British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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BAA
I'd imagine that UNITE would hope to regain 'street cred' with a more positive outcome on balloting BAA staff.
BASSA have battered, bruised and embarassed them.
DOOR6L...very good post.
BASSA have battered, bruised and embarassed them.
DOOR6L...very good post.
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Does anyone know if BA intend to publish the number of crew who have accepted their offer directly, after the poll closes on 31st July?
If the number that has said Yes to BA is greater than the number who said No to Unite, where does that leave the union's claim that no-one wants to accept the offer? For example, just suppose 5000 crew accept versus the 3419 who rejected it, will the CC who are asked to strike realise that there really are only 3419 who are prepared to risk everything for the sake of the reps trying to score points over WW! Only 3419 who have lost staff travel! Only 3419 facing losing their jobs! Expressed as a percentage of 13,500 thats not much more than 25%! That they truly are a minority?
I remember all the rhetoric from CF at the beginning of the dispute that those of us who didn't agree with the strike should follow the majority who wanted to take IA. Should the strikers now follow the majority? Any BASSA members like to comment?
If the number that has said Yes to BA is greater than the number who said No to Unite, where does that leave the union's claim that no-one wants to accept the offer? For example, just suppose 5000 crew accept versus the 3419 who rejected it, will the CC who are asked to strike realise that there really are only 3419 who are prepared to risk everything for the sake of the reps trying to score points over WW! Only 3419 who have lost staff travel! Only 3419 facing losing their jobs! Expressed as a percentage of 13,500 thats not much more than 25%! That they truly are a minority?
I remember all the rhetoric from CF at the beginning of the dispute that those of us who didn't agree with the strike should follow the majority who wanted to take IA. Should the strikers now follow the majority? Any BASSA members like to comment?
Last edited by ottergirl; 23rd Jul 2010 at 08:49.
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Ottergirl:
We already have evidence of 1600 or so that would like to accept the offer from the current BASSA membership. Add this to the number of non-members who have accepted the offer sent to us directly and I'm sure the 5000 figure you mention is more than achievable? I do hope the company will publish the results, because if the above situation does materialise, surely BA has a perfect opportunity to start negotiating with another party (PCCC for example). Results like this would clearly prove that BASSA is failing to represent it's members and the cabin crew community as a whole?
Door6left:
Excellent post, completely sums up my feelings although I doubt I could have put it so succinctly.
We already have evidence of 1600 or so that would like to accept the offer from the current BASSA membership. Add this to the number of non-members who have accepted the offer sent to us directly and I'm sure the 5000 figure you mention is more than achievable? I do hope the company will publish the results, because if the above situation does materialise, surely BA has a perfect opportunity to start negotiating with another party (PCCC for example). Results like this would clearly prove that BASSA is failing to represent it's members and the cabin crew community as a whole?
Door6left:
Excellent post, completely sums up my feelings although I doubt I could have put it so succinctly.
Last edited by Chigley; 23rd Jul 2010 at 08:51.
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Good post door6left.
I hope that those keen on IA read it and understand it because it is for similar reasons that many of us non-striking crew came to work and supported BA too.
I hope that those keen on IA read it and understand it because it is for similar reasons that many of us non-striking crew came to work and supported BA too.
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Something I've noticed these last few weeks and I wonder if its the same for any of you.
When things are not running to plan in the operation, some of our customers are much ruder, much quicker to attack us verbally and generally seem to be behaving with less respect. Could it be that all this negative press the last few months has given them carte-blanche to treat us with contempt? Yesterday, I received several examples of this and, actually in the scheme of things, the delays were fairly minor. I've heard stories from other CSD's of people shouting at them across several rows and the rest of the customers applauding. A man shouted at me yesterday that, after all I (yes me personally!) had put him through over the last year I was lucky he was still prepared to fly with me, BA were a disgrace, a national embarrassment, T5 shambolic and we all deserved to lose our jobs! The front two rows of Club were muttering agreement and two more jumped in with their pennies worth. We were 35 minutes late and he didn't like the remote stand!
Before this we still had rude people but the other passengers treated them as pariahs and distanced themselves from it all, now they are siding with the aggressor. Are we reaping what BASSA sowed or have I just had a run of unluckiness?
When things are not running to plan in the operation, some of our customers are much ruder, much quicker to attack us verbally and generally seem to be behaving with less respect. Could it be that all this negative press the last few months has given them carte-blanche to treat us with contempt? Yesterday, I received several examples of this and, actually in the scheme of things, the delays were fairly minor. I've heard stories from other CSD's of people shouting at them across several rows and the rest of the customers applauding. A man shouted at me yesterday that, after all I (yes me personally!) had put him through over the last year I was lucky he was still prepared to fly with me, BA were a disgrace, a national embarrassment, T5 shambolic and we all deserved to lose our jobs! The front two rows of Club were muttering agreement and two more jumped in with their pennies worth. We were 35 minutes late and he didn't like the remote stand!
Before this we still had rude people but the other passengers treated them as pariahs and distanced themselves from it all, now they are siding with the aggressor. Are we reaping what BASSA sowed or have I just had a run of unluckiness?
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from TEDDYBEAR44, on the public thread.
Due to fly with BA across the pond next in a few weeks.
If there is a strike, I'm betting BA will get me there and I hope I have VCC like Door6Left (from other thread) looking after me rather than those with views of e.g Ava.
Incidentally does anyone know what will happen to those wonderful VCC at the end of all this? Will they get to keep flying occasionally for Recency?
Nothing to do with BA myself.
Ted
If there is a strike, I'm betting BA will get me there and I hope I have VCC like Door6Left (from other thread) looking after me rather than those with views of e.g Ava.
Incidentally does anyone know what will happen to those wonderful VCC at the end of all this? Will they get to keep flying occasionally for Recency?
Nothing to do with BA myself.
Ted
Anyone on here that may enlighten Ted/us?
This was posted on the public forum.
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My understanding is that the intention is for the VCC to remain current and operate from time to time. I think outside the dispute, this will be quite a positive thing, helping 'bridge the gap' between the sky and the ground, providing a better understanding throughout the business about the challenges crew face onboard. No more "you don't understand what it's like onboard" comments - or at least not as many!
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Ottergirl.
I think you have just been unlucky. I have had some horrendous delays and even an aircraft change and my passengers have been fine.
It is upsetting though when you occasionally get someone that takes out delays due to weather or ATC on the crew but I still find this rare.
I think you have just been unlucky. I have had some horrendous delays and even an aircraft change and my passengers have been fine.
It is upsetting though when you occasionally get someone that takes out delays due to weather or ATC on the crew but I still find this rare.
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I understand that there will be recency for the VCC's,admittedly it was a conversation I 'eavesdropped' on, though I don't recall the details re the time period requirement.
Anyone on here that may enlighten Ted/us?
Anyone on here that may enlighten Ted/us?
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This thread has been a most enjoyable read, and part of my daily entertainment. There is almost the potential for a screenplay; the storyline has it all, twists, turns, surprises, exposures, greed and power, but alas no sex.
Sadly though, as July 31st fast approaches, it is sure to end soon....and in tears for many. The union camp can smell defeat, and are surely wondering how it could have gone so terribly wrong.
It will be a bitter pill for the BASSA leaders to swallow while they dream up excuses, attempt to justify the unjustifiable, re-write history and compose face saving speeches. These are people far removed from the breed who would have the decency to fall on their swords, and sadly they are unlikely to spare a single thought for those left in the wake of their destruction - those who can ONLY be faulted for believing the nonsense, lies, and propoganda that was peddled by a self serving bunch of (mostly) (sacked) BA employees!
The BASSA leaders will NEVER swallow their pride, but is there not still time for those on the losing team to sign up to the BA deal? Does logic not dictate it?
Sadly though, as July 31st fast approaches, it is sure to end soon....and in tears for many. The union camp can smell defeat, and are surely wondering how it could have gone so terribly wrong.
It will be a bitter pill for the BASSA leaders to swallow while they dream up excuses, attempt to justify the unjustifiable, re-write history and compose face saving speeches. These are people far removed from the breed who would have the decency to fall on their swords, and sadly they are unlikely to spare a single thought for those left in the wake of their destruction - those who can ONLY be faulted for believing the nonsense, lies, and propoganda that was peddled by a self serving bunch of (mostly) (sacked) BA employees!
The BASSA leaders will NEVER swallow their pride, but is there not still time for those on the losing team to sign up to the BA deal? Does logic not dictate it?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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AFAIK, it's the deadline for non-union cabin crew to confirm acceptance of the new terms and conditions which the BASSA consultation was about.
What will be interesting is how many cabin crew have chosen to accept. If the numbers are significant, I suspect the writing will be on the wall for any further action from BASSA as any strike will be ineffectual and may even pass entirely unnoticed.
What will be interesting is how many cabin crew have chosen to accept. If the numbers are significant, I suspect the writing will be on the wall for any further action from BASSA as any strike will be ineffectual and may even pass entirely unnoticed.
With the 31st deadline arriving fast I would suggest that those mis-guided people who are still members of bassa, BUT who voted to accept do just that - accept the deal on offer.
I am sure that if those individuals sign the document, and include a letter explaining the reasoning, that the company will honour the existing offer to them as well.
Hopefully when we all hear of the the huge number of cabin crew who have agreed to accept the offer then even the 'lunatic element' of the militant bassamentalists will see that they have picked the wrong fight at the wrong time - AND LOST.
Time for us all to move on and rebuild OUR company.
I am sure that if those individuals sign the document, and include a letter explaining the reasoning, that the company will honour the existing offer to them as well.
Hopefully when we all hear of the the huge number of cabin crew who have agreed to accept the offer then even the 'lunatic element' of the militant bassamentalists will see that they have picked the wrong fight at the wrong time - AND LOST.
Time for us all to move on and rebuild OUR company.
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Door6L
You have absolutely nailed 100% my views on this whole thing and is the reason I, as an existing crew member:
1 Voted No to strike action.
2 Left Unite
3 Went to work
and
4 Accepted the offer
You have absolutely nailed 100% my views on this whole thing and is the reason I, as an existing crew member:
1 Voted No to strike action.
2 Left Unite
3 Went to work
and
4 Accepted the offer
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I think if there is another strike, WW will leave the strikers at home when it finishes and financially starve them out of the company
I think this IA has gone on too long - if the unions cannot come to a conclusion in 18+ months, what hope do they have now (if they do not accept the 'final offer').
I have flown over the last week with a few horrible cabin crew, some of them who are looking for a fight - something that is not on. Others just blank their colleagues and flight crew(and these especially seem to be wearing BASSA lanyards). I would like to add that most of the crew have been lovely though. Anyone wearing a BASSA lanyard is IMO making a very strong statement .... maybe we could call them CC3349, new sub-branch of BASSA !
I think this IA has gone on too long - if the unions cannot come to a conclusion in 18+ months, what hope do they have now (if they do not accept the 'final offer').
I have flown over the last week with a few horrible cabin crew, some of them who are looking for a fight - something that is not on. Others just blank their colleagues and flight crew(and these especially seem to be wearing BASSA lanyards). I would like to add that most of the crew have been lovely though. Anyone wearing a BASSA lanyard is IMO making a very strong statement .... maybe we could call them CC3349, new sub-branch of BASSA !
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WW has made it clear to the press that the company will operate 100% of long-haul services ex-LHR during any further strikes.
If we get to further strikes (doubtful given the potential issues over membership numbers/reasons behind the new ballot etc), the strike will probably have no more impact than fog/heavy rain etc at LHR.
If we get to further strikes (doubtful given the potential issues over membership numbers/reasons behind the new ballot etc), the strike will probably have no more impact than fog/heavy rain etc at LHR.
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employment prospects
Came across the following article which may be of interest to those cabin crew thinking of taking further industrial action
'Pier Walker, 45, has been unemployed for over a year after a long and successful career working for British Airways in its first class cabin crew. Pier says: “I would like a job in customer services. Initially I was quite selective in what I applied for, but now I’m so desperate that I’m looking in any sector. On average I’m making two job applications a day but I have only been able to secure one interview for a permanent role and that has taken months to arrange. I have received no job offers to date.”'
Full article here =>Online Recruitment - Today?s jobseeker: over-qualified and undervalued
Article is dated 23/7/10, so very recent. Does make you think about the value of hanging on to your job as opposed to throwing it away defending BASSA's principles.
'Pier Walker, 45, has been unemployed for over a year after a long and successful career working for British Airways in its first class cabin crew. Pier says: “I would like a job in customer services. Initially I was quite selective in what I applied for, but now I’m so desperate that I’m looking in any sector. On average I’m making two job applications a day but I have only been able to secure one interview for a permanent role and that has taken months to arrange. I have received no job offers to date.”'
Full article here =>Online Recruitment - Today?s jobseeker: over-qualified and undervalued
Article is dated 23/7/10, so very recent. Does make you think about the value of hanging on to your job as opposed to throwing it away defending BASSA's principles.
Probably took Voluntary Redundancy (VR) knowing that she could walk into any job of her choosing with her skill-set. Certainly seems to be the attitude of a lot of the cabin crew I see at work.
As the article and any newspaper that one cares to read at the moment says...it's a tough world out there .
p.s... reminds me of the old joke....what do you say to an unemployed pilot?
Big Mac, large fries please....
As the article and any newspaper that one cares to read at the moment says...it's a tough world out there .
p.s... reminds me of the old joke....what do you say to an unemployed pilot?
Big Mac, large fries please....
Last edited by hunterboy; 24th Jul 2010 at 09:15.