British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Call BS all you like. I have on occasion raced up to crew ops to try and keep an itinerary only to be told "Sorry, you're two minutes out, we've re-crewed!" I frankly DO NOT believe that you've ACARS crew scheduling and received any joy out of it, its one of those 'urban myths' and it simply don't work that way. If the crew keeps the trip then thats because its suits scheduling i.e. they're running out of crew. Our very overworked guys in crew scheduling could not risk cries of "nepotism" and I know some of them (both past and present )well. I would be interested to hear from any other Eurofleet crew who agree with you.
Which I would hope you dealt with appropriately. Incidentally, a link by its very nature, can not be a charity flight. Only single there and backs between 1301 and 1959 qualify. All others would trigger a meal allowance of some sort.
I have also seen some quite frankly obscene foot-dragging to avoid doing a 'charity' manchester/ncl/edi link, things like refusing to board because they found some crumbs, and have called back the cleaners to delay departure and various other 'tricks'.
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I call B.S.
I often send Acars messages for crew who want to tell ops they are willing to ignore their industrial limits to keep a high paying trip and a lot of the time they keep them. I have also seen some quite frankly obscene foot-dragging to avoid doing a 'charity' manchester/ncl/edi link, things like refusing to board because they found some crumbs, and have called back the cleaners to delay departure and various other 'tricks'.
We all know it goes on, don't ruin your credibility by suggesting otherwise
I often send Acars messages for crew who want to tell ops they are willing to ignore their industrial limits to keep a high paying trip and a lot of the time they keep them. I have also seen some quite frankly obscene foot-dragging to avoid doing a 'charity' manchester/ncl/edi link, things like refusing to board because they found some crumbs, and have called back the cleaners to delay departure and various other 'tricks'.
We all know it goes on, don't ruin your credibility by suggesting otherwise
No need to question Ottergirls credibility here with regards to the above, something I know he/she or I would never do.
You are talking about a small unfortunate minority, it's a shame to tar us all with the same brush.
Ottergirl, I agree with what you've said re-trying to stay on trips.
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Well litebulbs if you're a Unite rep, you might like to let your fellow reps know they'll be losing a lot more monthly fees very soon from a lot of your colleagues in other departments at BA who are utterly sick of the behaviour of Unite/BASSA. If the strike goes ahead, just watch and see how many withdaw their membership.
You've shown absolutely zero consideration for any other department in this ridiculous charade and have done untold damage to BA and its reputation with our passengers.
You've shown absolutely zero consideration for any other department in this ridiculous charade and have done untold damage to BA and its reputation with our passengers.
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Diplome
If you find individuals posting terse or frustrated commentary perhaps its due to the reality of the history of negotiations, or lack thereof, in this process by BASSA. There are ways and means of explaining frustrations. Physical violence either real or implied is not acceptable. The transcript does not make good reading for anyone associated with Unite, that cannot be argued
Personally, I expect a vote for a strike tomorrow...and I believe it will prove to be a mistake on BASSA's part. Not only are they pushing an issue that the Court has found reasonable (and BASSA has agreed to in other areas), but they have approached it in a way that has lost the support of not only the public, but of other unions. Did the court find the measures reasonable, or just not contractual?
If BASSA is not finished through this process, what happens the next time they cry "Wolf". They have lost significant credibilty regarding their ability to be reasonable and to represent their clients' best interests. BASSA can't be finished; you may see a change in the top table, but the collective agreement will still be there.
What I don't understand in this is Unite's failure to rein in BASSA. My spouse, as the head of his entity, deals with Unite on a regular basis. They NEVER behave in this manner, They are truly a partner in positive development for both the company's mission and advocates regarding their employees well-being.
What in the world are they doing regarding BA? BASSA truly seems to be the tail wagging the dog. Unite is a service provider. BASSA reps and members appear to be a solid unit, so what can Unite do? However, the ballot may change that, but I do not think it will
Personally, I expect a vote for a strike tomorrow...and I believe it will prove to be a mistake on BASSA's part. Not only are they pushing an issue that the Court has found reasonable (and BASSA has agreed to in other areas), but they have approached it in a way that has lost the support of not only the public, but of other unions. Did the court find the measures reasonable, or just not contractual?
If BASSA is not finished through this process, what happens the next time they cry "Wolf". They have lost significant credibilty regarding their ability to be reasonable and to represent their clients' best interests. BASSA can't be finished; you may see a change in the top table, but the collective agreement will still be there.
What I don't understand in this is Unite's failure to rein in BASSA. My spouse, as the head of his entity, deals with Unite on a regular basis. They NEVER behave in this manner, They are truly a partner in positive development for both the company's mission and advocates regarding their employees well-being.
What in the world are they doing regarding BA? BASSA truly seems to be the tail wagging the dog. Unite is a service provider. BASSA reps and members appear to be a solid unit, so what can Unite do? However, the ballot may change that, but I do not think it will
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You've shown absolutely zero consideration for any other department in this ridiculous charade and have done untold damage to BA and its reputation with our passengers.
Hi Tiramisu, thanks for that. Have you ever sent Ops an Acars message? I'm wondering if I have missed a trick!
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Well litebulbs if you're a Unite rep, you might like to let your fellow reps know they'll be losing a lot more monthly fees very soon from a lot of your colleagues in other departments at BA who are utterly sick of the behaviour of Unite/BASSA. If the strike goes ahead, just watch and see how many withdaw their membership.
You've shown absolutely zero consideration for any other department in this ridiculous charade and have done untold damage to BA and its reputation with our passengers.
You've shown absolutely zero consideration for any other department in this ridiculous charade and have done untold damage to BA and its reputation with our passengers.
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About time....
There is no end to the list of people, companies, unions or groups that BASSA seem to wish to upset.....
BA strike militants enrage U.S. by copying war photo for union poster | Mail Online
Frankly, it's a disgrace that they keep running to the images, phrases or songs or war to illustrate a minor (relative terms) industrial dispute.
BA strike militants enrage U.S. by copying war photo for union poster | Mail Online
Frankly, it's a disgrace that they keep running to the images, phrases or songs or war to illustrate a minor (relative terms) industrial dispute.
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"I'm All Right Nigel"
What is required is some constructive suggestions on how Unite/BASSA can save face.
How about they make a sequel to the classic 1950's film "Im All Right Jack"? For those of you not old enough to be CSD's see the link below
I'm All Right Jack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This could be done on the cheap and perhaps recoup some of the legal costs. The script can be based on the various BASSA/Unite utterings together with those of MR John Hendy QC. Although there is a risk that these could be seen as being too far fetched and detached from reality, but they certainly make you laugh.
Any suggestions for people to take the main parts would be welcome and should be sent to "Miss" Malone in Holywood.
How about they make a sequel to the classic 1950's film "Im All Right Jack"? For those of you not old enough to be CSD's see the link below
I'm All Right Jack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This could be done on the cheap and perhaps recoup some of the legal costs. The script can be based on the various BASSA/Unite utterings together with those of MR John Hendy QC. Although there is a risk that these could be seen as being too far fetched and detached from reality, but they certainly make you laugh.
Any suggestions for people to take the main parts would be welcome and should be sent to "Miss" Malone in Holywood.
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Originally Posted by Litebulbs
Me personally, or Unite have shown zero consideration for any other department?
It's not just crew who're represented by them, but thousands of other BA staff who they seem to have completely forgotten about. Except when sending out flyers urging us not to volunteer as crew, etc.
ottergirl - not having a go at Litebulbs personally but they've said they're a rep for Unite so ............
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Sorry should have made that clearer - Unite.
It's not just crew who're represented by them, but thousands of other BA staff who they seem to have completely forgotten about. Except when sending out flyers urging us not to volunteer as crew, etc.
ottergirl - not having a go at Litebulbs personally but they've said they're a rep for Unite so ............
It's not just crew who're represented by them, but thousands of other BA staff who they seem to have completely forgotten about. Except when sending out flyers urging us not to volunteer as crew, etc.
ottergirl - not having a go at Litebulbs personally but they've said they're a rep for Unite so ............
I do not know whether you are from my historical section, or the T&G, but it is my opinion that times will be getting tough for other sections too. It appears that there are a few things going on in my old department, that would have worried me if I was still there.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 21st Feb 2010 at 23:24. Reason: Correcting an error
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Quote from the Unite site:
(my bold)
Is it not the case that "No" supporters have recieved similar treatment and found themselves banned from their own forum?
We have faced bullying, threats, gloating managers and colleagues, smears on our character, attacks on our families and intimidation - but we are still right here.
(my bold)
Is it not the case that "No" supporters have recieved similar treatment and found themselves banned from their own forum?
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Hi Tiramisu, thanks for that. Have you ever sent Ops an Acars message? I'm wondering if I have missed a trick!
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Originally Posted by Litebulbs
It appears that there are a few things going on in my old department, that would have worried me if I was still there.
However, the lack of confidence from our current and future customers as a result of this CC dispute, and the behaviour of the union, can only harm future business, and in turn staff in other areas.
That's where I believe Unite have let its other members down.
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Look at the bigger picture and recognise changes need to be made in order to remain competitive in this tough industry.
LGW crew have had to accept changes to their working practices. I've no doubt they weren't happy about it when they happened, but if LGW can do it and still receive compliments on their service, both on board (and on the ground), surely there must be a way for the union to "sell" it to their LHR counterparts.
It's not fair to generalise I know, but I've had nicer crews from LGW than LHR - far more friendly and helpful, without the chip on the shoulder and disinterested attitude that seems to affect some LHR crew.
I'm not a union rep so you will have more experience in that area, but surely there's compromise that can be reached somewhere.
LGW crew have had to accept changes to their working practices. I've no doubt they weren't happy about it when they happened, but if LGW can do it and still receive compliments on their service, both on board (and on the ground), surely there must be a way for the union to "sell" it to their LHR counterparts.
It's not fair to generalise I know, but I've had nicer crews from LGW than LHR - far more friendly and helpful, without the chip on the shoulder and disinterested attitude that seems to affect some LHR crew.
I'm not a union rep so you will have more experience in that area, but surely there's compromise that can be reached somewhere.
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So much will happen tomorrow with the ballot result. I can just imagine the debate around the table that has been ongoing over the last few weeks. How much would it be worth to have those negotiations televised for just BA staff to see?!
Oh, and I have always been LGW biased since BCal took over BA!
Oh, and I have always been LGW biased since BCal took over BA!
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winstonsmith - no flexibility on Eurofleet. Everyone works to the agreement, both crew and scheduling! No favours asked nor given. Its fairer that way so to imply we have a choice is incorrect. We could wish to keep GVA or lose MAN but it is just that - a wish, a pipe-dream.
Again winstonsmith, I have to correct you. All our promotion is done on merit; if you don't pass the rigorous selection process, (screening of Ops file, written application and essay, interview, presentation and role-play), you don't get the job. The nod to seniority is the qualification to apply which varies from campaign to campaign and fleet to fleet. On Eurofleet the last Purser campaign was open to crew with minimum 4 years experience so many post 1997 crew applied and were selected. Once you are a Purser you are immediately eligible to apply for CSD provided you merit it.
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They should not have allowed the lying. They should have recognized that it was them (not BA) who failed to negotiate. The lies and deceit are still going on (see the latest communication) and that is just plain wrong. BASSA leadership is now abusing its membership (and ruining their employer in the process) to save personal face.
Somebody needs to step in and say 'enough is enough. New team and back to the negotiating table!'
In my dreams though...
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I see FlexSRS & Ottergirl refer to “charity flights“.
From the context I understand that a flight which does not trigger an extra payment of some sort, is considered a “charity flight“ by crew members.
So what about the salary that every crew member receives at the end of the month? How can that not count?
Looks as if this is one of the problems BA face.
Unless the crew gets some sort of complicated, endlessly bureaucratic extra allowance, they perceive themselves as working for free.
Am I understanding this practice and perception correctly?
From the context I understand that a flight which does not trigger an extra payment of some sort, is considered a “charity flight“ by crew members.
So what about the salary that every crew member receives at the end of the month? How can that not count?
Looks as if this is one of the problems BA face.
Unless the crew gets some sort of complicated, endlessly bureaucratic extra allowance, they perceive themselves as working for free.
Am I understanding this practice and perception correctly?
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Looks as if this is one of the problems BA face.
Unless the crew gets some sort of complicated, endlessly bureaucratic extra allowance, they perceive themselves as working for free.
Unless the crew gets some sort of complicated, endlessly bureaucratic extra allowance, they perceive themselves as working for free.
The other problem of the same type is the hourly rate. You always hear crew going on about the £3/hr, saying you get more in McDonalds etc, but they never mention the £11-40k odd basic that they would get along side it. That is the way Bassa feed it to them.
And to be clear, regarding crew breaking industrial limits to keep trips, I'm not saying it is widespread, but ottergirls post suggests it NEVER happens, and I have to disagree with that.