BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Chesh01
I cannot argue that the defendants will try to fight as hard as they can to be reinstated, as most people would. I would imagine that a percentage of the dismissed, would still be dismissed post arbitration, maybe all. So what is the risk, other than the possibility than at least some were tactical dismissals?
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litebulb follow up
Personally I blame BASSA for allowing crew to think they can take the controversial soundbites of their literature and think they can use it on BA premises, BA time and against BA employees.
Why should We tolerate BASSA lanyards as some kind of political eye poke or those ridiculous xxxx key rings. Is taking things like that to the next level worthy of any sympathy?
BASSA is the school bully that picked the wrong fight and tried to get their followers to join in without warning them what the rules of engagement are. Everyone in the dock must must face the consequences of their actions and should ask themselves is it the union or BA that got them in this position.
Why should We tolerate BASSA lanyards as some kind of political eye poke or those ridiculous xxxx key rings. Is taking things like that to the next level worthy of any sympathy?
BASSA is the school bully that picked the wrong fight and tried to get their followers to join in without warning them what the rules of engagement are. Everyone in the dock must must face the consequences of their actions and should ask themselves is it the union or BA that got them in this position.
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21 dismissals is not excessive, Litebulbs. From my personal experience, at the height of the 'falling out', all the nastiest bully boys were full of voice. It is unfortunate that all we hear is BASSA's bleating about how their thugs have been singled out. I would stake my mortgage on the fact that every one of these sackings is warranted. There were bullies in 'peacetime' who were unacceptable. This situation just provided the empowerment for their victims.
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Right Engine
If you would stake your mortgage on it, then ACAS arbitration should not worry you at all. Do you believe BA will reinstate the dismissed employees arbitrarily; I don't. BASSA are demanding full reinstatement. How do you negotiate a settlement? Do you think an independent is going to reverse every decision?
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BASSA is the school bully that picked the wrong fight and tried to get their followers to join in without warning them what the rules of engagement are. Everyone in the dock must must face the consequences of their actions and should ask themselves is it the union or BA that got them in this position.
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dismissals
I have stated before, as a union member if anyone of us found ourselves in the disaplinary process then the first point of contact would be my union. I would also expect, unless I was "guilty a charged", to have the union at my side at every stage defending me.
Therefore i can therefore only assume one of the following:
1. Individuals were "guilty as charged".
2. Union misrepresented them in the process.
3. Individuals did not get any union help.
In any of these cases, I see no reason why their situation should form any part of a settlement going forwards. If Members and their union feel wrong doings by the company then there is a legal process to follow to resolve this.
The reason for any individual acting in a manor that places them in the disaplinary process is not relavent, ie industrial action, the consequences of their actions must however be expected.
Therefore i can therefore only assume one of the following:
1. Individuals were "guilty as charged".
2. Union misrepresented them in the process.
3. Individuals did not get any union help.
In any of these cases, I see no reason why their situation should form any part of a settlement going forwards. If Members and their union feel wrong doings by the company then there is a legal process to follow to resolve this.
The reason for any individual acting in a manor that places them in the disaplinary process is not relavent, ie industrial action, the consequences of their actions must however be expected.
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Litebulbs
ACAS arbitration wouldn't worry me - no. Why should it? Have I missed a big point here?
I know, through a 100% credible source, of one of the recent sackings. It involved intimidation, endangerment of aircraft and threats of violence. Are those acts acceptable and do you feel ACAS would disagree?
What I sense here is whilst BA are hamstrung by the legal obligations of employment law and have to remain silent, BASSA (or should I say DH) seems to think they can publish the skewed testimony of those who have been sacked. Perhaps there are 1, maybe 2 doubtful cases but BASSA's portrayal of this group is that they are all entirely innocent. They aren't - You know that.
There comes a time when one has to say 'It's a fair cop, Guv' - False martyrdom, when it is proved to be that, will show retrospectively how low BASSA stooped over the last 18 months. Bring on that day of grim realisation.
ACAS arbitration wouldn't worry me - no. Why should it? Have I missed a big point here?
I know, through a 100% credible source, of one of the recent sackings. It involved intimidation, endangerment of aircraft and threats of violence. Are those acts acceptable and do you feel ACAS would disagree?
What I sense here is whilst BA are hamstrung by the legal obligations of employment law and have to remain silent, BASSA (or should I say DH) seems to think they can publish the skewed testimony of those who have been sacked. Perhaps there are 1, maybe 2 doubtful cases but BASSA's portrayal of this group is that they are all entirely innocent. They aren't - You know that.
There comes a time when one has to say 'It's a fair cop, Guv' - False martyrdom, when it is proved to be that, will show retrospectively how low BASSA stooped over the last 18 months. Bring on that day of grim realisation.
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2. You can fight as strong a case as you want, but the decision is the employers, even if a tribunal decides in favour of the employee. This is because the employer still does not have to reemploy.
3. Now I agree with you, in as much as going on strike as the first action in this dispute, removes the threat of industrial action to protect employees who have been dismissed unfairly, because of the dispute.
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Right Engine
I am sure that if Unite come back to the dismissed and offer them a shot at ACAS arbitration, there will be a fair percentage that will not bother; as you say "fair cop guv". However, there will be some that see this as a lifeline. But would BA take the risk, if one or more dismissals are overturned?
"You can't touch me, I'm part of the union" has been long gone throughout the industry and no doubt many in this dispute are only just realising this now.
"You can't touch me, I'm part of the union" has been long gone throughout the industry and no doubt many in this dispute are only just realising this now.
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If you knowingly break the rules you get sacked.
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The problem with BASSA...
Litebulbs said,
"You can't touch me, I'm part of the union" has been long gone throughout the industry and no doubt many in this dispute are only just realising this now.
"You can't touch me, I'm part of the union" has been long gone throughout the industry and no doubt many in this dispute are only just realising this now.
They failed me, and they've failed their members now and look at the mess we're in. The problem with BASSA is that some of the reps got too big for their boots and it is BASSA who thought "BA can't touch me." This dispute would have been long over if BASSA hadn't thought they were the UNTOUCHABLES.
When Colombus leaked, BASSA should have been intelligent enough to collaborate with BA and work with the company, but they they didn't. Instead, they panicked and simply lost the plot.
PS:Chesh01, I agree with most of what you've posted, disciplinaries should not be part of the settlement.
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Chesh01 posted
"Why should We tolerate BASSA lanyards as some kind of political eye poke or those ridiculous xxxx key rings."
So is the wearing of a BALPA lanyard also an "eye poke" which should be dealt with as a disciplinary matter...lets face it they dont conform to uniform regulations either?
"Why should We tolerate BASSA lanyards as some kind of political eye poke or those ridiculous xxxx key rings."
So is the wearing of a BALPA lanyard also an "eye poke" which should be dealt with as a disciplinary matter...lets face it they dont conform to uniform regulations either?
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Personally I think that the only suitable lanyards for all staff are the plain navy ones then all the debate is unnecessary. Advertising for union affiliations, airline manufacturers, charities and random other businesses should not be on a corporate uniform where the key word is "uni-form" or of one form i.e. all the same.
If it is such an effective form of advertising then perhaps we (BA) should sell the space and generate revenue. The passengers spend a lot of time looking at our backs so we could also sell the space on our ******!
If it is such an effective form of advertising then perhaps we (BA) should sell the space and generate revenue. The passengers spend a lot of time looking at our backs so we could also sell the space on our ******!
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BA pilots have been informed as of Nov 1 BALPA lanyards, or any other no issue, must not be worn.
As a current BALPA lanyard wearer, I cannot disagree with the policy.
As a current BALPA lanyard wearer, I cannot disagree with the policy.
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"Why should We tolerate BASSA lanyards as some kind of political eye poke or those ridiculous xxxx key rings."
So is the wearing of a BALPA lanyard also an "eye poke" which should be dealt with as a disciplinary matter...lets face it they dont conform to uniform regulations either?
So is the wearing of a BALPA lanyard also an "eye poke" which should be dealt with as a disciplinary matter...lets face it they dont conform to uniform regulations either?
I was asked, or should I say ordered, by a lanyard police in the CRC some time ago to remove my BASSA lanyard as it was not uniform standard. A couple of feet away were three pilots standing (I hope you had a good look because it looked like your eyes were about to pop out) with their BALPA lanyards around their necks.
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BA pilots have been informed as of Nov 1 BALPA lanyards, or any other no issue, must not be worn.
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Anyone From The PCCC Going To Respond?
A Genuine Question
Quote:
So I don't see any problem with the PCCC being able to talk with BA on behalf of it's members whether it is recognised or not. At least the PCCC actually asks it's member for their views on matters which is something that Bassa does not do.
I notice that you say the "PCCC members" - and these are real questions and not trying to catch anybody out !!
Do you have to physically join by signing something?
Is there a constitution?
When you say the PCCC asks it's members for their views, is this done by ballot, online poll or some other way?
Genuine questions from somebody curious how it all works
Quote:
So I don't see any problem with the PCCC being able to talk with BA on behalf of it's members whether it is recognised or not. At least the PCCC actually asks it's member for their views on matters which is something that Bassa does not do.
I notice that you say the "PCCC members" - and these are real questions and not trying to catch anybody out !!
Do you have to physically join by signing something?
Is there a constitution?
When you say the PCCC asks it's members for their views, is this done by ballot, online poll or some other way?
Genuine questions from somebody curious how it all works
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Great news. That'll make it a lot easier for us SCCM's to manage the BASSA lanyards! Hopefully we should be able to get rid of all of them by Xmas!
upperdeckpsr,
You'll find genuine answers to all your genuine questions by logging on to the Professional Cabin Crew Council website at mypccc.co.uk.
