British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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So at least the snow has cleared up just in time for the next BASSA meeting and we all know how pleasent things have been since the last meeting. This goes from taxation to pensions to DA then to court cases then chain of command oh help me I'm still feeling rather lost. When I hear BASSA did this wrong that wrong it makes me laugh as if the credit crunch could be blamed on BASSA I'm sure some of you would believe that. Fact 1 we the 92.49% give or take a few who left under VR will never trust Villie and Billie to do anything for the good of cabin crew. Fact 2 The only way to make this company understand is through taking action as they don't want a settlement.
I don't want you all to think I have gone away but I just thought a little rest to observe the twaddle day in day out anyway 1st Feb and the new ballot something to look forward to for the month ahead.
To all you Cabin Crew on here remember to vote YES again yippie
I don't want you all to think I have gone away but I just thought a little rest to observe the twaddle day in day out anyway 1st Feb and the new ballot something to look forward to for the month ahead.
To all you Cabin Crew on here remember to vote YES again yippie
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BASSA were very quick off the marks when threatening to name and shame cabin crew who wouldn't participate in the tax receipts exercise back in 2008. (because they couldn't afford to / didn't want to / someone else will do it / commute and don't pay uk tax anyway)
They don't seem to be so quick to tell you all how it went!
Seeing as these rates are going to apply from a few days time, and we are potentially talking about £100s per month out of your pocket, I'm very very surprised that there have not been hoards of crew emailing BASSA to demand to know what's going on, and demanding to know how many times they have met with HMRC to try and get the most for you. (Hint: I think you will be disappointed, although, if honest, probably not surprised)
They don't seem to be so quick to tell you all how it went!
Seeing as these rates are going to apply from a few days time, and we are potentially talking about £100s per month out of your pocket, I'm very very surprised that there have not been hoards of crew emailing BASSA to demand to know what's going on, and demanding to know how many times they have met with HMRC to try and get the most for you. (Hint: I think you will be disappointed, although, if honest, probably not surprised)
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What is ironic is that this exercise assessing allowances is actually going to impact the take home pay of current Bassa members over the next 5 years far more than the possibility of a New Fleet.
The difference is that negotiating New Fleet means the reps can walk into a meeting room, chests puffed out, thump the table, and make demands and threats. But dealing with HMRC requires patient analysis, persuasive powers, knowledge of taxation law and an ability to process spreadsheet data.
Look what result Bassa have achieved for their members.
They charge money for this kind of representation?
The difference is that negotiating New Fleet means the reps can walk into a meeting room, chests puffed out, thump the table, and make demands and threats. But dealing with HMRC requires patient analysis, persuasive powers, knowledge of taxation law and an ability to process spreadsheet data.
Look what result Bassa have achieved for their members.
They charge money for this kind of representation?
PPRuNe Person
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Wonker
I don't think they're interested in BASSA's point of view anymore,TBH.
I look forward to their attempts at 'action'.
Fact 2 The only way to make this company understand is through taking action
I look forward to their attempts at 'action'.
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Wonker
The arrogance is frightening. This extra tax will really hit your lower-paid colleagues hard. Still, I'm sure BASSA are blameless yet again. £100+ pcm = easy come, easy go. One crew member down = strike! No wonder BA find it hard to make these people understand logic.
Blind to the truth.
Not going to lose sleep over this one at least if I pay a little more tax Mr Brown will waste it rather than me after all it's only money
Blind to the truth.
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Hey Wonker,
It seems the whole European Aviation industry shares your view that Willie Walsh doesn't know what he's doing, and will soon be replaced.
Err, hold on....
It seems the whole European Aviation industry shares your view that Willie Walsh doesn't know what he's doing, and will soon be replaced.
Err, hold on....
The FINANCIAL -- The Association of European Airlines , AEA, has announced that Willie Walsh, Chief Executive Officer of British Airways, will chair the Association in 2010.
Willie Walsh takes over from Dr. Ivan Mišetić, President and Chief Executive Officer of Croatia Airlines.
"Under Mr. Walsh’s Chairmanship, the AEA will redouble its efforts in supporting a global solution to deal with aviation’s emissions; will seek to minimise the burden of regulation on its member airlines; will continue to support the highest standards of safety and security; and as the global economic crisis continues, will seek to ensure that Europe retains a competitive and sustainable airline industry," AEA says.
Mr. Walsh also welcomed three new members, Air Baltic, Aegean Airlines and Montenegro Airlines, to the Association, which now comprises 36 major European network carriers.
Willie Walsh takes over from Dr. Ivan Mišetić, President and Chief Executive Officer of Croatia Airlines.
"Under Mr. Walsh’s Chairmanship, the AEA will redouble its efforts in supporting a global solution to deal with aviation’s emissions; will seek to minimise the burden of regulation on its member airlines; will continue to support the highest standards of safety and security; and as the global economic crisis continues, will seek to ensure that Europe retains a competitive and sustainable airline industry," AEA says.
Mr. Walsh also welcomed three new members, Air Baltic, Aegean Airlines and Montenegro Airlines, to the Association, which now comprises 36 major European network carriers.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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£100+ pcm
Still, it's only money isn't it, Watersidewonker.
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Fact 1 we the 92.49% give or take a few who left under VR
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Hourly rate versus allowances
Sorry if this appears to be going off thread but it does concern Terms and conditions.
Why would hourly rate pay be taxed differently to allowances?
May be obvious to some but I have never studied tax.
Sorry don't think I made my point clearly so have reposted.Why are allowances going to be treated more harshly than hourly rate?
Why would hourly rate pay be taxed differently to allowances?
May be obvious to some but I have never studied tax.
Sorry don't think I made my point clearly so have reposted.Why are allowances going to be treated more harshly than hourly rate?
Last edited by 617sqn; 15th Jan 2010 at 13:43.
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Because HMRC now know what proportion of each is typically spent on eating and what proportion goes home to pay the mortgage. As the proportions have been proven to be different the taxation will be different.
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In a nutshell, the Revenue will tax you on any part of your allowances that they consider to be "income" rather than "allowances". Remember, the idea of allowances is that they are there for you to feed yourself whilst at work. Of course we all know that everyone views, and treats a lot of their allowances as income these days, hence the Revenue's recent receipt gathering exercise, to find out how much we all do actually spend.
Say for the sake of argument, that your meal allowances for a nine day trip are £1000. Do you actually spend £1000 on food and drink during that nine day trip? If the Revenue reckon you only spend £300, they will tax £700 of your allowances as income (ie at your tax rate), and let you have £300 tax free.
This is why the recent receipt gathering exercise was so important - to prove to HMRC that we do spend all our allowances, and therefore should be given a decent chunk of them tax free. Sadly, many pilots and CC were, frankly, quite selfish, and couldn't be bothered to partake, or up their spend to prove the point. The pilots seem to have got off quite lightly, through some hard work by reps, but I gather the same is not true for the CC.
But in any case, Wonker doesn't seem to mind handing Gordon Brown another few hundred quid out of his pay packet; he's more concerned about imposition! No doubt it's a conspiracy between HMRC, Price Waterhouse Coopers, Willie Walsh, and the pilots anyway.......
Say for the sake of argument, that your meal allowances for a nine day trip are £1000. Do you actually spend £1000 on food and drink during that nine day trip? If the Revenue reckon you only spend £300, they will tax £700 of your allowances as income (ie at your tax rate), and let you have £300 tax free.
This is why the recent receipt gathering exercise was so important - to prove to HMRC that we do spend all our allowances, and therefore should be given a decent chunk of them tax free. Sadly, many pilots and CC were, frankly, quite selfish, and couldn't be bothered to partake, or up their spend to prove the point. The pilots seem to have got off quite lightly, through some hard work by reps, but I gather the same is not true for the CC.
But in any case, Wonker doesn't seem to mind handing Gordon Brown another few hundred quid out of his pay packet; he's more concerned about imposition! No doubt it's a conspiracy between HMRC, Price Waterhouse Coopers, Willie Walsh, and the pilots anyway.......
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I understand the bit about allownces coming back into the UK but if pilots are doing that with the hourly rate wouldn't the same principal apply?
Only asking as someone has posted that allowances are going to be treated more harshly than hourly rate.I wondered why that would be.
Only asking as someone has posted that allowances are going to be treated more harshly than hourly rate.I wondered why that would be.
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Ir's not so much to do with being in or out of the UK, but what the allowances are used for. In essence, with an hourly rate, the pilots earn a lot less in allowances, compared to the CC meal allowance system, and hence they are taxed less.
To sum up, HMRC think that £2.79 per hour (what the pilots get) is a more realistic figure for spending money whilst at work. I doubt they think £1000 for a nine day trip is realistic, hence it will attract a higher rate of tax, because they know you're spending/saving it as income, not on your food down route.
To sum up, HMRC think that £2.79 per hour (what the pilots get) is a more realistic figure for spending money whilst at work. I doubt they think £1000 for a nine day trip is realistic, hence it will attract a higher rate of tax, because they know you're spending/saving it as income, not on your food down route.
I think Slicksters got it about right. From what I'm hearing the issue is not just about how the allowances were "allocated" (hourly rate vs. destination specific), it's also that for reasons various the two communities and their respective Associations handled the receipt gathering and subsequent negotiations with HMRC in entirely different ways. Therefore HMRC has decided to tax the two communities at different levels.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Would cabin crew be better off on hourly rate?
I think I may just have opened a can of worms!!
I think I may just have opened a can of worms!!
To be fair, it depends what the hourly rate is set at. If it is set at about the same level as the pilots, it's probably reasonable to assume the tax level would be about the same. Significantly higher and the tax level will be higher.
It's ok though, BASSA know all this.....
