British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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He could form a consultative group, where all things could be discussed. It would not be a negotiating body, so the end result would still be on the terms of BA, but at least it would get a fair representation of what the more moderate part of the workforce would be looking for.
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Originally Posted by HiFlyer14
That offer is not reasonable - at least not to those of us who have come to work. Why shouldn't we have the 3% bonus that was offered previously, or the MTP set at 2008/9 rates? A 4 year pay deal at only RoI is a long time to just keep up with price increases.
HiFlyer14 Up until now I have agreed with pretty much everything you have said, but I have to take you to task over this.
a) Why no 3% bonus? I don't think BA can treat strikers and non strikers differently. (and as an aside, the majority did vote for this, whether or not they actioned it on the day, they gave BASSA a loaded gun, and must have had a suspicion someone might get hurt (although probably didn't realise it would be BASSA shooting themselves in the foot) Also, if this bonus is like the pilots shares, I wouldn't worry about it, it is probably triggered only when we make £1bn, every flight goes on time or early, and every passenger writes a personal letter of thanks to WW!
b) Why MTP set at 2008/9 rates? Have you considered that this might actually be a good thing? If you were going to pick a year as a datum for the amount of box payments etc, given the fairly flat inflation recently, why not pick a year with a decent amount of flying done, rather than 09/10 with a reduced programme
c) Regarding pay rises set to inflation, why do crew deserve a pay rise? For loyalty and increased skills? They still get the increments for that, worth up to 7% I think? Why should someone get paid more in real terms just for doing the same job? When most people in the real world get a pay rise, it is because they have done something for it, increased productivity, more responsibility etc etc. I do take your point that if we were suddenly making loads of profit, RPI could be a cap on your rises, and 4 yrs is a long time but consider the other side of the argument, if we are still loosing money hand over fist, and inflation is going up, you would be getting a pay rise still when staff all around you would probably getting a pay freeze at best. Not a bad deal.
However, despite all that, I do have huge sympathy that due to collective bargaining, what ever deal that gets done in the end will apply to all the crew, which is a real shame, especially if BASSA go for a 10 or 12 or indefinite strike on the 14th.
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Eddy, have a look at the BASSA constitution. Only a handful of the lower rep positions are open to new candidates. Any position of power requires many previous years as a rep. You cannot vote out the upper echelons of BASSA - they have ensured that.
So, Hiflyer could become a deputy s/h convener, amongst 54 other reps. How long do you think it would take them to oust her
So, Hiflyer could become a deputy s/h convener, amongst 54 other reps. How long do you think it would take them to oust her
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A 4 year pay deal at only RoI is a long time to just keep up with price increases.
In my group we are negoting a pay deal for our increased responsibilties after a reorganisation after a round of redundancies and in order to get it accepted, we have said we'll have the rise when the company is back in profit
The whole of my airline appreciates the current airline climate and prefer to look long and be sure of a job in 5 yrs time.
I am a BA hater after it took over my company 20+ years ago and initially was pleased to see a strike at BA but after reading every page of this thread and the previous one I am on the side of BA and have to say the striking CC have lost touch with the real world.
For me the most telling thing about this whole saga is that despite many requests on this thread, not one striker has said what precisly they are on strike for and what they will accept as a settlement
Last edited by etsd0001; 1st Apr 2010 at 11:13. Reason: Added last para
Latest Unite/BASSA Missive
So what's going to happen now?
One question we were continually asked at Bedfont and Gatwick was "What do you think will happen now"? The answer is: only one individual really knows and it's no secret who that is. The Easter break will be a time for reflection for everyone but for one person, Willie Walsh, his next move is crucial. If he continues along his dogmatic path he has so far followed, i.e. the dismantling of this proud company and its cabin crew work force,then that will be met with greater determination. If however he now realises that confrontation is not the best way to go forward and that your Union will not be neutralised then there is some hope still that a way can be found out of this mess. The joint General Secretaries of Unite will eagerly be waiting and watching for his next move. The spotlight is well and truly on him.
One point that was also continually made was how resolute you all felt and how, if there was a need, you would all want a longer strike period next time. Most members I spoke to were even more determined than ever to see this through now to the bitter end should there be a need.
Meanwhile, over the forthcoming lull it will be a good time for Unite lawyers to pursue the legality of the staff travel withdrawal and the deduction of extra days pay. Both issues are complex and probably without precedence. I know many of you want quick action on this and some have even considered seeking private legal opinion. No problem with that but obviously we do not want you spending your own money and AMICUS believe this expense should be picked up by Unite. We will update as soon as we get any news, but an element of patience maybe needed. Lawyers never hurry!
Obviously AMICUS is finding it hard to function at present - with no de-rostering facilities except for reps attending members' disciplinaries it is almost impossible for us to provide a service. BA will have all the reps flying or doing return to work courses, SEP etc so please bear with us as we try and cope using just a skeleton staff. That phone that is not answered or "e mail" that is not replied to is because there simply is no one there.
While on the subject of the reps, We would like to thank them all for their superb efforts over the last fortnight. Their dedication, hard work and cheerfulness has been truly inspirational and those of you that went to either picket will have seen first hand how tirelessly they worked and the amount of organisation that was required.
The whole Strike experience has already been written about and the resulting emotion will remain with us. forever. The level of support you showed was so uplifting, the camaraderie was special and heart warming. We will never forget that open decked bus yesterday at Bedfont, crammed to the rafters with smiling faces and billowing flags, everyone completely impervious as the rain lashed down. It made
us remember that the best thing about this job is always the crew. To everyone who helped out, whether it was serving tea, directing the madhouse that was the car park or those who just sang and danced on the picket line we would like to say, you were all wonderful. The stories that will surely flow from the whole experience will soon become legendary. Someone said yesterday, if I could just fly with everyone who picketed this job would be truly great again.
Some of you will be going back to work today and that will not be easy as you will be mixing with people who chose or indeed, perhaps I should say, were intimidated to work. Please all of you be professional and careful even though the emotions are bound to be running high. Although we would have wanted all members whichever way they voted, to have withdrawn their labour, everyone handles "pressure" differently. Some of the younger ones will have been totally new to the whole business of striking and the bullying and threatening attitude shown by BA must have made it very hard to stand up and be counted. We hope if there is a next time these people can take comfort that all those who did participate in industrial action are still alive and well and very proud of themselves and that perhaps it might be better to join them.
However what does leave a nasty taste in many mouths are the more senior members who went to work. Most if not all of these people have enjoyed many years working for BA earning a reasonable wage with good terms and conditions all obtained and protected by your union To go on strike was a very democratically taken decision and for them to suddenly turn their backs on their union and colleagues is a very, for the want of a better word, shameful way to behave. Most will regret their actions if they haven't already.
As for the people from outside the cabin crew community, especially our flight deck colleagues, who chose to get involved in a dispute that was none of their business, well quite frankly you are beneath contempt. Those pilots who took "Willie's shilling" have set back Flight Deck/Cabin Crew relationships decades and quite frankly those that sat back and did nothing to stop this disgraceful behaviour are almost equally guilty. One of the saddest things was meeting some pilots both current and retired, who were aghast at the actions of both their colleagues and their union. I know there are some good guys and lasses out there in F/D land, who are appalled at what has happened but you simply cannot be surprised that right now the cabin crew who went on strike do feel bitter and bruised.
With the whole world watching and at a time when the trade union movement and worker's rights are under threat we sincerely hope the actions of these strike breakers do not come back to haunt them.
On a more practical level the forms to claim back your GBP30 strike pay can now be downloaded from the website. If you have no access you canwrite to Nikki Everley at Unite House, 99 New Rd, Harlington, UB3 5BQ or request a form via e [email protected]
So, will Willie take this opportunity to look for a settlement?
Unfortunately the gap between us is now wider than it was a fortnight ago with the removal of staff travel and draconian deductions in strikers' pay. The ball is firmly in his court. If this dispute is still about cost savings then we can still talk and negotiate our way through this minefield - but if it is - as we think and is being reported in the media - about destroying the union's ability to represent and resist imposition, then he will find the Picket spirit more defiant and more united than ever. (Indeed, it was a shame he could not have heard some of those chants on the picket lines.)
During tough times it is even more important to support not only yourselves and your colleagues but also your union and reps. We are all in this together.
Have a Happy Easter - and look after yourself.
My Bold it would appear whilst they are urging their members to behave professionally on board, it does'nt stop them from setting up Volunteer Pilots and Non striking senior CC as scapegoats and legitimate targets for abuse.
So what's going to happen now?
One question we were continually asked at Bedfont and Gatwick was "What do you think will happen now"? The answer is: only one individual really knows and it's no secret who that is. The Easter break will be a time for reflection for everyone but for one person, Willie Walsh, his next move is crucial. If he continues along his dogmatic path he has so far followed, i.e. the dismantling of this proud company and its cabin crew work force,then that will be met with greater determination. If however he now realises that confrontation is not the best way to go forward and that your Union will not be neutralised then there is some hope still that a way can be found out of this mess. The joint General Secretaries of Unite will eagerly be waiting and watching for his next move. The spotlight is well and truly on him.
One point that was also continually made was how resolute you all felt and how, if there was a need, you would all want a longer strike period next time. Most members I spoke to were even more determined than ever to see this through now to the bitter end should there be a need.
Meanwhile, over the forthcoming lull it will be a good time for Unite lawyers to pursue the legality of the staff travel withdrawal and the deduction of extra days pay. Both issues are complex and probably without precedence. I know many of you want quick action on this and some have even considered seeking private legal opinion. No problem with that but obviously we do not want you spending your own money and AMICUS believe this expense should be picked up by Unite. We will update as soon as we get any news, but an element of patience maybe needed. Lawyers never hurry!
Obviously AMICUS is finding it hard to function at present - with no de-rostering facilities except for reps attending members' disciplinaries it is almost impossible for us to provide a service. BA will have all the reps flying or doing return to work courses, SEP etc so please bear with us as we try and cope using just a skeleton staff. That phone that is not answered or "e mail" that is not replied to is because there simply is no one there.
While on the subject of the reps, We would like to thank them all for their superb efforts over the last fortnight. Their dedication, hard work and cheerfulness has been truly inspirational and those of you that went to either picket will have seen first hand how tirelessly they worked and the amount of organisation that was required.
The whole Strike experience has already been written about and the resulting emotion will remain with us. forever. The level of support you showed was so uplifting, the camaraderie was special and heart warming. We will never forget that open decked bus yesterday at Bedfont, crammed to the rafters with smiling faces and billowing flags, everyone completely impervious as the rain lashed down. It made
us remember that the best thing about this job is always the crew. To everyone who helped out, whether it was serving tea, directing the madhouse that was the car park or those who just sang and danced on the picket line we would like to say, you were all wonderful. The stories that will surely flow from the whole experience will soon become legendary. Someone said yesterday, if I could just fly with everyone who picketed this job would be truly great again.
Some of you will be going back to work today and that will not be easy as you will be mixing with people who chose or indeed, perhaps I should say, were intimidated to work. Please all of you be professional and careful even though the emotions are bound to be running high. Although we would have wanted all members whichever way they voted, to have withdrawn their labour, everyone handles "pressure" differently. Some of the younger ones will have been totally new to the whole business of striking and the bullying and threatening attitude shown by BA must have made it very hard to stand up and be counted. We hope if there is a next time these people can take comfort that all those who did participate in industrial action are still alive and well and very proud of themselves and that perhaps it might be better to join them.
However what does leave a nasty taste in many mouths are the more senior members who went to work. Most if not all of these people have enjoyed many years working for BA earning a reasonable wage with good terms and conditions all obtained and protected by your union To go on strike was a very democratically taken decision and for them to suddenly turn their backs on their union and colleagues is a very, for the want of a better word, shameful way to behave. Most will regret their actions if they haven't already.
As for the people from outside the cabin crew community, especially our flight deck colleagues, who chose to get involved in a dispute that was none of their business, well quite frankly you are beneath contempt. Those pilots who took "Willie's shilling" have set back Flight Deck/Cabin Crew relationships decades and quite frankly those that sat back and did nothing to stop this disgraceful behaviour are almost equally guilty. One of the saddest things was meeting some pilots both current and retired, who were aghast at the actions of both their colleagues and their union. I know there are some good guys and lasses out there in F/D land, who are appalled at what has happened but you simply cannot be surprised that right now the cabin crew who went on strike do feel bitter and bruised.
With the whole world watching and at a time when the trade union movement and worker's rights are under threat we sincerely hope the actions of these strike breakers do not come back to haunt them.
On a more practical level the forms to claim back your GBP30 strike pay can now be downloaded from the website. If you have no access you canwrite to Nikki Everley at Unite House, 99 New Rd, Harlington, UB3 5BQ or request a form via e [email protected]
So, will Willie take this opportunity to look for a settlement?
Unfortunately the gap between us is now wider than it was a fortnight ago with the removal of staff travel and draconian deductions in strikers' pay. The ball is firmly in his court. If this dispute is still about cost savings then we can still talk and negotiate our way through this minefield - but if it is - as we think and is being reported in the media - about destroying the union's ability to represent and resist imposition, then he will find the Picket spirit more defiant and more united than ever. (Indeed, it was a shame he could not have heard some of those chants on the picket lines.)
During tough times it is even more important to support not only yourselves and your colleagues but also your union and reps. We are all in this together.
Have a Happy Easter - and look after yourself.
My Bold it would appear whilst they are urging their members to behave professionally on board, it does'nt stop them from setting up Volunteer Pilots and Non striking senior CC as scapegoats and legitimate targets for abuse.
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Direct balloting of Cabin Crew by BA
Litebulbs mentioned:
Just to be clear, shutting down the business and restarting is not an option for many reasons and one is that it isn't broken.
As the leaders of the two sides in this dispute retire to look at their options, one side will look in the locker and see that they have played virtually all their cards but the other still has options.
The BASSA/UNITE PR offensive, courtesy of Sky News and the BBC, has run out of steam and strike action has and will not ground the airline by any means.
On the other hand, Mr Walsh keeps the Cranebank training program cranked up to maximum negating the effect of further strike action and looks at the other options.
Way down the list of options is posting a new contract with the requirement for the recipient to sign within 90 days or walk away. Before you say that it can't be done, this and former threads have concluded that it can and furthermore under current legislation, if one does not sign, one will be deemed not to have made best efforts to reduce their losses and the subsequent dismissal settlement will be minimal.
BASSA/UNITE have gone nuclear and it went "phut", if Mr Walsh does opt to go nuclear then there really will be tears before bedtime and a flurry of pink petticoats in the BN postcode area.
If he shuts down the business and restarts, the crew will still be there.
As the leaders of the two sides in this dispute retire to look at their options, one side will look in the locker and see that they have played virtually all their cards but the other still has options.
The BASSA/UNITE PR offensive, courtesy of Sky News and the BBC, has run out of steam and strike action has and will not ground the airline by any means.
On the other hand, Mr Walsh keeps the Cranebank training program cranked up to maximum negating the effect of further strike action and looks at the other options.
Way down the list of options is posting a new contract with the requirement for the recipient to sign within 90 days or walk away. Before you say that it can't be done, this and former threads have concluded that it can and furthermore under current legislation, if one does not sign, one will be deemed not to have made best efforts to reduce their losses and the subsequent dismissal settlement will be minimal.
BASSA/UNITE have gone nuclear and it went "phut", if Mr Walsh does opt to go nuclear then there really will be tears before bedtime and a flurry of pink petticoats in the BN postcode area.
Last edited by Rover90; 1st Apr 2010 at 11:57.
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Way down the list of options is posting a new contract with the requirement for the recipient to sign within 90 days or walk away. Before you say that it can't be done, this and former threads have concluded that it can and furthermore under current legislation, if one does not sign, one will be deemed not to have made best efforts to reduce their losses and the subsequent dismissal settlement will be minimal.
When BA took over my airline, the Engineering section agreed not to sign the new contracts and everybody handed in their new contracts for the unions to hold. Over the following weeks one-by-one people went back to the union reps and asked for their contract back so that could sign it and send it to BA. On the last day for signing there were about 8 of us left in my union that hadn't signed the new contract. With a young family it was at that point I capitulated. In the end there were about 3 people who held out who were subsequently 'let go'.
Yes they won their court case, but they weren't on such good money as they had been.
This story could be repeated very soon
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Ok - Apologies I don't seem to be putting my point across very well, so let me try one last time.
BA wanted to make savings and needed to change the crew complements - 1 crew member off a plane.
BASSA didn't want it. They refused. BA made several, acceptable offers to appease BASSA but they still refused. BA imposed 1 crew member off a plane. More decent offers. Strike action.
Many cabin crew, myself included, thought that BA were being reasonable. One crew member off a plane is no real hardship and therefore we crossed the picket line and went to work. Others didn't and went on strike.
Now, we are working to the new crew levels and have been since November so BA have achieved their savings. Granted they still want to bring in New Fleet - but that is something for the future and not what this strike is about (allegedly).
So, this latest "offer" is simply to appease BASSA. It offers 184 crew back on aeroplanes - which is what BASSA want, NOT what the cabin crew want. It is certainly not what the majority who have worked over the past 2 weekends want. In exchange for appeasing BASSA and getting 184 crew members back, we have to have:
a. Incidentals removed (lang and tel allowances etc)
b. 4 yr pay deal at RPI
c. The virtual immediate implementation of New Fleet to permit the 184 back on.
d. The loss of the bonus from the previous offer.
Those of us that are working, and we are the majority now, don't want 184 crew back on. We can work quite happily as we are. So why do we need this offer? Let's just carry on working (very well as it happens) to the 1 crew member off levels.
If this offer goes through, BASSA will claim they have won - after all, they got 184 crew back on planes.
And we the cabin crew will have lost. Because to get that 184 crew back on planes, that we don't want or need anyway, we will have given up EVEN MORE than we needed to!
Does that make sense now?? Sorry, if I'm speaking gibberish - it's been a roller coaster ride this past couple of weeks and stress levels have been quite high.
I am still BA cabin crew and this is still my own viewpoint (if a little onesided) and it is still not the viewpoint of BA.
BA wanted to make savings and needed to change the crew complements - 1 crew member off a plane.
BASSA didn't want it. They refused. BA made several, acceptable offers to appease BASSA but they still refused. BA imposed 1 crew member off a plane. More decent offers. Strike action.
Many cabin crew, myself included, thought that BA were being reasonable. One crew member off a plane is no real hardship and therefore we crossed the picket line and went to work. Others didn't and went on strike.
Now, we are working to the new crew levels and have been since November so BA have achieved their savings. Granted they still want to bring in New Fleet - but that is something for the future and not what this strike is about (allegedly).
So, this latest "offer" is simply to appease BASSA. It offers 184 crew back on aeroplanes - which is what BASSA want, NOT what the cabin crew want. It is certainly not what the majority who have worked over the past 2 weekends want. In exchange for appeasing BASSA and getting 184 crew members back, we have to have:
a. Incidentals removed (lang and tel allowances etc)
b. 4 yr pay deal at RPI
c. The virtual immediate implementation of New Fleet to permit the 184 back on.
d. The loss of the bonus from the previous offer.
Those of us that are working, and we are the majority now, don't want 184 crew back on. We can work quite happily as we are. So why do we need this offer? Let's just carry on working (very well as it happens) to the 1 crew member off levels.
If this offer goes through, BASSA will claim they have won - after all, they got 184 crew back on planes.
And we the cabin crew will have lost. Because to get that 184 crew back on planes, that we don't want or need anyway, we will have given up EVEN MORE than we needed to!
Does that make sense now?? Sorry, if I'm speaking gibberish - it's been a roller coaster ride this past couple of weeks and stress levels have been quite high.
I am still BA cabin crew and this is still my own viewpoint (if a little onesided) and it is still not the viewpoint of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 1st Apr 2010 at 11:51.
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An anecdotal example
etsd0001. Many thanks for supporting our perception of what actually happens when new contracts are issued.
New crew levels imposed in November 2009 have not been a problem in the slightest for me and I am really surprised at just how much it saves (c£60m pa) for such a small change. Only downside is that the rest of the Pursers/Main Crew have to sort out their own problems during the service but one BA team building course in the distant past did say "You own the problem". In all seriousness, I can still do resets etc but not immediately so no change really. The re-instatement of 184 CSD's is absolute madness given what we will have to concede to achieve this.
Looking at the other options open to Mr Walsh, if you need confirmation as to what happens after 12 weeks, then take a look at the Leeds Refuse Collectors, many similarities, who were locked in a bitter dispute with the council but settled their dispute after just over 11 weeks because their action was at the end of the road (pardon the pun)
Rubbish and industrial relations moulder amid Leeds bin strike | Politics | The Guardian
New crew levels imposed in November 2009 have not been a problem in the slightest for me and I am really surprised at just how much it saves (c£60m pa) for such a small change. Only downside is that the rest of the Pursers/Main Crew have to sort out their own problems during the service but one BA team building course in the distant past did say "You own the problem". In all seriousness, I can still do resets etc but not immediately so no change really. The re-instatement of 184 CSD's is absolute madness given what we will have to concede to achieve this.
Looking at the other options open to Mr Walsh, if you need confirmation as to what happens after 12 weeks, then take a look at the Leeds Refuse Collectors, many similarities, who were locked in a bitter dispute with the council but settled their dispute after just over 11 weeks because their action was at the end of the road (pardon the pun)
Rubbish and industrial relations moulder amid Leeds bin strike | Politics | The Guardian
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I think giving back 184 crew would be a brilliant move for WW and I wonder if BASSA will fall for it in the end. Why?
Because they will all be hired onto new fleet contracts, thus setting the precedent that every new joiner is now on the new fleet, at a time when, let's face it, none of the crew have the stomach for another fight.
And especially as BA would only be doing it at BASSA's insistence.
For what it's worth, I think new fleet is now inevitable. It wasn't last year - in fact it was off the table - but now the chances of stopping it are very small, IMHO. But if BASSA insist on 184 crew members back on, it'll be game over.
Because they will all be hired onto new fleet contracts, thus setting the precedent that every new joiner is now on the new fleet, at a time when, let's face it, none of the crew have the stomach for another fight.
And especially as BA would only be doing it at BASSA's insistence.
For what it's worth, I think new fleet is now inevitable. It wasn't last year - in fact it was off the table - but now the chances of stopping it are very small, IMHO. But if BASSA insist on 184 crew members back on, it'll be game over.
Controversial, moi?
A few comments from another forum regarding flight crew and the changed environment where captains are now speaking to the cabin crew at the beginning or their briefing and clearly being seen as the person running the show:
Anybody in any doubt that there are some CC who really need to be let go?
from somewhere else.... wrote:
for f/d.
For example, i know i must serve them their food, does anyone know when?
Must i do tea/coffee or will water suffice
must i get them crew purchase/duty free or is that a nicety and so on.
There will be no more niceties, but i want to stay on the correct side of my jpm's.
......
And i will never ever shake hands ever with them. yuk
Also from somewhere else... wrote:
I will never be part of one team for BA Sorry but if BA went bust i wouldnt give a s**t!!!! But some will of course guess who? The scabby pilots!!! Be one team? kiss my a**e !!!!!
And there's more... wrote:
Just give them the blank stare...fixed pencil thin grin and then sniff. They will soon bugger off. Has worked for me for years. If they ask for anything from the front do what you would do for a pax. Wait five minutes and then say; "sorry don't have that."
for f/d.
For example, i know i must serve them their food, does anyone know when?
Must i do tea/coffee or will water suffice
must i get them crew purchase/duty free or is that a nicety and so on.
There will be no more niceties, but i want to stay on the correct side of my jpm's.
......
And i will never ever shake hands ever with them. yuk
Also from somewhere else... wrote:
I will never be part of one team for BA Sorry but if BA went bust i wouldnt give a s**t!!!! But some will of course guess who? The scabby pilots!!! Be one team? kiss my a**e !!!!!
And there's more... wrote:
Just give them the blank stare...fixed pencil thin grin and then sniff. They will soon bugger off. Has worked for me for years. If they ask for anything from the front do what you would do for a pax. Wait five minutes and then say; "sorry don't have that."
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However what does leave a nasty taste in many mouths are the more senior members who went to work. Most if not all of these people have enjoyed many years working for BA earning a reasonable wage with good terms and conditions all obtained and protected by your union To go on strike was a very democratically taken decision and for them to suddenly turn their backs on their union and colleagues is a very, for the want of a better word, shameful way to behave. Most will regret their actions if they haven't already.
As for the people from outside the cabin crew community, especially our flight deck colleagues, who chose to get involved in a dispute that was none of their business, well quite frankly you are beneath contempt. Those pilots who took "Willie's shilling" have set back Flight Deck/Cabin Crew relationships decades and quite frankly those that sat back and did nothing to stop this disgraceful behaviour are almost equally guilty. One of the saddest things was meeting some pilots both current and retired, who were aghast at the actions of both their colleagues and their union. I know there are some good guys and lasses out there in F/D land, who are appalled at what has happened but you simply cannot be surprised that right now the cabin crew who went on strike do feel bitter and bruised.
As for the people from outside the cabin crew community, especially our flight deck colleagues, who chose to get involved in a dispute that was none of their business, well quite frankly you are beneath contempt. Those pilots who took "Willie's shilling" have set back Flight Deck/Cabin Crew relationships decades and quite frankly those that sat back and did nothing to stop this disgraceful behaviour are almost equally guilty. One of the saddest things was meeting some pilots both current and retired, who were aghast at the actions of both their colleagues and their union. I know there are some good guys and lasses out there in F/D land, who are appalled at what has happened but you simply cannot be surprised that right now the cabin crew who went on strike do feel bitter and bruised.
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b) Why MTP set at 2008/9 rates? Have you considered that this might actually be a good thing? If you were going to pick a year as a datum for the amount of box payments etc, given the fairly flat inflation recently, why not pick a year with a decent amount of flying done, rather than 09/10 with a reduced programme
MTP was originally offered, about a year ago now, at 2008/9 levels. It was a fair offer and many of us tried to secure it. But BF wouldn't budge on it without BASSA approval, even though at one point it was offered to those who wanted it; others could have retained the allowances.
Now it has changed, and is being offered at current rates to everyone. This is a huge loss to our community and it is disgraceful that the Union have done this.
As Fly12345 so rightly said:
We cannot go on like this, we don t need a temporary solution but a long lasting one if we are going to survive and prosper.
I am not being greedy or think we deserve special treatment. I just don't think any of us deserve BASSA back in BA anymore; this offer allows them to walk back in. We should all be praying they don't accept it.
This is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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To go on strike was a very democratically taken decision and for them to suddenly turn their backs on their union and colleagues is a very, for the want of a better word, shameful way to behave. Most will regret their actions if they haven't already.
As for the second statement, I have yet to see a single pilot wearing sack cloth and with her/his forehead daubed with ashes.
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Hiflyer14
I agree with you.
The offers are getting worse.It would have been nice if we could have voted on the original offer.
I feel that I have no control over my work life.Bassa are speaking for us and doing a very poor job at getting a good deal.
If I wanted to be cynical i would say that this was all a game by WW.
He knew that whatever deal he offered, Bassa would reject it.He was able to confidently say no new fleet knowing that Bassa would still say no and not show it to their members.
The deals now on the table are probably what he originally set out to achieve.Bassa has done the deal for him, and Bassa has hastened the arrival of new fleet by demanding crew back.You really couldn't make it up.
Most unions negotiate and the deals get better .Not us.
I am really worried how this will all end.
I agree with you.
The offers are getting worse.It would have been nice if we could have voted on the original offer.
I feel that I have no control over my work life.Bassa are speaking for us and doing a very poor job at getting a good deal.
If I wanted to be cynical i would say that this was all a game by WW.
He knew that whatever deal he offered, Bassa would reject it.He was able to confidently say no new fleet knowing that Bassa would still say no and not show it to their members.
The deals now on the table are probably what he originally set out to achieve.Bassa has done the deal for him, and Bassa has hastened the arrival of new fleet by demanding crew back.You really couldn't make it up.
Most unions negotiate and the deals get better .Not us.
I am really worried how this will all end.
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If I wanted to be cynical i would say that this was all a game by WW.
He knew that whatever deal he offered, Bassa would reject it.He was able to confidently say no new fleet knowing that Bassa would still say no and not show it to their members.
The deals now on the table are probably what he originally set out to achieve
He knew that whatever deal he offered, Bassa would reject it.He was able to confidently say no new fleet knowing that Bassa would still say no and not show it to their members.
The deals now on the table are probably what he originally set out to achieve
The downside to this is probably why the HR1 went in with 2000 employees on it. That is the next saving.