British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[Betty girl]

Some posters on here seem to treat this tread like a soap opera, almost reveling in the misfortunes of others.

Can we all just step back a bit and realise that these are real people. There are many reasons why people leave their jobs and none of us knows why this person did and it was obiously well before this industrial action.

Imagine how any of you would feel to have your personal circumstances discussed by perfect strangers who know nothing about you, your personal views or your circumstances.

This thread is supposed to be discussing the industrial action taken by members of BASSA with British Airways not about speculation about private individuals (named in the artical) and why they left BA.

[strikemaster82]

Bettyg: most soap operas have less exciting plotlines...

However w.r.t. your comment, the person concerned was presumably happy to be interviewed and put their case in public, so what's the harm in discussing it on a rumour network?

This subject may help some wavering crew members to make a sensible decision about their employment and it will put some perspective on the whole thing for some.

Anyway, cabin crew are amongst the most gossipy people I know, you are on a hiding to nothing asking people not to comment here!

[Caribbean Boy]

Pier Walker would not have taken VR as CC who left on VR did so on 31 October, 30 November and 15 December last year.

Whatever the reason for her departure in about June 2009, it does show the danger of leaving without first having secured another job.

[Bridchen]

Just to draw a line under the Pier Walker discussion. Many people knew Pier at Gatwick a long time ago. She certainly wasn't a nasty or bad person, but I'm very surprised she stayed flying as long as she did. I hope she finds some work soon.

Going back a bit to Ava Hannah's comments. Most of us chose to resign and not to strike because BASSA lied to us, Ava. They called strike dates and didn't tell us about the new proposal until it was too late. It was their DUTY and JOB to keep us informed and make GOOD decisions. They failed spectacularly on all counts.

But this is very old news. My CSD yesterday, who went on strike in the first wave bitterly regrets it because of the underhandedness of BASSA on that issue. He would like to have considered that proposal but wasn't given the chance. He will be working next time around. He wants to accept this proposal, and is resigning his union membership so that he may have a chance to do so. I hope he does. Rumours were flying around the aircraft about New Fleet being introduced and flying 80% of services within 18 months to recoup the costs of the strikes. All "off the record, speaking to you as a friend" from people's managers. Not a lot we can do about it even if it's true. I've sent back my acceptance of the offer, but I don't take any comfort from it. We have a 2 year guarantee after which, if these rumours have any credence, I may be on a starters salary after working for 23 years for the same company. Does this happen in other companies? I'm genuinely interested to hear if anyone knows if this has happened anywhere else.

[Colonel White]

We have a 2 year guarantee after which, if these rumours have any credence, I may be on a starters salary after working for 23 years for the same company. Does this happen in other companies? I'm genuinely interested to hear if anyone knows if this has happened anywhere else.

AFAIK the only way that a company could make that sort of radical change would be to say that the role that you are doing no longer exists but that there were opportunities for a different role which had a lower salary. Now as far as I can see, the role of cabin crew isn't going to vanish in the next few years. I thought the only reference to a two year time span in the offer was the pay awards. Ts&Cs were assured with no time limit specified. The rumours sound like typical BASSA scaremongering. Even when Ascale staff have had to reapply for their jobs, their pay has not been reduced.

[Bridchen]

Yes, I think you're right, Col White. Thanks for the reply. It does sound like typical BASSA rubbish. One of the people talking about it was still under the impression that BA had refused to meet the BASSA reps for talks and not turned up at meetings.

[wee one]

Originally Posted by Hot Wings

Why hasn't he managed to get a job as a paramedic, firefighter or midwife? Surely he's qualified?

Or a Pilot? BACC are qualified for that arent they?Thats the inpression I get. They havent been bigging themselves up have they?

[Hot Wings]

A few years ago I interviewed an ex-BA stewardess who was looking for a job. All she could talk about in the interview was her requirement for restricted hours, part time, child care and parental leave. She had no interest in what she could do for the company. Perhaps cabin crew skills are transferable but the cosseted BA attitude is not. I'm afraid that a few people are going to have a very rude awakening in the near future.

[Juan Tugoh]

Perhaps cabin crew skills are transferable but the cosseted BA attitude is not

I noticed this 'entitled' view when I first joined BA. I remember talking to a CSD whose eldest son was just about to turn 24 and was on his last ST jolly. The gentleman in question was furious that the entitlement to ST for children ended when they became 24, it was, in his opinion, an outrage. He nearly spat out his beer when I agreed, it was an outrage that BA would give away a concession to someone who was over the age of 18 and therefore an adult, fully responsible for themselves in the eyes of the law. Yet all the CSD could see was that BA were a bad employer for removing this 'right' - never mind the fact that all they were doing was acting in accordance with their ST policy.

For someone with this entitled attitude and a total and unassailable belief that they are better than everyone else and deserve to paid more than everybody else and that the world somehow owes them a living, no job or employer will ever be good enough for them.

It is not such a prevalent attitude in BA these days but there is still a hardcore - and not just CC that seem to think that they would waltz into any job doing anything because they have worked for BA and are therefore god's gift to everything.

[standard unit]

Staff Travel???

Where I work those entitled to a staff travel seat pay for a seat on a space available basis.

The seat otherwise would remain empty.........

Are things different at BA????

[Caribbean Boy]

Bridchen wrote:

Rumours were flying around the aircraft about New Fleet being introduced and flying 80% of services within 18 months to recoup the costs of the strikes. All "off the record, speaking to you as a friend" from people's managers.

I won't pay any attention to rumours. Have these rumour mongers explained how BA would recruit and train so many people so quickly into MF? I thought not.

We have a 2 year guarantee after which, if these rumours have any credence, I may be on a starters salary after working for 23 years for the same company.

If your job disappears, you will get CareerLink help to find another job. Furthermore, if that job pays less than what you get, then you will get a pay differential to to make up the difference. Under the Redeployment Agreement, BA cannot just reduce your salary.

However, your job is not going to disappear in the foreseeable future. The only way that you will be on the salary and T&Cs of Mixed Fleet would be if you applied for a MF job and got it. In other words, you would have voluntarily changed job. This is the key difference with involuntarily changing job (which entitles you to the PD).

[Wirbelsturm]

If your job disappears, you will get CareerLink help to find another job. Furthermore, if that job pays less than what you get, then you will get a pay differential to to make up the difference. Under the Redeployment Agreement, BA cannot just reduce your salary.

A good example of this, I seem to remember, was the extinction of the Flight Engineers. Those who took pilot training retained their original FE pay upto the point where their flight crew pay took them past what they were earning as an FE. They then continued to progress on the new pay scales. That way the FE's were never 'out of pocket' so to speak. I am sure I have over simplified it and there are more knowledgeable than me but that is how I always understood it to work.

As much as BASSA likes to paint BA as the devil it, as an employer, has always dealt fairly in such situations, all IMHO of course.

[Shah100]

Can someone explain, what exactly is different from this revised contract offer from Walsh, compared to the current contract cabin crew have.
Everyone seems to be posting similar thoughts on this new contract.
Basic Pay is guranteed, T&C's will stay the same, variable pay will stay the same.

If the above is true, then what is different about this new contract compared to old.
Don't tell me Walsh confronted the Union, allowed the strikes to happened, lost over £100 million, just so there could be clause added to punish future strikes with loss of variable pay.

At the same time, I have read posts from members, saying that can't B.A can't afford to pay cabin crew the allowances they receive.
Yet here the crew are, apparently being given a new contract which is similar to there current contract with a pay rise of 2.9% and 3%.

[Human Factor]

Staff Travel???

Where I work those entitled to a staff travel seat pay for a seat on a space available basis.

The seat otherwise would remain empty.........

Are things different at BA????

You could understand someone mistakenly thinking things were different. However, it is as you describe.

[yotty]

Shah .. the MF will operate all the lucrative expense(ive) routes. Those on the older contract will maintain their present basic pay and conditions but will only get the lower paying sectors. If you see what I mean!

[Tiramisu]

Posted by Yotty
Shah .. the MF will operate all the lucrative expense(ive) routes. Those on the older contract will maintain their present basic pay and conditions but will only get the lower paying sectors. If you see what I mean!

Yotty,
Bill Francis has said time and time again that there would be a fair transfer of work in the High, Mid and Low earning trips. I do believe that BA will stick to this. Besides, if Mixed Fleet were to operate most of the lucrative routes, don't' forget we have the Top Up payment which means we won't suffer too much financially.

[Caribbean Boy]

Yotty,

You must think of this from a business perspective. MF will have a much lower cost base than WW and EF, so it will make sense to use MF on high-profile, loss-making routes like the kangaroo route. This is the only way to grow BA's Asia/Pacific network after several years of drastic decline.

[ChicoG]

You must think of this from a business perspective. MF will have a much lower cost base than WW and EF, so it will make sense to use MF on high-profile, loss-making routes like the kangaroo route. This is the only way to grow BA's Asia/Pacific network after several years of drastic decline.

Caribbean Boy,

From the business perspective, it makes sense to use MF on ANY route on which it will cost the company significantly less than the alternatives. That's the point of it.

The battle BA have won here is to reduce future staff costs. Had BASSA negotiated initially, then the more (and overly) generous packages we know some of the long timers receive would probably have lasted them to their retirement.

The opportunity that BASSA have thrown away here is a tragedy. Such short-sightedness.

[MrBernoulli]

Bridchen,

My CSD yesterday, who went on strike in the first wave bitterly regrets it because of the underhandedness of BASSA on that issue. He would like to have considered that proposal but wasn't given the chance.

And there lies a big part pf the problem! This particular CSD had every chance to 'consider the proposal' - all he had to do was read the communications from BA! Because he only listened to the drivel emanating from BASSA, he went on strike and is now left "bitterly" regretting his decision.

This CSD, and many other cabin crew, had opportunities galore to take a cold hard look at the options, but they chose not to. They didn't want to read, or listen to, anything from BA, and are now facing the consequences. And still it is 'someone else's fault', even if it is BASSA they are now blaming. It is a self-inflicted problem, all of it!

[gcal]

Everything just seems to be going around and around with the same old things trotted out.
Meanwhile the rest of the airline business, and the vast majority of BA employees by a long chalk, are getting on with running the show.
I don't understand this constant mention of ST as it was made as plain as as the nose on your face what would happen with it. It could not have been made more clear.
Now is surely the time to let go and move on.