British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Being pedantic or paying attention to detail? You decide. I know what I mean, and if you don't want to see that, that's up to you. I stand by my postings and my research.
If Unite is planning on heading straight to the European courts, they might want to consider this (sent to me by somebody else, so haven't had a chance to check for accuracy):
.
If Unite is planning on heading straight to the European courts, they might want to consider this (sent to me by somebody else, so haven't had a chance to check for accuracy):
Unite cannot go to ECoHR direct. It's a requirement to have exhausted all domestic legal stages before a case will be entertained. Also, ECoHR only hears cases against States. So if Unite ended up having to go to ECoHR, the case would have to be against the UK for having laws non-compliant with ECoHR. If they then win, they then have to wait for the government to amend UK legislation to bring into line. Then BA can say they're not covered by the specific piece of legislation and force another challenge through the UK legal system.
As for timelines, ECoHR guidance states that: "
The Court endeavours to deal with cases within three years after they are brought, but the examination of some cases can take longer and some can be processed more rapidly.". Worth noting that ECoHR gets over 30,000 new applications every year
As for timelines, ECoHR guidance states that: "
The Court endeavours to deal with cases within three years after they are brought, but the examination of some cases can take longer and some can be processed more rapidly.". Worth noting that ECoHR gets over 30,000 new applications every year
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13 years ago
Just found this Independant article re the 1997 strikes:
Punishment, fear and humiliation - the bully's way - Opinion - The Independent
About 1/3rd of the way in, it contains a list of five things that crew were apparently told would happen to them if they went on strike.
This time round, it seems only to be point number 5 that's been implemented (although permanently this time).
Seems likely then that BA are fully aware of the "blacklist" issues, otherwise they would have implemented points one to four as well?
Punishment, fear and humiliation - the bully's way - Opinion - The Independent
About 1/3rd of the way in, it contains a list of five things that crew were apparently told would happen to them if they went on strike.
This time round, it seems only to be point number 5 that's been implemented (although permanently this time).
Seems likely then that BA are fully aware of the "blacklist" issues, otherwise they would have implemented points one to four as well?
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swalesboy
It was a letter from Walsh in the pack that was sent out to all crew - basically saying that acceptance of the offer by Unite was conditional on dropping both the appeal and an undertaking not to proceed or fund any litigation through the courts with regards to Staff Travel - I will try to scan it in and link to it
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So as Unite is planning on taking legal action against BA, let's have some details.
Which firm of lawyers is Unite using? What's the name or the QC taking the case? How is the cost of litigation (at least a seven figure sum being funded)? As the case will take many years to resolve what will cabin crew do in the interim as Unite won't accept BA's offer to restore ST for commuters? Have court papers been filed? Who are acting as witnesses?
As Unite is now pressing ahead with litigation answers to these questions should be readily available.
Which firm of lawyers is Unite using? What's the name or the QC taking the case? How is the cost of litigation (at least a seven figure sum being funded)? As the case will take many years to resolve what will cabin crew do in the interim as Unite won't accept BA's offer to restore ST for commuters? Have court papers been filed? Who are acting as witnesses?
As Unite is now pressing ahead with litigation answers to these questions should be readily available.
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Apologies BCCM
What I was getting at was, and I can see that my post was badly written, can you provide a link showing that Willie Walsh wanted the clause as he thought that the removal of staff travel was illegal, as you keep saying.
What I was getting at was, and I can see that my post was badly written, can you provide a link showing that Willie Walsh wanted the clause as he thought that the removal of staff travel was illegal, as you keep saying.
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swalesboy
I can only provide a link to the fact that Mr Walsh sent a letter to the TUC specifically saying that in order for Staff Travel to be returned with zero seniority - Unite had to drop all litigation over the withdrawal of Staff Travel, and the deduction of money for pay deducted beyond the days of actual industrial action.
If he was confident he had a good case then surely there would be no need for such a clause? Again this legislation is relatively new - even the most die hard BA supporter on here can see that those who took part in industrial action have suffered a detriment - that is now unlawful
If he was confident he had a good case then surely there would be no need for such a clause? Again this legislation is relatively new - even the most die hard BA supporter on here can see that those who took part in industrial action have suffered a detriment - that is now unlawful
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BCCM
Well in post 1459 you question ArthurScargill and ask for facts, yet for quite a few posts you make spurious allegations that Willie Walsh knows he’s in the wrong for removing staff travel with absolutely no fact or basis.
Seems a little hypocritical to me that you can spout your OPINIONS and others on here can’t without you demanded links. So once again, where is the factual link showing Willie Walsh knew he was in the wrong with regard to ST. As you have just said, there isn't one.
As someone has already stated, this is going to take years to get into a court. I would be more concerned as to what is going to happen over the upcoming weeks.
Well in post 1459 you question ArthurScargill and ask for facts, yet for quite a few posts you make spurious allegations that Willie Walsh knows he’s in the wrong for removing staff travel with absolutely no fact or basis.
Seems a little hypocritical to me that you can spout your OPINIONS and others on here can’t without you demanded links. So once again, where is the factual link showing Willie Walsh knew he was in the wrong with regard to ST. As you have just said, there isn't one.
As someone has already stated, this is going to take years to get into a court. I would be more concerned as to what is going to happen over the upcoming weeks.
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Maybe he is sick to death of this whole debacle, like the vast majority of BA staff, maybe he does think he is in the wrong. Either way that is not my point as you know. The point is you want facts from others yet base your arguments purely on opinions.
Junior trash
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Go on then - why else would he be insistent on us dropping our legal action?
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We can on about Blacklist till were blue in the face also, but in the real world, how difficult would it be for a small Word document with a list of names to be put together? Illegal/not illegal, who knows, but it could and probably would happen. Just my opinion though.
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Litigation also takes up a lot of management time. BA's lawyers have plenty of work their plates with the Iberia merger, anti-trust immunity with American Airlines and so forth. Also, if you win you usually only recover 2/3rds of your costs.
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HotelMode
Any dispute settlement would include the cancellation of all legal action (on both sides), otherwise it wouldnt be a settlement.
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And that's probably why BA has this time only implemented the ST ban and not the other four points listed in the 1997 article. BA did its homework and so is aware that those would fall foul of the recent changes in blacklist regulation.
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Does BA have a blacklist?
From 2 March 2010, for it became unlawful for any individual, business or other organisation to compile (draw up), supply, sell or use a blacklist.
'Blacklisting' is where an organisation collects information on trade union members to enable that organisation or others to treat workers or job applicants less favourably because of their trade union membership or activities.
'Blacklisting' is where an organisation collects information on trade union members to enable that organisation or others to treat workers or job applicants less favourably because of their trade union membership or activities.
It is perfectly lawful for an individual's record to identify (whether directly or indirectly) the fact that they were on strike - whether it be on a roster, payroll or ST system.
What is unlawful is to gather that information into a single list so that it can be used to treat them detrimentally.
Because it is lawful to make deductions from someone's salary for the period they were on strike, a list of salary deductions would be OK. And because of the nature of the information, HMRC and audit requirements probably mean BA has to keep the information for several (7?) years.
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DeThirdDefect
What evidence do you have that BA has compiled a blacklist?
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Yes that is right BACCM.
BA had to have a list of strikers names, to send out those letters. Well done.
Who knows how that list will be used in the future? Possibly detrimentally even?
BA had to have a list of strikers names, to send out those letters. Well done.
Who knows how that list will be used in the future? Possibly detrimentally even?
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Out of curiosity - for how much longer can you continue to pay full fare tickets?