British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Sorry, I may be being stupid, but that link to "Airline Personnel Costs (UK and Overseas) 2008, Table 1.14" says ...
CABIN ATTENDANTS, Average expenditure per head...
BA = £29.9k, VS = £14.4k.
I'm obviously missing some data here. How do we get from there to stating that a CSD gets over £50k? Please excuse me, I'm just trying to understand the facts [and not trying to unravel the rhetoric].
CABIN ATTENDANTS, Average expenditure per head...
BA = £29.9k, VS = £14.4k.
I'm obviously missing some data here. How do we get from there to stating that a CSD gets over £50k? Please excuse me, I'm just trying to understand the facts [and not trying to unravel the rhetoric].
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No fear of that! So far, not a single peep out of any of the BASSA apologists who post here - apart from Romans44 who - like Pontius Pilate, has washed his hands of the matter.
And we all know how Watersidewonker, MissM et al are usually only so pleased to dish out the BASSA party line.
And we all know how Watersidewonker, MissM et al are usually only so pleased to dish out the BASSA party line.
Who else do crew have to represent them and negotiate intelligently?
TheTiresome1
Average expenditure per head
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How can this be used as an excuse to vote yes?
As for finding someone to negotiate intelligently, I'd say there are two options:
1. Try the new Crew Council
2. Start asking difficult questions on the forums, start offering sensible answers, then stand as a rep and negotiate yourself!
As for finding someone to negotiate intelligently, I'd say there are two options:
1. Try the new Crew Council
2. Start asking difficult questions on the forums, start offering sensible answers, then stand as a rep and negotiate yourself!
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As people can well imagine, I'm pretty miffed at this new tax level (trying to keep language clean). LGW are the cc who earn the least amount of money, and we get the biggest increase. Go figure.
No doubt bassa will blame this on everyone but themselves. A vast amount of crew encouraged the chosen people to collect other people's reciepts. The union(s) didn't advice against it, which they should've done.
It seems to me that a lot of crew think they can pull the wool over the tax (wo)man's eyes. How very wrong they are.
If I understand things correctly, we'll have to live with these new tax levels for 5 years. Is this right? Anyone in the know? Advice gratefully received.
Gg
No doubt bassa will blame this on everyone but themselves. A vast amount of crew encouraged the chosen people to collect other people's reciepts. The union(s) didn't advice against it, which they should've done.
It seems to me that a lot of crew think they can pull the wool over the tax (wo)man's eyes. How very wrong they are.
If I understand things correctly, we'll have to live with these new tax levels for 5 years. Is this right? Anyone in the know? Advice gratefully received.
Gg
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Originally Posted by deeceethree
Average expenditure per head
You do understand 'average' don't you?
You do understand 'average' don't you?
So if the average is c. £30k, and senior CSD are cited at £50k plus, then some are getting £10k. No, I know it doesn't quite work like that. However, I'm looking for the source that says CSDs get paid £50k plus.
Come on, please don't patronise me.
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I feel for the LGW crew who once again have been spectacularly underrepresented by Bassa. I'd be asking big questions of the reps.
(Balpa negotiated a 3% reduction in taxable allowances - it can be done!)
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TheTiresome1
If 10,000 staff earn £ 26,500 each and 500 staff earn £ 100,000 each the average would be £ 30,000 per person.
It is the numbers in front of the pound signs that make the difference.
If 10,000 staff earn £ 26,500 each and 500 staff earn £ 100,000 each the average would be £ 30,000 per person.
It is the numbers in front of the pound signs that make the difference.
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That still doesn't define where the £50k comes from, does it?
[edit = BTW, I have been allowed to return after my sojourn on the naughty chair. I am duly chastened, and shall tread more carefully in future.]
[edit = BTW, I have been allowed to return after my sojourn on the naughty chair. I am duly chastened, and shall tread more carefully in future.]
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No, but I could claim that if the £100,000 is what all CSD got paid I could say that their average pay was £100,000.
Until that average is compared to the average of a CSD on another airline it is raher speculating
Until that average is compared to the average of a CSD on another airline it is raher speculating
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BASSA announced the Tax Audit at their Branch Meeting in April 2008 - they communicated the audit and it's ramifications to all it's members then and throughout the period, providing an information pack as to what was to be done - every single Crew member knew what was happening and knew what they must do if chosen to partake ie collection of receipts etc - that CC failed the audit is quite clearly down to the fact that those concerned did not provide sufficient evidence to convince the taxman - hence the increase (or decrease whichever way you look at it).
How much more damage is our community going to allow this morally corrupt organisation to inflict upon us?
We have imposition - because BASSA did not negotiate.
We have a significant tax increase - because BASSA buried their head in the sand and did not negotiate with HMRC.
We may have a new contract - because BASSA threaten strike action.
We WILL end up financially worse off than currently - because BASSA keep threatening to strike.
They are collecting in the region of £150000 per month from cabin crew subscriptions. What are they spending that money on?
Did they spend it on important expert legal advice re the last ballot? No.
Did they spend it on crucial expert tax advice re HMRC & allowances? No.
We have to stop this rot and we have to stop it now. An hourly rate could and should have been negotiated years ago. A reasonable outcome could and should have been achieved by June 2009 A monthly travel payment could and should have been negotiated and that would mean New Fleet would have no impact on us.
We have to bankrupt this Union before it bankrupts us. The only way to do that is to vote no and resign - but how do we get that message across?
I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own view and not that of BA.
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@ interlog ... we digress. TheTiresome1 made a reasonable point in seeking clarity on CSD pay. The dat provided by the CAA can be played anyway you choose.
Let's just leave it and return to the core issue, which IIRC is Industrial Relations between BA and CC [or BASSA, Unite, or indeed the paying pax].
Let's just leave it and return to the core issue, which IIRC is Industrial Relations between BA and CC [or BASSA, Unite, or indeed the paying pax].
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There are a few "difficult" questions on other forums.Funnily enough they have not been answered.
There are a few who are saying that paying tax is good for the country so there is no hope.
I stand by my previous post.At present we have no sensible representation.BASSA are the only voice.
BASSA does not want fresh blood.The same reps got voted in again.
The spin is evident.They have failed and are ready to blame everyone else.
Monday will be a good day to bury bad news.Same spin as politics.
There are a few who are saying that paying tax is good for the country so there is no hope.
I stand by my previous post.At present we have no sensible representation.BASSA are the only voice.
BASSA does not want fresh blood.The same reps got voted in again.
The spin is evident.They have failed and are ready to blame everyone else.
Monday will be a good day to bury bad news.Same spin as politics.
Glamgirl,
I assume that, because the pay structure between LHR and LGW cabin crew is different, HMRC have decided that a greater proportion of allowances need taxing at LGW! I don't think LGW receipts were looked at separately from those at LHR, just that the tax has been applied proportionately differently. In any event, if cabin crew receipt returns didn't stand up to scrutiny, and there was no effective post-review negotiation by BASSA (there we go again, no negotiating skills available!), then it was a given that HMRC were going to have a field day!
I sympathise with the plight of you and your LGW colleagues, but we have known for ages that BASSA doesn't really give a monkey's cuss what happens at LGW, unless they need numbers to make up a ballot vote or a rabble-rousing rent-a-crowd at some racecourse gathering.
I am amazed, but pleased, that BALPA's efforts led to only a 3% increase in those allowance taxes for pilots. But that is what good reps, and a hefty subscription usually gets you - a good result! There is little place for foot-stomping hissy-fitters in real negotiations. BASSA needs throwing out, and soon!
LGW are the cc who earn the least amount of money, and we get the biggest increase. Go figure.
I sympathise with the plight of you and your LGW colleagues, but we have known for ages that BASSA doesn't really give a monkey's cuss what happens at LGW, unless they need numbers to make up a ballot vote or a rabble-rousing rent-a-crowd at some racecourse gathering.
I am amazed, but pleased, that BALPA's efforts led to only a 3% increase in those allowance taxes for pilots. But that is what good reps, and a hefty subscription usually gets you - a good result! There is little place for foot-stomping hissy-fitters in real negotiations. BASSA needs throwing out, and soon!
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BASSA's lack of action on and response to taxation
I do hope that all BASSA members will remember to take into account their union's lackadaisical attitude towards the taxation of expenses when casting their votes in the impending ballot.
Once the threat of purposeless industrial action has been successfully scuttled BASSA members should devote themselves to ousting the current leadership and management of their union.
The only sensible way forward for BASSA is with a new chair, new reps and a new attitude - one that encompasses the real world, and not lalaland.
Once the threat of purposeless industrial action has been successfully scuttled BASSA members should devote themselves to ousting the current leadership and management of their union.
The only sensible way forward for BASSA is with a new chair, new reps and a new attitude - one that encompasses the real world, and not lalaland.
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Two-Tone_blue
I was sent these pay scales form by a friend back in 2006, you can add approximately 2.5% pay increase for 2006/07/08. I am told that a pay point 18 CSD earns a shade under 45k basic, add to that, box payments, overtime, and meal allowances and you can quickly see where 52k comes from.
Just to dispel all conjecture over basic pay scales, they are as follows:
Junior Old Contract: £14,434 - £26,600 with 11 increments in between
Junior New Contract: £10,499 - £15,748 with 8 increments in between
Purser Old Contract: £24,574 - £32,631 with 17 increments in between
Purser New Contract: £18,282 - £32,631 with 23 increments in between
CSD Old Contract: £31,128 - £39,788 with 18 increments in between
CSD New Contract: £27,758 - £39,788 with 25 increments in between
Junior Old Contract: £14,434 - £26,600 with 11 increments in between
Junior New Contract: £10,499 - £15,748 with 8 increments in between
Purser Old Contract: £24,574 - £32,631 with 17 increments in between
Purser New Contract: £18,282 - £32,631 with 23 increments in between
CSD Old Contract: £31,128 - £39,788 with 18 increments in between
CSD New Contract: £27,758 - £39,788 with 25 increments in between