you is a further erosion of those terms and conditions, and is an attempt to seal your approval to additional measures that have the sole purpose of undermining your collective agreements moving forwards. It is also an offer that seeks to make it acceptable to punish us for taking lawful industrial action.
Whilst the court may not have found crewing levels to be legally binding, the judgment does recognise many sections of your collective agreement which are. The court decision does not affect your right to protect your agreements industrially. You can now make a PERSONAL choice – whether or not YOU will allow or prevent further decimation of your agreements.
Along with this offer you and Unite will be required to drop all further litigation against British Airways. This includes many cases of injustice against individuals throughout the dispute.
We believe we must now show leadership and be true to our beliefs - and we do this to protect the future livelihoods and rights of you, our friends and colleagues.
Our BASSA colleagues have chosen to support the current Unite agenda and we accept that decision. However, we have chosen a different path and one which we belief is synonymous with our commitment to represent you with integrity. We simply cannot stand by while this offer is slipped in through the use of clever words, and the obvious omission of the TRUTH - the fundamental element of trust.
Whilst AMICUS and BASSA have adopted a different approach to this offer, we remain committed to an acceptable resolution of the dispute.
YOU now are being encouraged to decide your future, and we agree wholeheartedly, as it is your individual future, the future of your families and our collective future as a community. It is also your democratic right to vote and that is why we are telling you this offer is dangerously flawed and falls short of what will be required to settle this dispute. We will not sell you out with misinformation and omission of the truth - Therefore please use your vote to reject the offer and pursue our right to a fair and acceptable agreement that deals with our issues fairly and transparently.
Yours in solidarity,
The Amicus Section Committee
3rd November 2010 - AMICUS COMMITTEE UPDATE
Formal Rejection
Dear Colleagues,
The Unite Amicus Section Committee formally rejects the latest offer from British Airways. We have taken this decision, not in opposition to our BASSA colleagues, but simply because we consider the offer to be unacceptable, and we can therefore only recommend that you reject it.
The rationale is based on the fact that Unite have driven the situation and rehashed a document now for the third time. The document on which you are about to be consultatively balloted is an offer that you have rejected TWICE before. Any additions to the document lack genuine and authentic commitment, and are cleverly worded to primarily benefit and remain controlled by British Airways.
The Unite negotiating team, in an unprecedented manoeuvre, has arrived at this agreement WITHOUT the direct involvement of any of your local representatives from either branch. The nett result is that Unite have been diverted by British Airways, and our dispute has now been defined by staff travel and the disciplinary process. British Airways have also carefully timed these events and continue to dominate the time line in order to delay and manipulate the impact/result of any ballot for industrial action that you may choose by rejecting their offer.
Our dispute started as a result of IMPOSITIONand the EROSION of our TERMS and CONDITIONS. This course will undoubtedly now continue based upon today’s judgment from the court of appeal. Worse still, the document laid before you is a further erosion of those terms and conditions, and is an attempt to seal your approval to additional measures that have the sole purpose of undermining your collective agreements moving forwards. It is also an offer that seeks to make it acceptable to punish us for taking lawful industrial action.
Whilst the court may not have found crewing levels to be legally binding, the judgment does recognise many sections of your collective agreement which are. The court decision does not affect your right to protect your agreements industrially. You can now make a PERSONAL choice – whether or not YOU will allow or prevent further decimation of your agreements.
Along with this offer you and Unite will be required to drop all further litigation against British Airways. This includes many cases of injustice against individuals throughout the dispute.
We believe we must now show leadership and be true to our beliefs - and we do this to protect the future livelihoods and rights of you, our friends and colleagues.
Our BASSA colleagues have chosen to support the current Unite agenda and we accept that decision. However, we have chosen a different path and one which we belief is synonymous with our commitment to represent you with integrity. We simply cannot stand by while this offer is slipped in through the use of clever words, and the obvious omission of the TRUTH - the fundamental element of trust.
Whilst AMICUS and BASSA have adopted a different approach to this offer, we remain committed to an acceptable resolution of the dispute.
YOU now are being encouraged to decide your future, and we agree wholeheartedly, as it is your individual future, the future of your families and our collective future as a community. It is also your democratic right to vote and that is why we are telling you this offer is dangerously flawed and falls short of what will be required to settle this dispute. We will not sell you out with misinformation and omission of the truth - Therefore please use your vote to reject the offer and pursue our right to a fair and acceptable agreement that deals with our issues fairly and transparently.
Yours in solidarity,
The Amicus Section Committee
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Can anyone suggest that rejection would result in a better offer following, I would think not. Can anyone suggest that further strikes would have a positive effect, for either side, again I would suggest not.
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We have nothing to lose by voting NO to this offer
Also, if NO results in a strike, which may well be unprotected, there is always your job to lose potentially. Far from nothing I think.
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Seeing as WW's letter to BB (15/10/10) stated.....
All parts of the union, Unite, BASSA and Amicus, must recommend acceptance.
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Miss M
We have nothing to lose by voting NO to this offer. Management, and particulary WW, cannot be in dispute with us forever. Be rest assured that we will get a NO majority vote on current offer.
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MissM
We have nothing to lose by voting NO to this offer. Management, and particulary WW, cannot be in dispute with us forever. Be rest assured that we will get a NO majority vote on current offer.
You have stated in the past that you would strike until BA 'went under' if necessary. You also have stated of how non cabin crew are not as pertinent to the airline as you.
Will you offer anything to our Airline other than threats of strikes? Or is change of working practises only applicable to us lesser souls?
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Would you believe it??
Amicus speaking up for a change.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I wonder how mother Unite feels about this and more so will Willy withdraw BA's latest offer now????
This is far more exiting than any football world cup final I have ever watched.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I wonder how mother Unite feels about this and more so will Willy withdraw BA's latest offer now????
This is far more exiting than any football world cup final I have ever watched.
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Also, if NO results in a strike, which may well be unprotected, there is always your job to lose potentially. Far from nothing I think.
Or, are you suggesting that BA will issue SOSR? We have been hearing this rumour for probably a year. If they were serious about it they would have issued it a long time ago.
Let's drop SOSR.
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Amicus speaking up for a change.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I fear BA CC continue to be the cannon fodder for egocentric 'leaders'
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Amicus speaking up for a change.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I wonder how mother Unite feels about this and more so will Willy withdraw BA's latest offer now????
This is far more exiting than any football world cup final I have ever watched.
I left them because I felt that their voice of moderation was lost in Bassas & Unites cries for a bloody war. And now this.
It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
I wonder how mother Unite feels about this and more so will Willy withdraw BA's latest offer now????
This is far more exiting than any football world cup final I have ever watched.
It's all very well of them to speak-up now, but they've also just highlighted the pointlessness of having 2 branches of the same union in that Amicus don't actually suggest a solution, or how they might go about obtaining one. Their statement today concludes with the following:
Therefore please use your vote to reject the offer and pursue our right to a fair and acceptable agreement that deals with our issues fairly and transparently.
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yotty
Dear Yotty,
it's my lively hood too you know?
Not being represented by a union any longer I too am forced to watch this spectacle from the side lines.
You got to keep your sense of humor in this, otherwise I would have been crying on the plane for the last 18 months.
it's my lively hood too you know?
Not being represented by a union any longer I too am forced to watch this spectacle from the side lines.
You got to keep your sense of humor in this, otherwise I would have been crying on the plane for the last 18 months.
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MissM , what exactly do you want? What will make you vote 'yes'.
You have stated in the past that you would strike until BA 'went under' if necessary. You also have stated of how non cabin crew are not as pertinent to the airline as you.
Will you offer anything to our Airline other than threats of strikes? Or is change of working practises only applicable to us lesser souls?
You have stated in the past that you would strike until BA 'went under' if necessary. You also have stated of how non cabin crew are not as pertinent to the airline as you.
Will you offer anything to our Airline other than threats of strikes? Or is change of working practises only applicable to us lesser souls?
Removing ST for legally withdrawing our labour was wrong. It was nothing but a punishment. We have always been in a majority of a strike. Why are they insisting on punishing those of us who actually felt that a strike was necessary and nothing a last resort? ST must be returned immediately without any sanctions. And, I'm thinking about our commuters who live all around the world. I have myself commuted from different parts of the world but that never would have affected my choice to strike. I still would have gone on strike. Before you say anything, some of our commuting flight crew live far away too.
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Don't go down this path again.
Or, are you suggesting that BA will issue SOSR? We have been hearing this rumour for probably a year. If they were serious about it they would have issued it a long time ago.
Let's drop SOSR.
Or, are you suggesting that BA will issue SOSR? We have been hearing this rumour for probably a year. If they were serious about it they would have issued it a long time ago.
Let's drop SOSR.
I did not mention SOSR, I'm talking about the difference between protected IA and unprotected IA, which you seem to wish to head towards.
I assume you appreciate the difference between the two? I know your union tells you that you cant be sacked for striking but I guess you are informed enough to know that is incorrect.
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It sure takes a lot to surprise me but the old CC89 guard just did.
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Rosiegirl needs your support !
Rosiegirl has stood up and admitted that she is now in posession of some facts that were not prevalent a year ago. She is also aware, and so are most readers on this forum, of the disgusting wrath of the Bassa Secretary on his forums should you publicly disagree with him.
She was simply misled and misfed; that is not her fault.
The BASSA top table blatantly lied to the members at the branch meeting with over 1,500 members present, did they really think we wouldn't discover the truth one day in the future ?
We trusted that the information being fed to us was correct, we now know that the ballot for IA was based on dodgy intelligence.
After refusing to negotiate,(according to Unite as well as the High Court and ACAS , if I read the court documents correctly) , Bassa then told the members that it was the other side that refused to negotiate and will never negotiate their position ever again. We were told to vote for strike action in order to get BA back to the negotiating table.
We did what we genuinely thought was the right thing at that time; late 2009.
None of our colleagues voted for 12 days of IA over Xmas, why would they have? We were not consulted, asked, balloted or anything else on this issue yet it went out on national TV before BA were informed.
Then we were promised ST returned in five minutes, disciplinary cases to be washed under the carpet, no new fleet, samosas and a yellow brick road.
Amicus with their latest letter serves absolutely no-ones interests. They sided with Bassa after their existence was threatened by Unite and now are looking for members anywhere they can. These are the same Amicus people that stood side by side with Bassa at the last branch meeting before IA long after Bassa had refused to sit at the same negotiation table.
The crew community has taken a few punches and there are many bloody noses and out there; however, please take a closer look at what we have been subjected to over the last year or so.
The dilemma facing your average air hostess is not dissimilar to asking the child to pick sides and then sort out their parents' divorce for them (without legal advice or funding).
Off for a glass of wine, when I get back I want this whole mess cleared up.
She was simply misled and misfed; that is not her fault.
The BASSA top table blatantly lied to the members at the branch meeting with over 1,500 members present, did they really think we wouldn't discover the truth one day in the future ?
We trusted that the information being fed to us was correct, we now know that the ballot for IA was based on dodgy intelligence.
After refusing to negotiate,(according to Unite as well as the High Court and ACAS , if I read the court documents correctly) , Bassa then told the members that it was the other side that refused to negotiate and will never negotiate their position ever again. We were told to vote for strike action in order to get BA back to the negotiating table.
We did what we genuinely thought was the right thing at that time; late 2009.
None of our colleagues voted for 12 days of IA over Xmas, why would they have? We were not consulted, asked, balloted or anything else on this issue yet it went out on national TV before BA were informed.
Then we were promised ST returned in five minutes, disciplinary cases to be washed under the carpet, no new fleet, samosas and a yellow brick road.
Amicus with their latest letter serves absolutely no-ones interests. They sided with Bassa after their existence was threatened by Unite and now are looking for members anywhere they can. These are the same Amicus people that stood side by side with Bassa at the last branch meeting before IA long after Bassa had refused to sit at the same negotiation table.
The crew community has taken a few punches and there are many bloody noses and out there; however, please take a closer look at what we have been subjected to over the last year or so.
The dilemma facing your average air hostess is not dissimilar to asking the child to pick sides and then sort out their parents' divorce for them (without legal advice or funding).
Off for a glass of wine, when I get back I want this whole mess cleared up.
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My guess is that BASSA and CC89 decided to be buddies because their differences helped them to lose the imposition case last year. Now that they have lost the appeal too, perhaps CC89 feel they can do their own thing again?
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Torc
And there lies my dilemma. I don't like some of the offer, some I do. CC89 (historically moderate) have said reject but I agree what is gained by saying no except that the status quo is maintained, but that leaves a festering sore.
I have my staff travel back now for commuting (thank God) but I disagree with Mr Walsh using it as a tool. Many agree with me on that moderate or militant Flight Crew or otherwise.
However I do want closure. I am tired, drained, let down and confused. I will NOT go on strike again and even saying that upsets me because I believe all staff need a strong union. BA are no freinds of any staff group even pilots.
I have had some really good chats recently with pilots downroute. Far from the bullys that they are protrayed as I have found that many (not all but many) have given me a more balanced view on the whole situation from the start and how I and my well meaning caring colleagues have ended up here.
I have also been told of the pilot deal which is far removed from what I have heard from BASSA or the militants.
I wish there was somewhere else to go but where do the doubters and the "let downs" turn to now for support?
And there lies my dilemma. I don't like some of the offer, some I do. CC89 (historically moderate) have said reject but I agree what is gained by saying no except that the status quo is maintained, but that leaves a festering sore.
I have my staff travel back now for commuting (thank God) but I disagree with Mr Walsh using it as a tool. Many agree with me on that moderate or militant Flight Crew or otherwise.
However I do want closure. I am tired, drained, let down and confused. I will NOT go on strike again and even saying that upsets me because I believe all staff need a strong union. BA are no freinds of any staff group even pilots.
I have had some really good chats recently with pilots downroute. Far from the bullys that they are protrayed as I have found that many (not all but many) have given me a more balanced view on the whole situation from the start and how I and my well meaning caring colleagues have ended up here.
I have also been told of the pilot deal which is far removed from what I have heard from BASSA or the militants.
I wish there was somewhere else to go but where do the doubters and the "let downs" turn to now for support?
ROSIEGIRL,
MissM suggests that you "Stay with your union." MissM also goes on to say:
BASSA have absolutely zip left! As you yourself have acknowledged, there is no point in listening to the nonsense emanating from that camp anymore. Is there?
MissM suggests that you "Stay with your union." MissM also goes on to say:
When you receive your ballot, vote NO to this proposal as it's not worth the paper it has been written on. We still have a voice and a lot of power to fight BA.