BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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There's always going to be copies of BASSA comms posted on here. I don't think it bothers most BASSA members. Anyway, it is clearly tasty fodder to those posters on here who don't have anything constructive to add to the thread. Gives them something negative to bleat on about.
Who gives a toss whether someone from BASSA wants to make a personalised style of communication to it's members. Doesn't really have an impact on me. It's clearly an attempt to ease frustrations, whilst BASSA are being silenced by Unite. Some people will get some comfort from any form of communication. Doesn't bother me either way. Clearly, I'd rather have something solid from BASSA/Unite but that's not available right now. What's the point of ridiculing DH? Does that make YOU feel better?
Anyway, the situation is getting out of control now, and it looks like BASSA members are slowly being taken for a ride, by Woodley (imo). BASSA are being frozen out by Unite, and more and more BASSA members are seeing that now.Many people are totally pissed at this realisation. We can now see that unless we dig our heels in firm and secure the best deal possible for ourselves, we are stuffed.
We're not all angry Militants who went on strike. Some of us just want protection for our current terms and conditions, AND the removal of the extra bod has had a huge impact on the quality of the service we deliver.
Some of us have worked for nothing in the past, supported BA in times of need before (only to have been shafted back then too). I want job security. Am I willing to give a little to obtain that?, of course I am. But it's not about that, it's about getting shot of BASSA. And everyone is smelling the coffee now.
Who gives a toss whether someone from BASSA wants to make a personalised style of communication to it's members. Doesn't really have an impact on me. It's clearly an attempt to ease frustrations, whilst BASSA are being silenced by Unite. Some people will get some comfort from any form of communication. Doesn't bother me either way. Clearly, I'd rather have something solid from BASSA/Unite but that's not available right now. What's the point of ridiculing DH? Does that make YOU feel better?
Anyway, the situation is getting out of control now, and it looks like BASSA members are slowly being taken for a ride, by Woodley (imo). BASSA are being frozen out by Unite, and more and more BASSA members are seeing that now.Many people are totally pissed at this realisation. We can now see that unless we dig our heels in firm and secure the best deal possible for ourselves, we are stuffed.
We're not all angry Militants who went on strike. Some of us just want protection for our current terms and conditions, AND the removal of the extra bod has had a huge impact on the quality of the service we deliver.
Some of us have worked for nothing in the past, supported BA in times of need before (only to have been shafted back then too). I want job security. Am I willing to give a little to obtain that?, of course I am. But it's not about that, it's about getting shot of BASSA. And everyone is smelling the coffee now.
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If BA wanted to get rid of BASSA why the fourteen seperate attempts to negotiate with them before imposition? Unfortunately even the moderates seem to subscribe to the BASSA version of the truth, one that was revealed as actually being highly untruthful in sworn testimony in court. The reason BA are dealing directly with Unite is that the BASSA leadership is simply incapable of dealing with BA in an adult fashion, as has been amply demonstrated in their tantrums, their refusals to negotiate, their creative use of mathematics and their infantile insults levelled at everybody in BA who isn't a BASSA employee. As a union they simply are not fit for purpose, unless that purpose is rabble rousing and whipping the angry mob up into a frenzy. Unite are the only union negotiating party with sufficient overview to realise that the strikes haven't been successful, that their impact is decreasing and they really have no strong cards left to play. BASSAs faithful seem hell bent on causing a strike at Christmas in the false belief that Walsh needs to come back to the table and offer them full staff travel and the return of the sacked, and the BASSA leadership are doing nothing to disabuse them of this illusion.
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I get it now !
x then xx then xxx then xxxx then nothing! According to the blog from the secretary, not everybody understood the joke.
The Bassa Forum is realy giving their members their £1.9b worth of subs. Seems like certain leaders within Bassa just wanted a strike ballot and even wanted to choose the strike ballot date until a Unite leader ruined their latest party by trying to negotiate a deal !!
What a load of old tosh from the secretary of Bassa trying to fill up a whole page of news updates by blogging about a great day at the races and a yearning to return to Bedfont FC. There were no news updates regarding the future T&C's of the members, just his usual dissappointments about not yet starting another strike all about him.
x then xx then xxx then xxxx then nothing! According to the blog from the secretary, not everybody understood the joke.
The Bassa Forum is realy giving their members their £1.9b worth of subs. Seems like certain leaders within Bassa just wanted a strike ballot and even wanted to choose the strike ballot date until a Unite leader ruined their latest party by trying to negotiate a deal !!
What a load of old tosh from the secretary of Bassa trying to fill up a whole page of news updates by blogging about a great day at the races and a yearning to return to Bedfont FC. There were no news updates regarding the future T&C's of the members, just his usual dissappointments about not yet starting another strike all about him.
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From the Independent:
British Airways will not back down in the year-long cabin crew dispute and is ready to run a near-full service in the event of another strike, the airline's chief executive Willie Walsh said today.
He said it was "entirely" the fault of the cabin crew's union Unite that the dispute had dragged on for 12 months.
And he added that changes to working practices should have been tackled 10 years ago.
Addressing the annual convention of travel organisation Abta in Malta, Mr Walsh said: "In the past I have seen managers and businesses ignore issues and back down in the face of industrial action. We are not going to do that."
He said that should there be further industrial action BA hoped to be able to run a full service at Gatwick and London City airports and all its long-haul flights at Heathrow, with the only question being just how much of Heathrow's short-haul programme could operate.
Asked if it was "entirely the union's fault" that no settlement had been reached in the dispute, Mr Walsh replied: "Entirely."
Speaking about a possible Christmas strike, Mr Walsh said that Unite would have to go through a number of procedures before such a strike could be called.
He went on: "I don't believe it's the intention of Unite to do that (go through the procedures).
He said that while BA hoped to reach agreement, it was also planning "for all eventualities" and had a "very robust" contingency programme in place.
Mr Walsh said he was not being critical of previous BA managers but added: "We should have faced up to these challenges 10 years ago."
He said it was "entirely" the fault of the cabin crew's union Unite that the dispute had dragged on for 12 months.
And he added that changes to working practices should have been tackled 10 years ago.
Addressing the annual convention of travel organisation Abta in Malta, Mr Walsh said: "In the past I have seen managers and businesses ignore issues and back down in the face of industrial action. We are not going to do that."
He said that should there be further industrial action BA hoped to be able to run a full service at Gatwick and London City airports and all its long-haul flights at Heathrow, with the only question being just how much of Heathrow's short-haul programme could operate.
Asked if it was "entirely the union's fault" that no settlement had been reached in the dispute, Mr Walsh replied: "Entirely."
Speaking about a possible Christmas strike, Mr Walsh said that Unite would have to go through a number of procedures before such a strike could be called.
He went on: "I don't believe it's the intention of Unite to do that (go through the procedures).
He said that while BA hoped to reach agreement, it was also planning "for all eventualities" and had a "very robust" contingency programme in place.
Mr Walsh said he was not being critical of previous BA managers but added: "We should have faced up to these challenges 10 years ago."
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well, the Bassa secretary has already made plans with his xxxx forum countdown that he was hell bent on another strike ballot and another "Bedfont here we come" mantra.
His personal views will not be altered by his peers at Unite.
If Unite can make a deal; either way the bassa secretary should resign his position.
His personal views will not be altered by his peers at Unite.
If Unite can make a deal; either way the bassa secretary should resign his position.
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YP - You've got it wrong. The vast majority want a deal, end of. A lot of people are angry, yes, but 'hell bent' on causing a strike at Christmas? That's off the mark, and just not true.
We are all having to endure working in an awful environment, with cat-like remarks and bitching being exchanged both ways (I know, I endured some of the very same only yesterday!). Nobody actually wants this.
I speak to everyone, Perm Crew, Temp Crew, Strikers and Non Strikers, Flight Crew and everybody just wants an end to this. But whilst it's all hanging in the air right now, the fighting, bitching and social outcasting will still go on.
I spoke to a FC Colleague the other day and he tells me he has been suffering from depression since this whole debacle started. People don't often talk about depression, with that, I am wondering how many others are also suffering. I know of several CC that are currently on meds for the same reason.
Fights/arguments are still breaking out away from base, and more seriously, on the aircraft. And for the record, CRM is totally dead. FC colleagues tell me, the social aspect of the job is the worst they have ever experienced. The majority of cabin crew communicate only the absolute necessary on board.
Regarding an offer, most people won't be satisfied with just having ST back. It's way beyond that now. Someone has to pull out the stops, before something nasty happens. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time.
We are all having to endure working in an awful environment, with cat-like remarks and bitching being exchanged both ways (I know, I endured some of the very same only yesterday!). Nobody actually wants this.
I speak to everyone, Perm Crew, Temp Crew, Strikers and Non Strikers, Flight Crew and everybody just wants an end to this. But whilst it's all hanging in the air right now, the fighting, bitching and social outcasting will still go on.
I spoke to a FC Colleague the other day and he tells me he has been suffering from depression since this whole debacle started. People don't often talk about depression, with that, I am wondering how many others are also suffering. I know of several CC that are currently on meds for the same reason.
Fights/arguments are still breaking out away from base, and more seriously, on the aircraft. And for the record, CRM is totally dead. FC colleagues tell me, the social aspect of the job is the worst they have ever experienced. The majority of cabin crew communicate only the absolute necessary on board.
Regarding an offer, most people won't be satisfied with just having ST back. It's way beyond that now. Someone has to pull out the stops, before something nasty happens. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time.
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We're not all angry Militants who went on strike. Some of us just want protection for our current terms and conditions, AND the removal of the extra bod has had a huge impact on the quality of the service we deliver.
Secondly, the level of service provided on-board is not decided by you or your union. You are employed to deliver the service BA wants, that's all there is to it. Sorry, but if you want to decide how the company is run, get a management job.
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Hello jollyjon, 2 posts eh? Welcome to the bear-pit. So, what would you do? How would you pour oil on this troubled sea? You seem to come from the coal face. SH or LH?
Give us your panacea.
FWIW, I am from the SH world and am 'very' up-to-speed on the current BASSA v BA situation. I have to be; indeed, my decision making has to be pure in the prevailing working environs.
At work, I am extremely vigilant when it comes to CRM - and it aint dead on SH. LH? - I can't comment.
nurj
Give us your panacea.
FWIW, I am from the SH world and am 'very' up-to-speed on the current BASSA v BA situation. I have to be; indeed, my decision making has to be pure in the prevailing working environs.
At work, I am extremely vigilant when it comes to CRM - and it aint dead on SH. LH? - I can't comment.
nurj
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In that case Jon you, as a community, need to get hold of the nutters on the various forums by the scruff of the neck, and your reps too, and tell them that. The loudest shouts are from the most militant, and unless the more moderate members get the message across that they don't want a christmas strike just for the hell of it that's how your community is going to be portrayed, fairly or not.
I don't believe CRM is dead. As has been said before, CRM is not about being nice to each other, it's about communicating safety related information effectively. I've yet to find even the most militant striker who wouldn't call the flight deck to report a safety issue, so it seems to me that reports of it's demise are greatly exaggerated. For many crew, CRM is synonymous with socialising with the flight crew, and it's worth looking at the origins of that particular boycott. It came from the militants and it was demanded that all strikers must take part. Of course that doesn't happen, as I've enjoyed some pleasant evenings downroute with XXXXers recently. The social aspect of the job for flight crew may be the worst it's ever been but I can tell you thats all relative. It was never great before, and to be honest isn't really missed now. There's a reason JNB trips are so popular, and it's not just the golf! If crew wish to only communicate at a minimum level than thats their loss, they'll exclude themselves from all thats happening with the rest of the crowd. Their choice.
Regards the offer, there seems to be a fundamental refusal to accept the weak position BASSA is in. They are simply in no position to demand anything from BA as their only weapon is a blunt one. They've called for a strike so many times that they are like the boy who cried wolf. Forward bookings are unimpacted by their threats. BASSA are a toothless tiger and the best Unite can get for them now is no further loss. I'd be amazed if staff travel came back with seniority, especially as a 'no strike' clause tied to a future return to seniority is a great restriction on BASSAs behaviour. Will Willie Walsh be kicked out? Of course not, he's moving onwards and upwards to greater things and his replacement may be less abrasive but is no less steely. It was he who imposed the negotiating deadline, not Walsh. The sacked returned? Not in a million years. Many of them have committed major breaches of the BA employment guide, some have acted criminally. They're not coming back. Unite might get an ACAS review of the process, but not reinstatement. The only was something nasty might happen is if the board lose patience and give everyone 90 days notice of termination of contract. The union no longer have the power to deliver anything nasty.
I don't believe CRM is dead. As has been said before, CRM is not about being nice to each other, it's about communicating safety related information effectively. I've yet to find even the most militant striker who wouldn't call the flight deck to report a safety issue, so it seems to me that reports of it's demise are greatly exaggerated. For many crew, CRM is synonymous with socialising with the flight crew, and it's worth looking at the origins of that particular boycott. It came from the militants and it was demanded that all strikers must take part. Of course that doesn't happen, as I've enjoyed some pleasant evenings downroute with XXXXers recently. The social aspect of the job for flight crew may be the worst it's ever been but I can tell you thats all relative. It was never great before, and to be honest isn't really missed now. There's a reason JNB trips are so popular, and it's not just the golf! If crew wish to only communicate at a minimum level than thats their loss, they'll exclude themselves from all thats happening with the rest of the crowd. Their choice.
Regards the offer, there seems to be a fundamental refusal to accept the weak position BASSA is in. They are simply in no position to demand anything from BA as their only weapon is a blunt one. They've called for a strike so many times that they are like the boy who cried wolf. Forward bookings are unimpacted by their threats. BASSA are a toothless tiger and the best Unite can get for them now is no further loss. I'd be amazed if staff travel came back with seniority, especially as a 'no strike' clause tied to a future return to seniority is a great restriction on BASSAs behaviour. Will Willie Walsh be kicked out? Of course not, he's moving onwards and upwards to greater things and his replacement may be less abrasive but is no less steely. It was he who imposed the negotiating deadline, not Walsh. The sacked returned? Not in a million years. Many of them have committed major breaches of the BA employment guide, some have acted criminally. They're not coming back. Unite might get an ACAS review of the process, but not reinstatement. The only was something nasty might happen is if the board lose patience and give everyone 90 days notice of termination of contract. The union no longer have the power to deliver anything nasty.
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And for the record, CRM is totally dead. FC colleagues tell me, the social aspect of the job is the worst they have ever experienced.
CRM, as has already been said, is not about being cuddly and nice, it IS about gaining the best from your crew within the environment you are working in. Emergency CRM, thankfully, isn't needed often. The day to day interaction between the FC, the CC and within the CC themselves is NOT CRM it is simply standard manners especially in a social aspect.
We are all adults. How we deal with each other in a social setting is up to us, not a specific management tool requiring standard responses and motivation based upon the recipients strengths and weakness!
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Spin Doctor
I do get it, and I would be willing to make some financial changes for the sake of the company's future, if I believed that it would stop there.
I absolutely do have a right to protect my T and C's, especially when changes to them would have massive finacial implications for me and my young family. And as previously mentioned, I have worked for gratis for BA in the past in order to support them.
I'm interested to know what percentage of your salary would you be happy to give up (in order to keep BA going). Could you give me a figure?
Regarding your helpful comments about the service on board. No, you are right, I don't decide how the service is to be delivered. But If I'm working on the front line, and I can see that the changes that have been made (decision of someone far more important than myself, of course) are not working, and are in fact impacting on the quality/standard of the product, then surely I have a say in that, right?
Or maybe not, maybe you would just like me to go away, and be happy about being trampled on financially (that's the opinion I'm getting from you).
Jo (not Jon).
I do get it, and I would be willing to make some financial changes for the sake of the company's future, if I believed that it would stop there.
I absolutely do have a right to protect my T and C's, especially when changes to them would have massive finacial implications for me and my young family. And as previously mentioned, I have worked for gratis for BA in the past in order to support them.
I'm interested to know what percentage of your salary would you be happy to give up (in order to keep BA going). Could you give me a figure?
Regarding your helpful comments about the service on board. No, you are right, I don't decide how the service is to be delivered. But If I'm working on the front line, and I can see that the changes that have been made (decision of someone far more important than myself, of course) are not working, and are in fact impacting on the quality/standard of the product, then surely I have a say in that, right?
Or maybe not, maybe you would just like me to go away, and be happy about being trampled on financially (that's the opinion I'm getting from you).
Jo (not Jon).
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..Indeed, Wirbelsturm. IMHO, attitude (+ve) is the all important character trait along with one of those 'untouchables/unquantifiables' - namely, awareness, that oils the wheels of performance.
Alas, there are many folk in all walks of life that bimble around simply unaware of the consequences and impact of their behaviour.
nurj
Alas, there are many folk in all walks of life that bimble around simply unaware of the consequences and impact of their behaviour.
nurj
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Regarding your helpful comments about the service on board. No, you are right, I don't decide how the service is to be delivered. But If I'm working on the front line, and I can see that the changes that have been made (decision of someone far more important than myself, of course) are not working, and are in fact impacting on the quality/standard of the product, then surely I have a say in that, right
You have a say by mentioning issues regarding service to your manager.
He she will gather your reports as well as others (I'm sure there would be others if the service is as bad as you say) and report up.
If the managers are doing things right they will take these reports into account.
This is how company structure works. Sure, the managers need to listen to such reports and weigh-up how much negative impact the service is having versus the cost savings for the company on removing a crew member.
But that is the point - it's up to the managers to run the company how they see fit. Good or bad - they will ultimately be measured on how it runs.
If my department is run in a way that I think could be vastly improved - do I shout "sort it or I'll go on strike"? Course not.
I report it upwards. If they do nothing - that's THEIR decision. I HAVE to go with that.
They will succeed or fail on their decisions as that is their job.
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I'm sure it's frustrating when you see every day at work things which don't work, or fail to deliver on our promise to the customer. In fact, I know it is because I get the same in my role too. Sometimes the issues get reported and reported and nothing ever seems to change. Annoying - yes. My responsibility? - No. I have a job to do as well and much as I think I could run the airline better than the current management (don't we all) the fact is, we don't.
I still don't see how you 'get' that changes have to be made, but that you are still insistent on maintaining your T&C's. You can't do both.
As far as 'massive financial impact' goes again I don't see it, working one down affects you how, exactly?
Finally you asked what I would be prepared to give to keep BA going, well I agreed to an effective cut of 5% on my gross salary, so I guess you could take that as a starting figure. What did you agree to?
I still don't see how you 'get' that changes have to be made, but that you are still insistent on maintaining your T&C's. You can't do both.
As far as 'massive financial impact' goes again I don't see it, working one down affects you how, exactly?
Finally you asked what I would be prepared to give to keep BA going, well I agreed to an effective cut of 5% on my gross salary, so I guess you could take that as a starting figure. What did you agree to?
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CRM - Working in a tremendously hostile environment, CC not communicating with other CC (let alone FC), that's bad CRM where I'm standing. And I'm not talking about the 'cuddly' stuff. Anyway, there is no 'cuddly' stuff anymore.
How can you ensure, with all this hostility, that things aren't missed. And I know...People shouldnt be flying if they can't carry out SEP well, and communicate security/safety issues etc but, if 'accidents' or 'mistakes' are going to happen, they are more likely to happen in this environment. For Christ's sake, crew have been fighting on board!!
I met a FC colleague last week who brought his own lunch to work. He said to me on the QT that as he volunteered during the strikes, he was worried about someone putting something in his food!
Not great, is it?
And the whole Yellow Pen thing. That sort of happened for a couple of weeks, nobody uses them now, and nobody really talks about them anymore.
Yello Pen - What do you mean when you say 'not missed'? Do you mean that you couldn't care less whether you socialise with CC anymore? And why are JNB's so popular?, do you mean it's because there are no CC present at your Hotel?
How can you ensure, with all this hostility, that things aren't missed. And I know...People shouldnt be flying if they can't carry out SEP well, and communicate security/safety issues etc but, if 'accidents' or 'mistakes' are going to happen, they are more likely to happen in this environment. For Christ's sake, crew have been fighting on board!!
I met a FC colleague last week who brought his own lunch to work. He said to me on the QT that as he volunteered during the strikes, he was worried about someone putting something in his food!
Not great, is it?
And the whole Yellow Pen thing. That sort of happened for a couple of weeks, nobody uses them now, and nobody really talks about them anymore.
Yello Pen - What do you mean when you say 'not missed'? Do you mean that you couldn't care less whether you socialise with CC anymore? And why are JNB's so popular?, do you mean it's because there are no CC present at your Hotel?