British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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bitsandpieces:
I don't mean to make light of your situation, and I understand that news of late should have any BASSA member concerned.
Its just that I'm recalling a post from BASSA a while ago where they gave a week in the life of a BASSA rep and references were made to fielding calls from concerned members.
If they counseled members to simply "have a cup of tea" that would certainly free up a lot of time in the schedule
I don't mean to make light of your situation, and I understand that news of late should have any BASSA member concerned.
Its just that I'm recalling a post from BASSA a while ago where they gave a week in the life of a BASSA rep and references were made to fielding calls from concerned members.
If they counseled members to simply "have a cup of tea" that would certainly free up a lot of time in the schedule
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bitsandpieces, they told you to have a cup of tea because they know ba will laugh at their offer and finally some strike announcement might follow, it is all orchestrated and planned, there is very little you can do to change the situation except for saving your union subs, buy some wine with it and enjoy the show..
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I find the current BASSA proposal astonishing.....they so blatantly disregard LGW crew, who already are paid less and work harder, presumably they are in for the pay cut too ???
WW has to once and for all show investors, employees etc HE is running BA and he will make the right decisions to increase shareholder value, if he backs down on his statement of no going back on crew numbers etc, he will appear weak and BASSA still have some control. He has given them over 14 months opportunity to negotiate - enuff, you can't operate a succesful business, when a small group of militant reps effectively place the business into commercial paralysis for an extended period of time.
The only way to restore confidence in BA, no more being held to ransom by TU's, no more consulting on teapots and hot towels........he is so close to a real breakthrough moment, that will create a step change in the way BA can finally run its business.
WW has to once and for all show investors, employees etc HE is running BA and he will make the right decisions to increase shareholder value, if he backs down on his statement of no going back on crew numbers etc, he will appear weak and BASSA still have some control. He has given them over 14 months opportunity to negotiate - enuff, you can't operate a succesful business, when a small group of militant reps effectively place the business into commercial paralysis for an extended period of time.
The only way to restore confidence in BA, no more being held to ransom by TU's, no more consulting on teapots and hot towels........he is so close to a real breakthrough moment, that will create a step change in the way BA can finally run its business.
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More meat on the bones of BASSAS proposals:
Unite ready to agree to pay freeze and 'new fleet' to avert British Airways strike | Business | guardian.co.uk
Originally Posted by The Guardian
British Airways and trade union officials have set a deadline of 5pm on Tuesday to avert a cabin crew strike, as the Unite union considers tabling a compromise deal, including a two-year pay freeze for flight attendants.
Unite's chief negotiator, assistant general secretary Len McCluskey, is considering a range of options as negotiators prepare a final offer to BA that could be tabled on Monday. According to sources close to the talks, Unite's options include:
• A two-year pay freeze
• A partial repeal of staffing reductions on flights
• An agreement to create a "new fleet" consisting of new, lower-paid recruits on separate planes.
BA has demanded proposals from Unite that save at least £60m a year on cabin crew costs, and officials from the union have been drafting these over the past few days. BA estimates that it will reach its savings target after it unilaterally cut crew levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights in November – a move that led to cabin crew voting for strike action last month.
Unite is considering requesting a compromise that would see the 15th person put back on board on some of the busiest flights, with lower crew complements retained on the remaining services.
The union says this will make up a substantial part of the £60m cost savings. The rest would be achieved through a two-year pay freeze and, most significantly, a deal on the "new fleet" proposal. Unite is seeking guarantees that these planes will not dominate routes such as New York and Tokyo, which are among the highest earners for existing cabin crew.
Unite ready to agree to pay freeze and 'new fleet' to avert British Airways strike | Business | guardian.co.uk
Originally Posted by The Guardian
British Airways and trade union officials have set a deadline of 5pm on Tuesday to avert a cabin crew strike, as the Unite union considers tabling a compromise deal, including a two-year pay freeze for flight attendants.
Unite's chief negotiator, assistant general secretary Len McCluskey, is considering a range of options as negotiators prepare a final offer to BA that could be tabled on Monday. According to sources close to the talks, Unite's options include:
• A two-year pay freeze
• A partial repeal of staffing reductions on flights
• An agreement to create a "new fleet" consisting of new, lower-paid recruits on separate planes.
BA has demanded proposals from Unite that save at least £60m a year on cabin crew costs, and officials from the union have been drafting these over the past few days. BA estimates that it will reach its savings target after it unilaterally cut crew levels from 15 to 14 on long-haul flights in November – a move that led to cabin crew voting for strike action last month.
Unite is considering requesting a compromise that would see the 15th person put back on board on some of the busiest flights, with lower crew complements retained on the remaining services.
The union says this will make up a substantial part of the £60m cost savings. The rest would be achieved through a two-year pay freeze and, most significantly, a deal on the "new fleet" proposal. Unite is seeking guarantees that these planes will not dominate routes such as New York and Tokyo, which are among the highest earners for existing cabin crew.
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What part of cost reductions do the union not get, head stuck in the sand or somewhere where the sun dont shine.. Well looks like I will have to wear those heals in and don the lipstick. At least the smile will be genuine.
It has been confirmed though that CC will keep thier Hotline at least !!!
Lets look on the brightside it now looks the final curtain is near.
To be serious for a moment, I do hope that the vast majority of crew who are proffesional and an asset to the business ,do eventually now see what has been going on and make the decision on what is best for them and not one based on the spin and lies of Bassa.
Fingers crossed
It has been confirmed though that CC will keep thier Hotline at least !!!
Lets look on the brightside it now looks the final curtain is near.
To be serious for a moment, I do hope that the vast majority of crew who are proffesional and an asset to the business ,do eventually now see what has been going on and make the decision on what is best for them and not one based on the spin and lies of Bassa.
Fingers crossed
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Question about the union
I've lurked for a while and finally decided to post... I work for BA but am not cabin crew. I have a great deal of respect for the job you do but am amazed at the alleged proposal which BASSA have tabled. I was at the forum which Willie presented and am flabbergasted that BASSA appear to have done exactly what he said would be ludicrous - ask the majority of cabin crew take a pay cut to preserve the working practices of a select few. I can't imagine that this new proposal has been passed through the membership and I would be surprised that cabin crew would be happy to take an unconsulted pay cut.
My question is this: is it possible for BASSA members to take a vote of no confidence in their union reps? This is a genuine question - I really have no idea but I know that if I were cabin crew, I would not want these people representing me.
My question is this: is it possible for BASSA members to take a vote of no confidence in their union reps? This is a genuine question - I really have no idea but I know that if I were cabin crew, I would not want these people representing me.
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Oh and don't forget Fly12345:
...and register your interest with the Professional Cabin Crew Council at www.professionalcrewcouncil.com where we intend to negotiate on the real issues rather than banging on about crew complements and pay cuts.
bitsandpieces, they told you to have a cup of tea because they know ba will laugh at their offer and finally some strike announcement might follow, it is all orchestrated and planned, there is very little you can do to change the situation except for saving your union subs, buy some wine with it and enjoy the show..
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I suppose there is a plus side to all this. With each new offer and statement that BASSA make, they are kindly strengthening my case against them for completely failing in their duties to look after my interests as a crew member at LGW. A crew member that has spent the last three years working with crew complements that are now apparently so detrimental to the health and safety of employees that BASSA felt the need to bring it up in court and in the media on numerous occasions. And if our "caring" union get their way, a crew member that also stands to be landed with a 3.4% pay cut plus a pay freeze whilst, no doubt, still working with the same amount of crew, as I very much doubt BASSA will insist on LGW getting the same crewing levels as LHR. After all, we supposedly have a different passenger profile so don't need as many crew. We know that because BASSA keep telling us it is so. 
Looks like I'm definitely going to need those subs back if you don't mind, BASSA.
Looks like I'm definitely going to need those subs back if you don't mind, BASSA.
Last edited by jetset lady; 5th Mar 2010 at 20:58.
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Aha! Why doesn't this surprise me.
Earlier, in an exchange with another poster, discussions were being had regarding how Unite/BASSA get out of this with some of sort of face-saving accomodation that they could declare was a "victory".
I mentioned this specifically:
"Unite is considering requesting a compromise that would see the 15th person put back on board on some of the busiest flights, with lower crew complements retained on the remaining services."
Seems that Unite may be offering a few "one crew on" on selected flights in exchange for a rather brutal wage reduction for Cabin Crew.
One cocktail in, but this is getting interesting. This is no longer about BA being pressured and is now entirely about Unite trying to get out of the situation BASSA's comedy of errors has placed them in.
...and members be damned.
Earlier, in an exchange with another poster, discussions were being had regarding how Unite/BASSA get out of this with some of sort of face-saving accomodation that they could declare was a "victory".
I mentioned this specifically:
"Unite is considering requesting a compromise that would see the 15th person put back on board on some of the busiest flights, with lower crew complements retained on the remaining services."
Seems that Unite may be offering a few "one crew on" on selected flights in exchange for a rather brutal wage reduction for Cabin Crew.
One cocktail in, but this is getting interesting. This is no longer about BA being pressured and is now entirely about Unite trying to get out of the situation BASSA's comedy of errors has placed them in.
...and members be damned.
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According to the Daily Mail, BA has not received Unite's proposals.
Peace deal in sight at British Airways as cabin crew offer to take pay cut | Mail Online
Peace deal in sight at British Airways as cabin crew offer to take pay cut | Mail Online
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'We believe it meets all criteria BA has been demanding,' its note said, adding that cabin crew would be given a chance to vote on the proposals
Too little, too late I would suggest.
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I've stayed out of this but am now getting concerned for some very good friends at BA
Of course BA could always accept the idea subject to a joint ballot of all cabin crew to see if they accept it.
Other industries do it, Unite does it (in fact one of Unite's fulltime officials has been involved with doing this in an industry he previously covered as an area secretary) and of course it is the democratic thing to do, so really the union would be foolish to refuse
By the time that had been done the clock would have run out on the possibility of a srike and of course if staff said NO that would leave Unite in the cold!
Of course BA could always accept the idea subject to a joint ballot of all cabin crew to see if they accept it.
Other industries do it, Unite does it (in fact one of Unite's fulltime officials has been involved with doing this in an industry he previously covered as an area secretary) and of course it is the democratic thing to do, so really the union would be foolish to refuse
By the time that had been done the clock would have run out on the possibility of a srike and of course if staff said NO that would leave Unite in the cold!
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Worryingly, it would seem that a headline 3.4% pay cut (regardless of whether that is calculated on basic or pre/post expected inflation) has been designed by union negotiators as a means of suggesting that BA are unreasonable when they reject such a pay cut.
BA are not stupid - they know people design their life around their wage, and are not looking for a pay cut. However, Unite is clearly hoping that a rejection of a "reasonable" pay cut will lead to a strike that strengthens their positions.
Instead, Unite should be considering how to take the crew complement as given (or indeed how to reshuffle it to enable high-J flights to be better allocated), and then look at allowance smoothing through monthly payment, and find some means of efficient rostering that allows people to spend more time at home and less time faffing around T5 waiting an age for their next sector. An earlier point regarding how a crew (inc flight crew) should remain together was apt.
I can't see how business simplification in that sense can be anything other than mutually beneficial between the employee workforce and the company.
Before we even start on the disruption agreement...
BA are not stupid - they know people design their life around their wage, and are not looking for a pay cut. However, Unite is clearly hoping that a rejection of a "reasonable" pay cut will lead to a strike that strengthens their positions.
Instead, Unite should be considering how to take the crew complement as given (or indeed how to reshuffle it to enable high-J flights to be better allocated), and then look at allowance smoothing through monthly payment, and find some means of efficient rostering that allows people to spend more time at home and less time faffing around T5 waiting an age for their next sector. An earlier point regarding how a crew (inc flight crew) should remain together was apt.
I can't see how business simplification in that sense can be anything other than mutually beneficial between the employee workforce and the company.
Before we even start on the disruption agreement...
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What greater love?
What greater love can a union and it's representatives show, than to abandon the interests of their members to save face and protect the interests of a few CSD's and Union reps?
Assuming the Unite offer achieves the cost savings sought by BA, and that is a big assumption, perhaps the company could accept the union proposal on the basis that they confirm to their members that they accept the need for the cost savings,they give their members the option of the BA and Unite proposals on an either or basis but no option for a "neither",both sides have to accept the decision of the members and all current and future threats of strike on this issue are forbidden.
Willy would look "reasonable",the threat of strike would be called off immediately, he would obviously get what he wants in terms of the crew reductions as even the BA CC would surely see that the union was selling the bulk of them down the river in the interests of a few, and the BASSA representation would collapse.
Since the CC would have voted FOR the crew reductions then they could hardly complain, hence a happier "ship"?
A WIN ,WIN,WIN,WIN situationOr from the BASSA perspective a totally stuffed one
Assuming the Unite offer achieves the cost savings sought by BA, and that is a big assumption, perhaps the company could accept the union proposal on the basis that they confirm to their members that they accept the need for the cost savings,they give their members the option of the BA and Unite proposals on an either or basis but no option for a "neither",both sides have to accept the decision of the members and all current and future threats of strike on this issue are forbidden.
Willy would look "reasonable",the threat of strike would be called off immediately, he would obviously get what he wants in terms of the crew reductions as even the BA CC would surely see that the union was selling the bulk of them down the river in the interests of a few, and the BASSA representation would collapse.
Since the CC would have voted FOR the crew reductions then they could hardly complain, hence a happier "ship"?
A WIN ,WIN,WIN,WIN situation
Or from the BASSA perspective a totally stuffed one
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Ok I've been reading this thread and I find it astonishing that the union's alleged offer seems worse for the vast majority of cabin crew. Take a 3.4% paycut across the board or no pay cut but let the very highly paid CSD work on a trolley? And as a previous poster hinted, looks like LGW will be shafted again, if the union is asking for additional crew members on busier flights. Does anyone honestly think LGW will get the extra crew member? If that's the case, why would any LGW c/c vote for the union's deal? Surely BA's offer is better? Does anyone know if the union has actually put an offer on the table to BA, as I'm hearing that the union is still working on it's financial calculations over the weekend? Maybe they've run out of room on the back of their fag packet! He He!
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Was going to say the same thing Chickinlikin.
The poor crew at Gatters will be shafted again. Take a pay cut to subsidise us vastly better paid crew at theifrow having a crew member back on certain flights?
I really hope people see through this. I would be absolutely furious and screaming BASSA slurs from the roof tops if based at LGW.
Absolutely astounding that these people are still backed by the community.
The poor crew at Gatters will be shafted again. Take a pay cut to subsidise us vastly better paid crew at theifrow having a crew member back on certain flights?
I really hope people see through this. I would be absolutely furious and screaming BASSA slurs from the roof tops if based at LGW.
Absolutely astounding that these people are still backed by the community.
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Surely If BASSA wish to have a pay freeze or a pay cut, it will have to go to a ballot of the union members? I did not think the Union had the right to impose such negotiated settlements on its members?
Even if the constitution does allow it to, it would be a tremendous folly to do so. Either way, BASSA are stuck. If it comes to a vote, do you honestly think it will be in favour of taking a pay cut so that jobs can be reinstated?
The proposal is: Majority of staff take a cut in pay so that the minority (CSD) don't have to work so hard? That minority will be 'working' alongside you in the aircraft... great for morale.
i.e. Take a pay cut so that people can be recruited to fill the posts that were closed by allowing staff (who wanted it) to take VR or work part time...
How anyone (CSD grade apart) thinks that BASSA is looking out for their intrerests is beyond me.
Even if the constitution does allow it to, it would be a tremendous folly to do so. Either way, BASSA are stuck. If it comes to a vote, do you honestly think it will be in favour of taking a pay cut so that jobs can be reinstated?
The proposal is: Majority of staff take a cut in pay so that the minority (CSD) don't have to work so hard? That minority will be 'working' alongside you in the aircraft... great for morale.
i.e. Take a pay cut so that people can be recruited to fill the posts that were closed by allowing staff (who wanted it) to take VR or work part time...
How anyone (CSD grade apart) thinks that BASSA is looking out for their intrerests is beyond me.