British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

[strikemaster82]

A sweeter deal? You call my pay cut a sweet deal when you have been offered a payrise?

[swalesboy]

Part of the longhaul fleet may be geriatric as you say but contrary to what the BASSA numpties would have you believe, they are superbly maintained and could go on for several years yet.

Ps no sign of NLV when I left work today. More BASSA rubbish.

[LD12986]

So how has the result gone down on CF and the BASSA forums?

Triumph at the "overwhelming majority" and calls to "STRIKE NOW. TALK LATER" or bewilderment at the level of turnout?

[ranger07]

Duggie

You've now proved beyond any doubt that you are totally out of touch.

My change of work practice/increased work load/zero pay rise,is the nearest thing to a 'deal', in the sense that I remain an employee.

Your deal is way beyond anything I/we could wish for. Remove your BASSA blinkered glasses and have a look around in the year 2010.

[Colonel White]

Outright stupidity

I've worked for around 20 different companies over a 40 year span. A number of them have had very strong unionised workforces. In 40 yeasr I have never, repeat never, seen a group of employees throw away a deal like that offered to cabin crew, especially when it comes at a time of growing uncertainty in the jobs market and an oncoming auterity period. I don't know whether to believe the suggestions that crew didn't receive ballot papers in sufficient time. To me it sounds like 5000+ cabin crew stuck their heads in the sand and wanted someone else to make the decision for them. At one end of the scale one can only feel pity for them inasmuch as they were either unable to register their vote or found the pile of propaganda delivered by the union too confusing. At the other end one can one consider them to be entirely without backbone. I really don't care which way you vote, but at least have the honesty to voice an opinion one way or the other - the 'none of the above' arguement doesn't wash in this instance.

The fact that less than half the crew responded means that the extremists get to dictate. This is your livelihood that is at stake BASSA are full of liek Duggie Fashion. Barrack room lawyers who will give a you dodgy advice and then melt away when trouble starts.

So where does this leave cabin crew now. From the touchline it is a racing certainty that BA will not improve the offer - for those crew who missed it , it had the words 'Final Offer' Final as in 'you won't see another one' If I remember correctly BA said that the moment that crew ballot for industrial action, the FINAL OFFER (just want to make sure you read it right) will be withdrawn. That means you get zip, rien, nix, not a sausage. No pay rise, no change to payments. But you will be working the current complements, a number of routes will be passed across to New Fleet. Staff travel will not be reinstated (yes, I know there is a pending court action, but I think you need to look very carefully at what constitutes indirect discrimination - Crew Defence are chucking money away) so life is going to get a it tough for those crew who are now shelling out for full fare tickets, unless they have managed to con some poor sap at another airline into adding them as travel companion on a reciprocal deal. As 'heritage crew' (lovely turn of phrase) leave the airline, they will be replaced by New Fleet and more routes will get passed across. On top of that, the staff who have been sacked won't be coming back. That means that the BASSA committe will be toothless as it needs at least 5 members to be quorate and by all accounts is heading at the moment for a massive total of two who are not subject to gross misconduct charges. Oh Duncan can hang in there as Unite can appoint a branch secretary with no reference to the members - bet you didn't spot that in the union rule book.

Now what happens if Dunc and his buddies decide to call for a strike and get 3400 people to support the call ? What happens if there is a majority for further strikes in September ? Simple. All the lemmings that follow the BASSA pied piper (sorry about the mixed metaphors) and walk out will, unless BASSA do some very hasty revisions to the proposed strike basis, find themsleves presented with P45s for failing to show up for work. They will then have to show to a tribunal that the basis of the strike is not a continuation of the previous dispute. BA won't bother with contesting the legality of the strike by challenging Unite in court a) because it is unnecessary expense and b) because it wouldn't sort out the vocal minority. The net effect will be that BASSA will have no senior reps worth talking of and staff will havet work out whether to elect new ones and hope they don't give as much duff advice or whether to ditch the BASSA ship for something more moderate.

In the meantime, passengers will be uncertain of booking BA until they can see evidence that the chances of IA are reduced to near zero.

[ottergirl]

I susupect that the discrepancy in numbers between those ballotted and those voting against can be accounted for in the numbers that have resigned from the union. I received a ballot paper despite resigning some months ago. Bassa is somewhat optimistic to think they still have 7000+ members after the last few months, they've been voting with their feet but the BASSA records have not been updated.

[giza]

I hope like you, we do not respond to threats in this day and age.

Duncun, sorry Duggie, Like Willy said at Waterside, ref ST "its not a threat, if you have a dictionary, look up promise"

[Duggie Fashion]

Giza, it is unlawful and illegal to punish staff for taking industrial action even if you warned the people before.

Col White seems to have a lot of time on his hands. Why don't you practice what you preach and take a pay cut to help your company out? We are in a recession you know.

The consultative ballot was managed via the Electoral Reform Society rather than an online electronic method as used previously, so that BA would not say in the likely injunction application to come, that BASSA had fiddled the figures. Unfortunately with a workforce dispersed around the world, it looks like two weeks was not long enough to get all the votes in. I do not think the union could allow 6 weeks for this consutative ballot, as the idea was just to get a flavour of how people felt. Even with the low return te result was still 2 to 1 in favour and the turnout of 45% was higher than in the last General Election, and most people were in the UK for that.

So I repeat no comfort at all for Willie and his failed strategy to bust BASSA.

And to those engineers who are going to be VCC, every flight I do from now on into LHR will have at least 6 pages of defects. Thanks for interfering in our dispute.

[pcf]

what happens next ?

I am a BASSA member ready to resign. However to be able to vote YES in the 'final offer' I had to remain a member. So what now? I truly expected BA to give guidance to crew who are now in the 'wilderness'. I backed BA, however I did'nt qualify to sign the new offer. Will I get the opportunity to resign from the union and accept the current offer or could I be given 90 days notice with the only option to sign onto 'new fleet' ?
Advice/thoughts/any help greatly appreciated.

[Fargoo]

A wake up call

Really?

BBC News - BA cabin crew reject latest pay offer

He states on video that less than 15% of BA staff have accepted the companies offer and that 85% of BA staff are unhappy with the direction the company is taking.

I think he's been on the magic sauce again, the dipspute is not between all of BA's staff and the company.

I'm sure WW is quaking in his boots at the latest ballot result and is right now formulating a new and improved offer

[LD12986]

I susupect that the discrepancy in numbers between those ballotted and those voting against can be accounted for in the numbers that have resigned from the union. I received a ballot paper despite resigning some months ago. Bassa is somewhat optimistic to think they still have 7000+ members after the last few months, they've been voting with their feet but the BASSA records have not been updated.

And if true, the chances of BASSA being able to do another ballot that will stand up in court are shot to pieces.

[giza]

I would suggest ninety days notice will be imminent followed by either dismissal or the offer of a "New Fleet"

I can not see any of the strikers being offered new fleet for fear on contamination (seriously)

[Duggie Fashion]

pcf. You are on your own if you resign from BASSA. A Mixed Fleet contract is your future.

If you signed up with the BA offer, you have basically signed your contract away. Remember that is the ultimate jewel in the crown to get everyone employed in BA onto new contracts, so that you lose the protection of the 1948 Redeployment Agreement. Only that way can the pension deficit really be addressed,as the recent deal is just another temporary sticking plaster.

[giza]

Rejected

It was NOT a "reasonable" offer, that is why it has been rejected. Why make an offer you know will be rejected?

Duncan, Duncun Duncun, sorry Duggie (soon to be abreviated as DSD)

The answer to your question is " because he did not want it accepted", he only wanted to be seen to be making reasonable offers in the event of any contract terminations. How can he finaly rid BA of the militant fraternity if you accept it, he has a plan, and it does not invovle you accepting any deal yet.


Backin BA, Giza

[JUAN TRIPP]

what happens next ?
I am a BASSA member ready to resign. However to be able to vote YES in the 'final offer' I had to remain a member. So what now? I truly expected BA to give guidance to crew who are now in the 'wilderness'. I backed BA, however I did'nt qualify to sign the new offer. Will I get the opportunity to resign from the union and accept the current offer or could I be given 90 days notice with the only option to sign onto 'new fleet' ?
Advice/thoughts/any help greatly appreciated.

Very simply sign the BA document they sent you before the 31st. It will be fine. BA don't care. They and Bassa don't REALLY know when you resigned from the union. Friend of mine had the same problem as you. Her manager said just sign the document.

[Meal Chucker]

pcf. You are on your own if you resign from BASSA. A Mixed Fleet contract is your future.

Please back this up with FACTS,

BA has never even suggested this, I've only heard this scaremongering from Bassa.

[Wirbelsturm]

pcf, you will also be on your own in the dole queue if the idiots on the BASSA board get their way backed by the militant minority who have got a majority vote, probably as the rest of the crew are too intimidated by the BASSA militant few and the SWP to vote.

Now, the ENTIRE CABIN CREW will be held responsible for the actions of a few disgruntled militants who are ready to blame anybody except themselves for the predicament they find themselves in.

Sadly neither the passengers nor the press will be bothered or prepared to differntiate between those who couldn't be bothered to vote in this, as such voted for IA, and those that oppose the action. The apathy vote is a yes for IA vote and as such plays into the hands of a BASSA board who I wouldn't trust to represent a slug let alone CC.

As to being wannabee CC as certain posters allude to I think the VCC's backed by their colleagues who are prepared to work harder to cover their workload, are prepared to offer their time and effort to keep our employer solvent.

Tha BASSA mantra has always been that 'you will be next'. Rubbish. BASSA have never given anything, the rest of the company has, hence BASSA now find themselves where they are. The militants will scaremonger away claiming that VCC personell are expendable, new contracts for all etc. etc. etc. But they have no idea what changes have occured over the past years and have no idea about how any other department functions. Don't forget BASSA is BA and it is their airline. We are all there merely to serve the great flying god BASSA and to dream of a place under their sun.

Pathetic.

[HiFlyer14]

PCF

The only way that we are going to get a voice in all of this mess is if every single crew member that does not support BASSA joins the Professional Cabin Crew Council www.my.pccc.co.uk.

If we achieve a majority holding then we will be able to approach BA for recognition. It is absolutely incredible (if the figures are correct) that circa 4000 crew abstained in this critical ballot. They have now, unwittingly left themselves wide open and are at the mercy of the militants of BASSA. Abstention is as good as a no vote.

I urge you, if you haven't already, to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council. It costs nothing and you can log onto the forum and take advice and comfort from others in the same position as you.

Do it now!

[pcf]

Duggie, 1948 redeployment agreement - please can you tell me how it affects me and my circumstances, thank you

[DeThirdDefect]

it is unlawful and illegal to punish staff for taking industrial action even if you warned the people before.

Something can't be both unlawful and illegal as the words have two different, conflicting meanings.
And it depends what you mean by "punish". All the strikers had money deducted from their pay because of their having been on strike, arguably a punishment, but no one's claimed BA wasn't entitled to do so.

The consultative ballot was managed via the Eletoral Reform Society so that BA would not say in the likely injunction to come, that BASSA had fiddled the figures.

As there is no legal requirement for a union to consult its members before accepting or rejecting an employer's offer there is no way an injunction can be brought on the basis of the conduct of a consultative ballot.

Unfortunately with a workforce dispersed around the world, it looks like two weeks was not long enough to get all the votes in.

Is that why cabin crew didn't have a consultative ballot on the proposed pension changes?

the turnout of 45% was higher than in the last General Election, and most people were in the UK for that

You should check your facts.
Voter turnout at UK general elections 1945 – 2010 | UK Political Info

So I repeat no comfort at all for Willie and his failed strategy to bust BASSA.

Well done to Willie for successfully implementing his strategy of operating a considerable proportion of the operation during the strike and thwarting BASSA's strategy of grounding the operation.

Thanks for interfering in our dispute.

If I feel the dispute has an adverse effect on my job security I consider it my dispute too.