British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
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There are plenty of ways the company could do it if they wanted to. Another example, which has happened to pilots in the past (an example being at Virgin), could be to make redundant the bottom two thousand and demote purser/csds to fill the role. In the case of the VS pilots, FOs were made redundant and Captains were demoted to fill the role.
Hopefully it won't get to that.
Hopefully it won't get to that.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I can only guess injunction is a nice bit of PR for the company.
If injunction granted, I will be eating my hat for breakfast.
The union need to climb down or the management need to manage these savings, best outcome will be the latter I think.
If injunction granted, I will be eating my hat for breakfast.
The union need to climb down or the management need to manage these savings, best outcome will be the latter I think.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Don't make me laugh....
Unite outraged at shocking mistreatment of Flyglobespan workforce and passengers
All of a sudden you care about passengers? Whatever way the wind blows with this union...
Brian Boyd, Unite national officer for civil aviation, stated: "It is tragic that Flyglobespan has been unable to survive the current difficult trading conditions within civil aviation. However, the real tragedy is that, along with thousands of passengers stuck overseas, the 800 Flyglobespan employees have been thrown into a Christmas of misery with no wages and no job.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Papillon - BA could offer the bare minimum based on the fact that the current state of the company is much worse than during previous redundancy rounds. Its a pretty safe argument given the recent results. they are under no obligation to match previous offers.
They could put all Pursers and CSDs at risk of redundancy and invite them all to apply for a new role of Flight Supervisor.... that might save a lot of cash
They could put all Pursers and CSDs at risk of redundancy and invite them all to apply for a new role of Flight Supervisor.... that might save a lot of cash
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I read that one CC would prefer to loose her job than to accept a 20% paycut (
). Are you sure?
). Are you sure?
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Jobseeker’s Allowance is the main benefit for people of working age who are out of work or work less than 16 hours a week on average. If you're eligible, it is paid while you're looking for work. Find out more information including how to apply online.
Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance
The maximum weekly rates are:
Age 16 - 25: £50.95
Age 25 or over: £64.30
Income-based Jobseeker's Allowance
The maximum weekly rates are:
Single people, aged under 25: £50.95
Single people aged 25 or over: £64.30
Couples and civil partnerships (both aged 18 or over): £100.95
Lone parents (aged under 18): £50.95
Lone parents (aged 18 or over): £64.30
For income-based Jobseeker's Allowance, the amount may be less after your household income, pension and savings is taken into account.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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APYu
I think they'd struggle to justify that given they've only very recently given much more generous terms to those that took VR.
Of course, you could argue the strike has made things much worse, but it'd be a battle - and they'd have to go through the 90 day consultation first.
Of course, you could argue the strike has made things much worse, but it'd be a battle - and they'd have to go through the 90 day consultation first.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Desertia and ICY make a good point as to what will happen if the injunction is granted. I'm in two minds about it. On the one hand, I want it to be granted for the sake of our passengers that are booked to fly with us over christmas. But on the other, if it is granted, I can see the BASSA/UNITE spin on it already. "Nasty BA lawyers twisted everything and lied in court. It's not our fault. We tried our best...etc." And their devoted followers will swallow it hook, line and sinker!
If that happens, forget this dispute. Even when this is finally over, it'll still be, "same time, next easter, next summer, next winter....", and on and on and on. Back into the never ending cycle of strike threats, every time BA try to do anything that the unions don't approve of. Part of me thinks this needs to run to it's full conclusion. Maybe, we can then actually start to rebuild some sort of decent airline, without those that seem to think the world owes them a living, out of the remnants that are left. An airline that we can, once again, be proud of. That's assuming that there are any remnants left to build from!
If that happens, forget this dispute. Even when this is finally over, it'll still be, "same time, next easter, next summer, next winter....", and on and on and on. Back into the never ending cycle of strike threats, every time BA try to do anything that the unions don't approve of. Part of me thinks this needs to run to it's full conclusion. Maybe, we can then actually start to rebuild some sort of decent airline, without those that seem to think the world owes them a living, out of the remnants that are left. An airline that we can, once again, be proud of. That's assuming that there are any remnants left to build from!
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Papillon
VR often gets offered more - to be an incentive to walk rather than be pushed. As has recently happened with the redundancy rounds at Virgin. Staff there were offered VR terms or could take the chance of retaining a role. If they were not successfull in obtaining a role then they would be made redundant under a different package - a compulsory redundancy package - less than the VR one. And it worked because lots didnt want to risk getting the rubbish package so opted for VR.
VR is a lot 'cleaner' for the employer hence is often incentivised
VR is a lot 'cleaner' for the employer hence is often incentivised
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Ronald Reagan
In the 80s RR sacked ALL the US Air Traffic Controllers and the world carried on.
Seems to me that there would be plenty of CC willing to step up to the job if Mr. Walsh did a similar thing here
Seems to me that there would be plenty of CC willing to step up to the job if Mr. Walsh did a similar thing here
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If that happens, forget this dispute. Even when this is finally over, it'll still be, "same time, next easter, next summer, next winter....", and on and on and on. Back into the never ending cycle of strike threats, every time BA try to do anything that the unions don't approve of. Part of me thinks this needs to run to it's full conclusion. Maybe, we can then actually start to rebuild some sort of decent airline, without those that seem to think the world owes them a living, out of the remnants that are left. An airline that we can, once again, be proud of. That's assuming that there are any remnants left to build from!
Join Date: Apr 2006
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From someone who has been there....
I hope you all remember SABENA?
Similar situation:
1) Negotiations with other airline on the table
2) Strong unions in an overstaffed and over paid work environment
3) Daily accumulating losses
The unions PUSHED one workforce, in this case, towards a strike during a very critical phase in the negotiations. Most pilots did not want to strike, however they where forced to do so. Cabin crew refused to strike.
Still the pilots managed to debilitate the company for a couple of days. These few days where the final tool management needed to let the company go into liquidation. (02/11/2001)
15000 people lost their jobs directly, a multitude more indirectly. Suicides and social drama followed.
Two weeks later the company restarted. New contracts, new payscales, new benefits, overall 50% lower wagecost for the new SN.The union's power was broken for good, and all SABENA pilots where asked to lower their pants by writing a HANDWRITTEN letter why they wanted to join the new SN. All of us did write, out of 1000 pilots only 20 got a job!
I am afraid this is exactly what will happen at BA. If the strike continues there is no way in the world that BA will recover from it. A 12 day strike in this season will finish-off the company.
And all your management will do is put the blame on the Cabin crew union, use this as an excuse to liquidate the company and start up again the week after under a whole new set of rules!
And believe me, all of you hardcore union nutcases will be happy to agree to those new T and Cs after a month on the dole! I know that, you know that and your management knows that!
So before following the strike orders blindly, I would recommend a very thorough soul search! You will NOT win.
And I did not even mention the dirty games that people will start playing from this moment onwards!
All I can tell is that those three months, pushed and pulled between union and company, where the darkest period in my life. That together with the 11 months in redundancy me and my family had to manage to survive. Now I work in a union free environment
, and thanks god for that!
Good luck to you all, godspeed and may the force be with you...You will need all the help you can get!
Similar situation:
1) Negotiations with other airline on the table
2) Strong unions in an overstaffed and over paid work environment
3) Daily accumulating losses
The unions PUSHED one workforce, in this case, towards a strike during a very critical phase in the negotiations. Most pilots did not want to strike, however they where forced to do so. Cabin crew refused to strike.
Still the pilots managed to debilitate the company for a couple of days. These few days where the final tool management needed to let the company go into liquidation. (02/11/2001)
15000 people lost their jobs directly, a multitude more indirectly. Suicides and social drama followed.
Two weeks later the company restarted. New contracts, new payscales, new benefits, overall 50% lower wagecost for the new SN.The union's power was broken for good, and all SABENA pilots where asked to lower their pants by writing a HANDWRITTEN letter why they wanted to join the new SN. All of us did write, out of 1000 pilots only 20 got a job!
I am afraid this is exactly what will happen at BA. If the strike continues there is no way in the world that BA will recover from it. A 12 day strike in this season will finish-off the company.
And all your management will do is put the blame on the Cabin crew union, use this as an excuse to liquidate the company and start up again the week after under a whole new set of rules!
And believe me, all of you hardcore union nutcases will be happy to agree to those new T and Cs after a month on the dole! I know that, you know that and your management knows that!
So before following the strike orders blindly, I would recommend a very thorough soul search! You will NOT win.
And I did not even mention the dirty games that people will start playing from this moment onwards!
All I can tell is that those three months, pushed and pulled between union and company, where the darkest period in my life. That together with the 11 months in redundancy me and my family had to manage to survive. Now I work in a union free environment
, and thanks god for that!Good luck to you all, godspeed and may the force be with you...You will need all the help you can get!
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Public Anger
I agree with rzw30’s point about public sympathy.
Whoever decided to cancel Christmas for over a million people should have known better. Anyone affected will be stunned and filled with anxiety. Even people who are not directly affected will take a dim view of this action.
I’d be interested to know what the atmosphere is like on board flights at the moment. Can cabin staff look their passengers in the eye and be jolly, or has the relationship become tense?
Whoever decided to cancel Christmas for over a million people should have known better. Anyone affected will be stunned and filled with anxiety. Even people who are not directly affected will take a dim view of this action.
I’d be interested to know what the atmosphere is like on board flights at the moment. Can cabin staff look their passengers in the eye and be jolly, or has the relationship become tense?
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Human Factor/APYu
I'm not an HR expert, so I could be wrong, but I'm not sure you can issue new rounds of redundancies without going through the full process again.
I know why VR is offered, but I suspect the problem remains - that having offered those terms in the very recent past, a precedent has been set. Precedent is important when redundancy is discussed.
I know why VR is offered, but I suspect the problem remains - that having offered those terms in the very recent past, a precedent has been set. Precedent is important when redundancy is discussed.
Join Date: May 2003
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Public anger
Whoever decided to cancel Christmas for over a million people should have known better. Anyone affected will be stunned and filled with anxiety. Even people who are not directly affected will take a dim view of this action.
A friend of mine said she could not understand why all the press about the Cabin Crew was negative...................
Presumably, if she's still on sick pay, she can man the barricades without any financial loss. Or perhaps it will qualify as union business?