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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

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BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

Old 9th Oct 2010, 17:53
  #201 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London,England
Posts: 32
As it is today, they don't want any of us on their new fleet because they don't want it to be contaminated. This is the sort of management we are dealing with and their actual view of us. Charming, hey?
Miss M - Have a read below and see if you can guess why BA may not want some 'legacy' crew 'contaminating' (in your words) Mixed Fleet

Personally I will strike go on strike for as long as it takes as some of us care about out future and will not accept this behaviour from our excuse to an LT.
I'm sceptical to information presented by BA as they sometimes tend to twist things to their own advantage.
A threat of a possible strike in the future will always have an affect on forward bookings. It's one of our strongest weapon. BA might be able to depart 100% of all WW flights should a strike occur. Customers however will not get what they are paying for
Self importance? Of course. We are the reason as to why BA was once the world's favourite airline.
I still believe going on strike was the right decision and I won't hestitate a second to go on another strike should we vote for it.
We still have power. Even if we vote for another strike it will affect the business regardless of BA promising to operate a full 100% longhaul schedule
Don't be mislead by this company
Don't ever believe that you did yourself, or this company, a favour for not going on strike.
We want some sort of control of Mixed Fleet
I'm finding it very difficult to be saying that BA employees who either crossed the picket line or trained to break our strike are my colleagues. I find their behaviour to be despicable
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 17:55
  #202 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: N5120. W00035
Posts: 51
Have they prior negotiating skills? Have they been on a course? Have they experience in negotiating at the highest level with a PLC? Fairly relevant questions which would enhance their credibility dont you think?
Yes, I do and wish the PCCC will be more up front in that regard.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 18:03
  #203 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 873
Originally Posted by RadarIdent View Post
Yes, I do and wish the PCCC will be more up front in that regard.
I know very little about the PCCC but a lot about BASSA! Even without any negotiation skills I guess the PCCC would actually turn up and sit at the table - that would be a 100% improvement.

Who is to say that ex reps from Amicus Cabin Crew or even BASSA would not join and become reps?

BASSA is finished but cabin crew need a union to represent them and I believe BA don't have a problem with that either.
vctenderness is offline  
Old 9th Oct 2010, 18:16
  #204 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468

If you register with the PCCC at PCCC – Professional Cabin Crew Council you can chat to us directly (and other members) and we will happily answer your questions there.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 18:46
  #205 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 942

Do you actually work for an airline?

I don't agree with a lot of what Miss M says about this dispute but she is probably a good crew member, all the same.

Every now and again this thread gets very personal and it is a shame because I like to hear the views of those that striked, so that we can have a reasoned debate about what they think and what people who did not strike also think. We are not able to discuss it at work, you see.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 18:58
  #206 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,235
Willie wont back down, neither would many of us wish for him to do so.
He won't have to. Apparently the BASSA core are holding out for the CEO to change and reckon that Keith Williams will be all sweetness and light and give them all their pot at the end of the rainbow back along with ST, 100% Bookable first class seat and an extra 100 years on seniority for being good BASSA eggs.

I really have no idea what colour the sky is in LaLa land.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 19:33
  #207 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
oh dear holding out for 100 years seniority... how sad.... strikers are a real threat to you!!!! when we get our ST back... you dont want us to get it returned simply because most of the posters on this forum will be down the back again.. this is not about ST! that we will get back in court.... this is about imposition
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 19:44
  #208 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Thats funny, because I could swear there were numerous TV and press reports of both Tony Woodley and Duncan Holley saying the dispute is now about staff travel.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 21:26
  #209 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
never mind Woodley and Holley where have you signed ???
You have had the opportunity!
Stop going on about BASSA! you dont believe in them !
Mr Francis said if your not in a union you can sign the new contract so...
you have made your mind up I presume we can assume you have signed the new contract then !!!
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 21:38
  #210 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,235
(1)that we will get back in court.... (2)this is about imposition
(1) Thats what BASSA said months ago and it still hasn't even been near a court so I wouldn't hold your breath.

(2) That has gone to court and BASSA were told it was nothing to do with them how many crew BA staffed an aircraft with.

So, not going too well on the court front is it. But then again it never has for BASSA has it apart from one lifting of an injunction that led to a totally failed attempted to 'ground the airline' with numbers at Bedfont heartily bolstered by the Socialist Worker Party an a bunch of Teachers who had nothing better to do that day.

Where next for BASSA one wonders?

Personally I don't care about ST for strikers one way or the other, BASSA have made the issue by promising yet more things they can't deliver. Also, no, I won't be down the back if it makes you happy.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 22:29
  #211 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250
Trying to see wood for trees

Maybe I'm missing the point here, but what do BASSA and Unite aim to do in the short to medium term about this dispute ? All very well appealing over court judgements, but even if they win the appeal, it won't alter the status quo. Absolute worst case for BA is that a percentage of staff will get nominal damages, It won't alter the fact that there is still a dispute and a number of staff have lost out financially as well as in benefit terms. If Unite win the appeal and assuming that BA are not given leave to appeal to the supreme court, does that mean the union will settle ?

It is highly unlikely that an appeal court will order BA to alter the manning levels back to the pre November 2009 state. Even if they did, this would not aid Unite as the company would then merely increase the number of Mixed fleet staff and transfer a few more routes across to them. So Unite lose out on both counts.

BA are under no pressure to offer improved pay etc. to Unite members. They can let the status quo perpetuate. As long as Unite claim to be in dispute, the company can cheerfully withold staff travel, just as they have in previous disputes. At some point in time, the members who have lost ST will either give up and leave BA, or accept that unless they settle they won't get a chance at regaining it. They could wait for any court action to go through, but even then the courts may only offer damages, not restitution. Now given the nature of staff travel, it is unlikely that any damages would be significant as the monetary value is low.

Court cases will not resolve this dispute and thus I come back to my original point. What exactly are Unite and the BASSA branch intending to do about resolving it ?
Moreover, what will those people who went on strike gain as a consequence ?

If the strike was purely about a point of principle, then I suggest that those who walked out have nothing to gain. They made their point. It fell on deaf ears . End of story. From where I stand, saying that is was as a result of management imposition is striking on a point of principle. Time to move on.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 22:38
  #212 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
colonel.. takeyour points however lets think of it this way...what have the strikers now got to loose by going on strke again?.. they have already lost st and pay/ MORE PAY THAN THEY WENT ON LEGAL IA FOR .. so the bitterness is intranced.. nothing to loose, so may as well continue however I have to say they continue because they believe there is a better solution.. I still await a reply from the posters on this forum who have signed the new agreement.. and lets say bassa win at the appeal will these same BASSA haters give any money back that they may gain from the case?? I very much doubt it!
I have had a post removed.. it stated that I have the upmost respect for flight deck they get me home safely to my family and I thank them for that .. it all so said you make yourselves feel bullied. you wear your backing ba lanyards, this has become childish..stand up for your cause what ever you believe debate and listen

Last edited by dave3; 9th Oct 2010 at 22:52.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 22:42
  #213 (permalink)  

You Think, Therefore I Am
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 61
Posts: 3,587
Oh Dear! Back from the pub are we dave3?

Calm down please everybody - go to bed!
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 22:46
  #214 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
wow! tightslot, will take whatever the mod throws at me but open debate both sides happening ,no not home from the pub may be xfactor has sent me a bit doolallyyy but.. why did you delete my post ?
sorry mod now realise why you think im just home from the pub.. sorry every one but I have dyslexia not a pun or a joke sorry.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 22:56
  #215 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250

That wasn't quite the point I made. I asked what Unite intend to do to bring this dispute to a close. Further strikes that rest on the same reason would not be 'protected'. Thus anyone who walked out could be dismissed for breach of contract. Now I'm sure that being sacked is not exactly what those who have walked out so far have in mind. Moreover, what useful purpose would striking serve if BA are able to maintain a viable operation ? Surely the whole point of the strike weapon is that it brings the company to a halt and thereby forces management to accede to the union demands. Any ballot now would presumably be lined up to deliver strikes over the Christmas period. Those crew with modest memories will recall the public backlash last year. Given that this time around BA will not only have all the volunteers but also the new Mixed Fleet staff plus at least 1000 existing LHR staff, oh and all of LGW and LCY I suspect that those turning in for work will be treated as absolute heroes, whilst the stayaways will be regarded as lower than the Grinch. If the stayaways then on their return to work and make their status very public by wearing BASSA lanyards, sporting xxxx tags on luggage and clutching yellow pens they might just get a lambasting from the passengers. Question . Is that what strikers really want ?
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 23:05
  #216 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
cant speak for the majority but I want my Terms and conditions, so did the F/D when open skies was released.. WE realise that changes need to be made but when top management are still getting massive bonuses when we are an airline in crysis does that not grate you.??. Im a base closure I have to travel hours to work.. I love my job, I just want to fight to retain what ever I can democraticly and mylegal right.. not at any cost..the feeling in CRC states the cost (not from me I will add not fallen out with anyone ) however we all have different views thats what makes us human.. I am not articulate but I love my job and my passengers love me.. I just want to fight for what I and thousands of other crew believe in. If your from another department you would never understand that. being crew or flight deck is very different to any other job.. again I still await a reply from the anti bassa crew who have signed the new contract and are happy.
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Old 9th Oct 2010, 23:36
  #217 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Heathrow
Posts: 250

I fail to see how the terms and conditions of crew contracts have been changed. Crew complements are not contractual. If they were, then all BA needs to do is issue a proposed change and give crew 90 days to sign it. Is that what those who walked out want the company to do ? It would be a very easy move and given that crew have been working to the new numbers for nearly a year I suspect a lot of people would sign up.

Fighting for what you believe to be right is admirable, but it is important to know which fights to pick and which to avoid. BASSA very foolishly didn't avoid this one and now a heap of crew members find themselves caught out. Continuing the fight runs the risk of losing one's job - assuming that the individual takes further strike action.

The problem for those who walked out is that they can't use the same premise again for further action. So the fight grinds to a halt. What is left is a group of dissatisfied cabin crew who feel oppressed, unsupported by a number of their colleagues (by my reckoning around half of cabin crew disn't walk out) yet unable to alter the situation. Choices. Accept the status quo, recognise you lost this one learn from it and maybe next time seek to build what you lost this time into any settlement to future disputes. Alternatively leave the company and work for another carrier. Third option is stay but try to plug away at this forlorn hope. The risk is that you might then find that BA tighten up on all sorts of little things, like uniform standards, punctuality, service levels etc. Infringements get treated by the standard processes, which may mean anything from being pulled from a flight to disciplinaries.

FWIW at least cabin crew haven't been put through the delights of having to reapply for their jobs as some A scale staff have. Having 20 people play musical chairs for 15 jobs is not fun.
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 00:44
  #218 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 379
Job cuts

Colonel White wrote:
FWIW at least cabin crew haven't been put through the delights of having to reapply for their jobs as some A scale staff have. Having 20 people play musical chairs for 15 jobs is not fun.
They were the lucky ones. I know of one department which told dozens of people that they were no longer wanted. I also know of a large section of another department which found themselves without work when it was downsized.

A lot of cabin crew really do not know how lucky that they have not had cutbacks imposed on them They would then have had little prospect of getting another job in BA even with Careerlink help.
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Old 10th Oct 2010, 06:52
  #219 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 148
Colonel White

'Moreover, what will those people who went on strike gain as a consequence ?'

Nothing, and it makes me very sad that so many peoples' lives were toyed with in order to try and prove that some refugees from 70's style unions can exercise some power. Must be proud of themselves now.
From Tunbridge Wells is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2010, 07:51
  #220 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Didsbury
Posts: 51
Dave 3,

I am one of the 1000-ish non union crew who signed the new agreement. Why wouldnt I be happy?
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