British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Junior trash
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Erm the SEA leaves at 1510.
But heres what actually left between 1 and 3 on the 1st
874 DME, 766 OSL, 035 MAA, 716 ZRH, 005 NRT, 209 MIA, 177 JFK, 314 CDG, 850 WAW, 780 ARN, 908 FRA, 287 SFO, 354 NCE, 868 BUD, 119 BLR, 556 FCO, 374 TLS, 265 IAD, 754 BSL, 316 CDG, 856 PRG, 502 LIS.
So 23. Thats pretty good maths wise for Unite.
Plus 1 freighter the 288 PHX. The rest went with good loads of pax.
In the hour the SEA actually went there were a further 11 pax departures.
But heres what actually left between 1 and 3 on the 1st
874 DME, 766 OSL, 035 MAA, 716 ZRH, 005 NRT, 209 MIA, 177 JFK, 314 CDG, 850 WAW, 780 ARN, 908 FRA, 287 SFO, 354 NCE, 868 BUD, 119 BLR, 556 FCO, 374 TLS, 265 IAD, 754 BSL, 316 CDG, 856 PRG, 502 LIS.
So 23. Thats pretty good maths wise for Unite.
Plus 1 freighter the 288 PHX. The rest went with good loads of pax.
In the hour the SEA actually went there were a further 11 pax departures.
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I would hardly call operating the flights with VC and pilots a bundle of laughs, and yes just like the steward who rang a radio station today to register his fear about flying with crew that did not know what they were doing and he was considering going on strike as he felt unsafe flying with VC, I know exactly what he means! I would not hope for any help in an emergency situation from any of them I am afraid.
If YOU had such concerns for instance, would you file a CHIRPS report to raise awareness of a potential compromise of safety, or go straight to the media, damaging the company and losing it trust and business? No person breaking the strike would contradict themselves in this way.
ZILLI, I admire you decided to go into work, but please lets put your comments into perspective, surely you cannot know every single crew member to know who is, or isnt crew? Do you?
I have been into umpteen briefing rooms over strike days and I cannot tell a volunteer from an existing crew member, even with my experience and time in the company. Our customers certainly cannot, this i know for a fact as it has been proven, and they are grateful to be getting home, even believing they are being looked after an entire aircraft of volunteers, some of which are crew with many years experience.
Furthermore, why do some feel that BA is unsafe if they have inexperienced crew? Were you 'unsafe' when you first started?
The CAA governs experienced required onboard to operate with passengers onboard. Once someone has a years experience, they are 'experienced', and able to be in charge of an aircraft cabin. You only need one 'experienced' crew member and the rest can then be inexperienced.
This is not a rant, I'd just like for some people to look logically at some things they hear and read, and maybe decide if there should be some doubt once common sense is applied?
Cheers
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The point is that Unite are using commuting crew in their media campaign which is patently unfair, especially using the argument you put forward of people being aware of both sides of the coin.
If it were not so then why has the issue of ST become such a point even before its balloted on.
The argument you put up was that comparing pros to the UK population was meaningless, I would counter that it is meaningful when Unite are holding the travelling public to ransom over its application as a perk.
Very few other jobs, and there are far more worse than flight attendant, give you quite the lifestyle choices.
If it were not so then why has the issue of ST become such a point even before its balloted on.
The argument you put up was that comparing pros to the UK population was meaningless, I would counter that it is meaningful when Unite are holding the travelling public to ransom over its application as a perk.
Very few other jobs, and there are far more worse than flight attendant, give you quite the lifestyle choices.
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Unite said they would call off the strike if staff travel was reinstasted to those who despite the warning, lost it by striking.
My parents once told me I would be grounded I was caught smoking.
I smoked. I got grounded. Should I hold it against them for the rest of my life? No. I was warned about the outcome, I chose to ignore it.
Unite publicised, after BA refused to back down and reinstate staff travel, that they had the best interests at heart of the 1400 or so commuters who wouldnt be able to get to work. That's who they were fighting for.
If I was a member of the public I may well believe that.
However, i'm not. Were all 1400 flying commuters due to report on those strike days, did all 1400 commuters choose to strike?
Yet another over estimation in figures by the unions I feel.
And how did the non commuting striking crew feel? They didnt even get a mention!
My parents once told me I would be grounded I was caught smoking.
I smoked. I got grounded. Should I hold it against them for the rest of my life? No. I was warned about the outcome, I chose to ignore it.
Unite publicised, after BA refused to back down and reinstate staff travel, that they had the best interests at heart of the 1400 or so commuters who wouldnt be able to get to work. That's who they were fighting for.
If I was a member of the public I may well believe that.
However, i'm not. Were all 1400 flying commuters due to report on those strike days, did all 1400 commuters choose to strike?
Yet another over estimation in figures by the unions I feel.
And how did the non commuting striking crew feel? They didnt even get a mention!
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Keepthembodiesmoving
I appreciate what you say but my comment was made more in relation to the comments made generally about commuters and Staff Travel. This has been made into a big issue by Unite. We all know the environment we work in is not going to change. My wife was a Purser for 10 yrs in a job she loved. She left when the job no longer suited her requirements. ( Some of the reasons include the ones you mention.)
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To put into context with flights being full, the obvious reason is flights have been amalgamated.
Instead of the usual frequency, it is a fact that there is a reduction in the schedule. Let's not be carried away or accused of spin ourselves. This is the reason that all my flights this week have been full with jump seats being used for commuters.
Having said that, we are flying to every destination in our network and many of our customers are backing BA for which we are extremely grateful.
PS:Giza, thank you for your very considerate and fair post. No hard feelings.
Whilst having explained that cabin crew should not be underestimated, once again many of us accept change and BA's fair and reasonable Way Forward offer.
Instead of the usual frequency, it is a fact that there is a reduction in the schedule. Let's not be carried away or accused of spin ourselves. This is the reason that all my flights this week have been full with jump seats being used for commuters.
Having said that, we are flying to every destination in our network and many of our customers are backing BA for which we are extremely grateful.
PS:Giza, thank you for your very considerate and fair post. No hard feelings.
Whilst having explained that cabin crew should not be underestimated, once again many of us accept change and BA's fair and reasonable Way Forward offer.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 2nd Jun 2010 at 18:39.
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I smoked. I got grounded. Should I hold it against them for the rest of my life? No. I was warned about the outcome, I chose to ignore it.
Bet your neighbours didn't pop round with a samosa either
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I bet you're not still grounded though are you? Was it a life-time grounding? Did you lose seniority in the family moving from oldest to youngest in pecking order?
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It was BASSA who said he couldnt.
The fact that he did it,does not mean it will be legal to do it.-let's not mention the price fixing saga,not legal,but done- I do not have a problem with it at the moment though.I knew what I was facing when I decided to take industrial action and I knew it might take years to get it back..
BUT
I do feel for the commuters,even though there is not much sympathy here for them or anyone else. Somebody on a previous post mentioned how do fellow strikers feel considering that Bassa is focusing on commuters staff travel rather than everybody elses.
Do you really want to know how I feel?I think it is ok for them to focus on people that might need it more than myself.I can do without. And this is the general feeling amongst people who decided to strike..Most people here praise themselves for backing BA and being compassionate and making huge sacrifices to go into work but you do not seem to recognize a simple thing like what staff travel might mean to them.
Please now do not start telling me they knew what they were doing..I know,you know, they know but they have decided nevertheless to try and stick to their vote. Nothing wrong with that.Let UNITE concentrate on them. I understand.
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Commuters/Staff travel is a distraction, even if ba would back down on the staff travel issue I am sure the union would find something else to strike about.
It is a power game nothing more nothing less and we are caught in the middle.
It is a power game nothing more nothing less and we are caught in the middle.
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BentlyH, respect to your wife; she has the courage of her convictions.
Wirbel, focusing on the commuters and their hardship stories is indeed an easy way of fishing for the sympathy vote. A wrong way.
NS68, your view is compassionate but just like they chose to live abroad despite their long commute, the commuters chose to strike despite knowing that they would lose their staff travel.
Is that decision their responsibility or the company´s?
WW said staff travel would be lost forever for the strikers.
He then offered to re-instate under conditions.
BASSA didn´t accept those conditions and now wants staff travel back completely.
I think that WW offering it back in the first place is part of the problem. In that it caused BASSA to believe there was room for negotiation on staff travel.
fly12345, I do believe you are.
What do you see as a solution?
Wirbel, focusing on the commuters and their hardship stories is indeed an easy way of fishing for the sympathy vote. A wrong way.
NS68, your view is compassionate but just like they chose to live abroad despite their long commute, the commuters chose to strike despite knowing that they would lose their staff travel.
Is that decision their responsibility or the company´s?
WW said staff travel would be lost forever for the strikers.
He then offered to re-instate under conditions.
BASSA didn´t accept those conditions and now wants staff travel back completely.
I think that WW offering it back in the first place is part of the problem. In that it caused BASSA to believe there was room for negotiation on staff travel.
fly12345, I do believe you are.
What do you see as a solution?
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Personally I have very little sympathy with people who are told the consequences of taking an action, take the action, suffer the consequence AND then moan their head off about it. If you could not afford to lose ST why go on strike? Either you believe so strongly about the IA that the loss of ST is worth it and you can bear the loss of ST for your beliefs or you cannot.If you cannot, why take the stupid action of going on strike in the first place?
There has been a serious lack of thought by anyone who has lost ST and is a commuter. BASSA has created a culture whereby crew do not believe what management say - it's a tough lesson to learn that BASSA do not control access to ST, maybe in future crew will think a little bit harder to what the company say will happen, rather than think that BASSA can bully the company into compliance with their wishes.
There has been a serious lack of thought by anyone who has lost ST and is a commuter. BASSA has created a culture whereby crew do not believe what management say - it's a tough lesson to learn that BASSA do not control access to ST, maybe in future crew will think a little bit harder to what the company say will happen, rather than think that BASSA can bully the company into compliance with their wishes.
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NS68, your view is compassionate but just like they chose to live abroad despite their long commute, the commuters chose to strike despite knowing that they would lose their staff travel.
Is that decision their responsibility or the company´s?
Is that decision their responsibility or the company´s?
Honestly..I know it is a subject that comes up a lot and I just hope we could all stop talking about ST but hey!
That's my view on the matter..but if they asked me,would you like your staff travel back or to keep on working on your T&C? T&C matter to me more as I was hoping for a long career..
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Posted by ns68
I do feel for the commuters,even though there is not much sympathy here for them or anyone else. Somebody on a previous post mentioned how do fellow strikers feel considering that Bassa is focusing on commuters staff travel rather than everybody elses
I do feel for the commuters,even though there is not much sympathy here for them or anyone else. Somebody on a previous post mentioned how do fellow strikers feel considering that Bassa is focusing on commuters staff travel rather than everybody elses
For what it's worth, I agree with you. I too feel for the commuters. Of all the cabin crew involved in this dispute, they made they biggest and most costly sacrifice in taking industrial action even though they were warned. The problem here is not one of them believed Willie Walsh. Having said that, I think WW is being very considerate in possibly re-instating Staff Travel to commuters if they accept the the Way Forward offer. I don't have a problem with that.
Most people here praise themselves for backing BA and being compassionate and making huge sacrifices to go into work but you do not seem to recognize a simple thing like what staff travel might mean to them
For many of us who came to work, and I also speak for myself here, none of us need praise or rewards. We didn't make sacrifices either.
It was and is about recognizing and accepting change, and making an informed decision about coming to work.
It was as simple and straight forward as that.
What many of us would like though by way of of backing BA which we did, is to be able to accept the Way Forward offer now before it gets worse.
The above are my personal views and not those of BA.
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Personally I have very little sympathy with people who are told the consequences of taking an action, take the action, suffer the consequence AND then moan their head off about it. If you could not afford to lose ST why go on strike? Either you believe so strongly about the IA that the loss of ST is worth it and you can bear the loss of ST for your beliefs or you cannot.If you cannot, why take the stupid action of going on strike in the first place?
There has been a serious lack of thought by anyone who has lost ST and is a commuter. BASSA has created a culture whereby crew do not believe what management say - it's a tough lesson to learn that BASSA do not control access to ST, maybe in future crew will think a little bit harder to what the company say will happen, rather than think that BASSA can bully the company into compliance with their wishes.
There has been a serious lack of thought by anyone who has lost ST and is a commuter. BASSA has created a culture whereby crew do not believe what management say - it's a tough lesson to learn that BASSA do not control access to ST, maybe in future crew will think a little bit harder to what the company say will happen, rather than think that BASSA can bully the company into compliance with their wishes.
I believed when the company said they would take staff travel away..I believed them all the way,all of us knew it,wonder what makes you think we didn't.Just because we went on strike?I went on strike because I voted YES.They went on strike because they voted YES.you did not go on strike because you voted NO,I suppose. Staff travel didn't come before that to those people.I know it came before a lot of crew who went in to keep the concessions and pay and that is perfectly ok. You seem to think that commuters are praying and asking for it back..-i think they knew it was going to be removed-but the UNION is focusing on that..and fairly so..they don't want any discrimination or punishment towards people who went on strike.That's all-- (and I agree with most saying that there is a bit of power fighting up there unfortunately)
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tiramisu,
That's exactly the point..I so wish I was with you on that.I really do.And I am almost there but at the same time I was so not convinced about that way forward that I hoped improvements could be made if properly negotiated by both sides- little I knew that it wasn't going to happen at all..
As far as the self praising is concerned,I honestly would have never brought it up,if I had not seen a lot of it on this forum. There is posts about sacrifices,posts about need to be rewarded for backing the company..etc I agree it should not be about that. I was aiming specifically at those posts,definitely not at people with a view like yourself.
For many of us who came to work, and I also speak for myself here, none of us need praise or rewards. We didn't make sacrifices either.
It was and is about recognizing and accepting change, and making an informed decision about coming to work.
It was as simple and straight forward as that.
What many of us would like though by way of of backing BA which we did, is to be able to accept the Way Forward offer now before it gets worse.
It was and is about recognizing and accepting change, and making an informed decision about coming to work.
It was as simple and straight forward as that.
What many of us would like though by way of of backing BA which we did, is to be able to accept the Way Forward offer now before it gets worse.
As far as the self praising is concerned,I honestly would have never brought it up,if I had not seen a lot of it on this forum. There is posts about sacrifices,posts about need to be rewarded for backing the company..etc I agree it should not be about that. I was aiming specifically at those posts,definitely not at people with a view like yourself.
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What do you see as a solution?
We do go round in everdecreasing circles on this forum discussing cc salaries, justifying what cc do, pilots' agreements, ST, VCC, commuters, etc. etc.
Does it matter? Not one jot. The only thing that matters is what happens to the entire cabin crew community next. Be you striker or non-striker.
FWIW I don't believe for one minute that many commuters have lost their staff travel. I have certainly flown with or seen many about CRC on strike dates! In fact the first person I saw on the very first strike date back in March was....a commuter that was on my trip when it was announced that Staff Travel would be lost. On that trip he was loudly stomping on the crew bus from the hotel that he would not cave in because of it, blah, bassa, blah. Hey ho. He did. On the very first day. And I'm sure he wasn't the only one.
I would also like to set the record straight about VCC. They are excellent. The lovely lady I had the pleasure to fly with on my last trip was fantastic. She was keen, focused, helpful, and enthusiastic - qualities that are distinctly lacking amongst strikers at the moment. It was an absolute breath of fresh air. What they may not have in experience, they certainly make up for in other qualities, and in my opinion those qualities far outshine experience.
So, let's move on. Let's focus on what is important to us, the workers not the strikers. If we don't, we may not have a job to focus on. What matters to us is securing our jobs, safeguarding our futures, and somehow hanging on to what little we have left.
We are doing a great job Keeping the Flag Flying, and next week I'm sure will be even better. But then what? BASSA back to their old tricks again? Something has got to give. If 80% of us are reporting for work, then 80% need to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council so that we can tell BA that we have had enough of the minority dictating what happens, rejecting good offers on our behalf and making us a laughing stock.
We are the majority and we must make ourselves heard above the loud, hysterical voice that is BASSA. The Professional Cabin Crew Council has been established to voice what we, the moderate, hard-working cabin crew want. But if you don't sign up, then we won't have a voice and nothing will change.
I´m with the PCCC. We're in it together. Doing nothing is not an option now.
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Staff travel
ns68 wrote:
Let's not forget that Unite practically guaranteed the return of ST. Let me quote one of the things which Unite has said:
This is why many cabin crew went on strike, thinking that loss of ST would be only temporary.
This is why Unite is fighting to get ST back, as they all but promised to get it reinstated.
I believed when the company said they would take staff travel away..I believed them all the way,all of us knew it,wonder what makes you think we didn't.Just because we went on strike?I went on strike because I voted YES.They went on strike because they voted YES.you did not go on strike because you voted NO,I suppose. Staff travel didn't come before that to those people.I know it came before a lot of crew who went in to keep the concessions and pay and that is perfectly ok. You seem to think that commuters are praying and asking for it back..-i think they knew it was going to be removed-but the UNION is focusing on that..and fairly so..they don't want any discrimination or punishment towards people who went on strike.
What your Union has said in the strongest possible terms is that no deal could be recommended without the return of staff travel or we would simply be endorsing the punishment of anybody both now and in the future who “dared to exercise their legal and basic human right to protest by going on strike.
This is why Unite is fighting to get ST back, as they all but promised to get it reinstated.