British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Well L337 the seven pages of "trivia" I wrote up on arrival
Our passengers will certainly benefit from the minor snags getting fixed too.
Keep on with the petty and childish behaviour, it matters not a jot in the grand scheme of things. Except that, as you sign your name to the faults, it is easy for BA to track patterns of behaviour and the individuals responsible.
Keep on with the foolishness, it makes it easier to manage you out of the business to the dole queue.
Toodle pip
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The 7000 figure of strikers appears accurate to me. It certainly corresponds to the % on longhaul aircraft who have lost ST. You have to ask yourself why Walsh refuses to release the actual figure. Maybe it does not fit in with his stats??? I also believe we will never hear the actual number of crew who have accepted the BA proposal, who are not in Unite. If it is released it will be a manipulated % of the 2810 people eligible to vote. 13300-9500(unite)-300(temps)-690(icc's). Of course most of LGW are non union, and will vote against the changes at LHR, as it doesn't really affect them. (YET!!!)
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snip .... It seems that the truth hurts, especially when our glroious CEO has mislead so many people via the media. Posters on this forum must learn not to be so trusting of management. Walsh has a track record of telling porkies. When the truth was dragged out of him at the Commons Transport Select Committess investigation of what went wrong at T5, Walsh admitted he knew the day before it would not work, but went ahead anyway. I think that at the Harvard Business School, this is known as the "s**t or bust strategy". .... snip
Seems the only thing they had any sort of problem "dragging" out of him was regards the departure of the DoO and the DoCS.
Maybe of more relevance to the current situation, and the oft repeated idea that WW needs to go in order to resolve it, are his answers to Qs 149, 151 & 152.
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Well the proof is in the pudding.
UNITE have called Willie's bluff by stating the number of crew who have been paid strike pay, NOT the number of claims.
Let Walsh now publish how many crew took up his "final offer".
UNITE have called Willie's bluff by stating the number of crew who have been paid strike pay, NOT the number of claims.
Let Walsh now publish how many crew took up his "final offer".
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DF wrote;
All the bluff seems to be from the TU side.
The results of the last ballot were published on 20/07 which was going to be the trigger for the next strike ballot.
Almost a week has passed without any tub-thumping from Unite/BASSA to 'drive management back to the table'. The silence is deafening from a group that purports to have such strong support.
Mr Walsh has told you that you have the final offer on the table so I think the time is approaching to 'put up or shut up' and let the majority of BA employees get on with building their airline.
Well the proof is in the pudding.
UNITE have called Willie's bluff by stating the number of crew who have been paid strike pay, NOT the number of claims.
Let Walsh now publish how many crew took up his "final offer".
UNITE have called Willie's bluff by stating the number of crew who have been paid strike pay, NOT the number of claims.
Let Walsh now publish how many crew took up his "final offer".
The results of the last ballot were published on 20/07 which was going to be the trigger for the next strike ballot.
Almost a week has passed without any tub-thumping from Unite/BASSA to 'drive management back to the table'. The silence is deafening from a group that purports to have such strong support.
Mr Walsh has told you that you have the final offer on the table so I think the time is approaching to 'put up or shut up' and let the majority of BA employees get on with building their airline.
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Originally Posted by mohitomaster
It certainly corresponds to the % on longhaul aircraft who have lost ST
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What pains me constantly on here and other places is the variable standards of burden of proof that many people seem happy to use depending on what source they receive their information from. Duggie, whilst clearly eloquent, you seem to require no further proof that the BASSA missive is correct. You simply accept it as such leading me to believe, if you will, that BASSA is a "trusted source" for information as far as you're concerned. Yet, any figures from BA are treated with derision and a suggestion of no more than spin which leads us to the absurd gainsaying we have on here so often. A BASSA press release is issued and is immediately trumpeted on here as "FACT" (why the repeated insistence on capital letters I truly do not know), yet any counter information is spin and we must all be idiots for believing it.
The only fact, as far as I am able to ascertain, is that very few people know the absolute truth about numbers who went on strike and, for whatever reason, those numbers are unlikely to ever be released in minute detail. A "FACT" with no more backing or substance is that it is mooted that Staff Travel have sent out some 3,450 letters of revocation of privileges thus far, with a small number left to go. If BASSA are correct, that small number totals almost the same amount again. So we have two boundary figures here and the only "FACT" is that the number of people who went on strike lies somewhere between 3,500 and 7,000. What we haven't got, and most likely never will, is any proof that either of these is more likely correct. We exist and thrive on here on an almost exclusively anecdotal basis.
MrB
The only fact, as far as I am able to ascertain, is that very few people know the absolute truth about numbers who went on strike and, for whatever reason, those numbers are unlikely to ever be released in minute detail. A "FACT" with no more backing or substance is that it is mooted that Staff Travel have sent out some 3,450 letters of revocation of privileges thus far, with a small number left to go. If BASSA are correct, that small number totals almost the same amount again. So we have two boundary figures here and the only "FACT" is that the number of people who went on strike lies somewhere between 3,500 and 7,000. What we haven't got, and most likely never will, is any proof that either of these is more likely correct. We exist and thrive on here on an almost exclusively anecdotal basis.
MrB
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Yes Mr Bunker. The truth will get out eventually.
Unfortunately in a war, the first casualty is indeed truth.
This dispute has become like a religion. Posters here believe what they want to believe. Anyone elses point of view is seen as a blasphemy.
Unfortunately in a war, the first casualty is indeed truth.
This dispute has become like a religion. Posters here believe what they want to believe. Anyone elses point of view is seen as a blasphemy.
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Mr Walsh has told you that you have the final offer on the table so I think the time is approaching to 'put up or shut up' and let the majority of BA employees get on with building their airline.
So why do a certain group of employees have to be so different? Is it because, as one silohoetted BASSA striker, mentioned on TV 'we are British Airways'?
No..ALL BA staff are 'British Airways'.
This really needs addressing once and for all. It's about time this minority militant lot had their wings clipped..for all our sakes!
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No Duggie,
That was almost diametrically opposite to my point above. The truth will most likely never out in this case in its' entirety. Your belief in the BASSA numbers is no more than faith as is the belief anyone else has in BA's statistics. I doubt we'll ever see audited, verified and accurate numbers.
MrB
That was almost diametrically opposite to my point above. The truth will most likely never out in this case in its' entirety. Your belief in the BASSA numbers is no more than faith as is the belief anyone else has in BA's statistics. I doubt we'll ever see audited, verified and accurate numbers.
MrB
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The RadarIdent, you must ask yourself why Willie Walsh is spending so much time and diverting so many resources just to beat up his cabin crew?
I'll take the offer you signed up to any day compared to what is in store for us if we roll over.
And then you will be next.
I'll take the offer you signed up to any day compared to what is in store for us if we roll over.
And then you will be next.
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Duggie
The RadarIdent, you must ask yourself why Willie Walsh is spending so much time and diverting so many resources just to beat up his cabin crew?
I'll take the offer you signed up to any day compared to what is in store for us if we roll over.
And then you will be next.
I'll take the offer you signed up to any day compared to what is in store for us if we roll over.
And then you will be next.
We'll be next???? Guess what we have been doing for the last x amount of years Duggie?
We're down to the bone...you have no idea what goes on outside of the CC fraternity have you? You absolutely can't have. This is why feelings are running so high.
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Hang on just a sec.
Something else that proves the numbers don't add up: in the latest comms, bassa claim that 9500 crew are members of unite. However, on bassa's website today, they claim to have 9736 members. How many are still amicus members?
I can smell something fishy here - and I'm not in Grimsby.
Something else that proves the numbers don't add up: in the latest comms, bassa claim that 9500 crew are members of unite. However, on bassa's website today, they claim to have 9736 members. How many are still amicus members?
I can smell something fishy here - and I'm not in Grimsby.
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Duggie Fashion said,
This dispute has become like a religion. Posters here believe what they want to believe. Anyone elses point of view is seen as a blasphemy
This dispute has become like a religion. Posters here believe what they want to believe. Anyone elses point of view is seen as a blasphemy
Just look at what happens to PNSTOP when he voices a differing opinion.
At least you don't get banned if you don't agree with majority of posters here. On the 'other' forums, you are accused of being Management/Pilots/Watersiders etc. should you have a different point of view.
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It does not matter how many people actually went on strike. However, you needed considerably more. The airline managed to keep flying and has done better as time has gone on. The important thing is who is winning and why. People will not pay for their seat tickets anymore so elevated salaries and conditions of employment are unsustainable. The airline either adapts or it will eventually fold.
BASSA appear worried that when a substantial number of crew within the airline are on the new terms and conditions, the current crew will be forced onto them too. Seeing that writing on the wall, perhaps a wise union would have realised that this would be less likely to happen if they were a little more flexible and accepted a limited amount of damage to their current conditions? Basically, this is what the rest of the airline has recognised and has been doing for the past decade. Giving BA just enough to stay out of the firing line is not a bad strategy, but is one that is an absolute no for BASSA. The cabin crew only have their union reps/negotiators to blame. They have consistently been too inflexible, and as a result, they have made themselves the obvious targets. They are going to beaten, there is zero doubt. In the meantime, they are indeed causing the airline damage. How much is very much open to debate, but does the union think this will result in better or worse lifetime earnings for its members? BASSA is incredibly shortsighted. This is why they are in their current predicament.
I still feel sorry for our cabin crew, that they have been represented so poorly. However, I have to say that the level of hatred for all other workgroups that has emerged from a large group of the cabin crew is saddening. What is more saddening is the knowledge that it has always been there lying just beneath the surface (it would be naive to think such hatred has brewed over night). I knew there were some individuals who possessed this hatred, but I had no idea it was harboured by such a large proportion. This knowledge has most definitely changed my view of the crew forever - and that is sad.
BASSA appear worried that when a substantial number of crew within the airline are on the new terms and conditions, the current crew will be forced onto them too. Seeing that writing on the wall, perhaps a wise union would have realised that this would be less likely to happen if they were a little more flexible and accepted a limited amount of damage to their current conditions? Basically, this is what the rest of the airline has recognised and has been doing for the past decade. Giving BA just enough to stay out of the firing line is not a bad strategy, but is one that is an absolute no for BASSA. The cabin crew only have their union reps/negotiators to blame. They have consistently been too inflexible, and as a result, they have made themselves the obvious targets. They are going to beaten, there is zero doubt. In the meantime, they are indeed causing the airline damage. How much is very much open to debate, but does the union think this will result in better or worse lifetime earnings for its members? BASSA is incredibly shortsighted. This is why they are in their current predicament.
I still feel sorry for our cabin crew, that they have been represented so poorly. However, I have to say that the level of hatred for all other workgroups that has emerged from a large group of the cabin crew is saddening. What is more saddening is the knowledge that it has always been there lying just beneath the surface (it would be naive to think such hatred has brewed over night). I knew there were some individuals who possessed this hatred, but I had no idea it was harboured by such a large proportion. This knowledge has most definitely changed my view of the crew forever - and that is sad.
Sad to hear that LHR cc are so fed up of the poisonous atmosphere generated by some of their colleagues at LHR they are now applying to go back to LGW. A couple of days ago our purser clearly thought he was scoring some big industrial point by telling us that he wouldn't be upgrading any cc on staff travel. He was very disappointed when it was pointed out to him that moving pax was the prerogative of the operating captain on the day once the doors were closed. Strike days were by far the most enjoyable ones on which to work: positive, enthusiastic crew who actually wanted to be at work. There's actually quite a decent airline within BA just trying to break out from the mediocrity and bitterness.
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Strike days were by far the most enjoyable ones on which to work: positive, enthusiastic crew who actually wanted to be at work. There's actually quite a decent airline within BA just trying to break out from the mediocrity and bitterness.
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HP,
Around 15 cc from LHR have been offered transfer to LGW. They've been on the waiting list for a few years. I think they have a while to think about it, as they'll be starting in September. If they do decide to accept, we'll welcome them with open arms and introduce them to the LGW way of life
For the record, I love our engineers! And the rest of our colleagues on the ground (although I haven't got quite as much love for the gate staff chap who was rude to my family a wee while back...)
Around 15 cc from LHR have been offered transfer to LGW. They've been on the waiting list for a few years. I think they have a while to think about it, as they'll be starting in September. If they do decide to accept, we'll welcome them with open arms and introduce them to the LGW way of life
For the record, I love our engineers! And the rest of our colleagues on the ground (although I haven't got quite as much love for the gate staff chap who was rude to my family a wee while back...)
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Tiramisu or Penelope N Stop if that is you.
PNStop took some stick because he was a very vocal critic of BA policy on the 'Dark Side' and then went into work. He got rumbled. You cannot run with the fox and the hounds.
PNStop took some stick because he was a very vocal critic of BA policy on the 'Dark Side' and then went into work. He got rumbled. You cannot run with the fox and the hounds.