British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
I seem to remember that BASSA have already come unstuck with libel arising from the crew forum. I believe that the Daily Mail also ended up paying out too. There is no such thing as "anonymous" on the internet. (Unless you are incredibly clever and are using a MAC address changer while piggybacking someones internet connection having hacked the CF username/password database) (Anybody with that level of knowledge wouldn't be working for BA in IM, let alone IFCE; rather for Microsoft or Google)
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I have my flask ready for those cold picket line days bring the company to its knees they are treating the cabin crew like dirt i can't wait for the flight deck to start moaning on nightstops. We standby Bassa as you just can't trust this little i mean very little man and his foot soliders.
I'm behind Bassa completely but I do dispair when I hear people talking about their preference being to see the company go under than to continue working here but on different terms.
There's no reason why we cannot protect what we enjoy currently without doing lasting damage to the company and its reputation.
Some of us love working for BA. Please don't ruin it for us.
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I was shown the text message by a very pro-BASSA WW purser yesterday. She asked me to explain it to her as she or her friends "didn't understand any of it".
It seems as if many still do not realise what is going on.
It seems as if many still do not realise what is going on.
Eddy,
You state that you want to "protect what you currently enjoy"! Alas, that is the root of the problem!
We all want to do that and it is a fair aspiration, but this is now the 21st century and some of your agreements are so outdated and unrealistic. The reason that WW is so adamant that BA will win, and most definitely not BASSA, is due to some of these unrealistic practices. The absolute disaster of the snow disruption in February was THE LAST STRAW!!
I count a lot of friends in the cc community, and I have flown with some great cc recently, BUT I expect the cc community to contribute to the required savings like the rest of us. BASSA have consistently stated that they do not believe that there is a financial crisis - gleaned I am sure through the bottom of a pint glass and not with any understanding of finances.
There was a deadline for talks, which BASSA chose to completely ignore. I for one hope that BA ensure that they PAY one way or another!
You state that you want to "protect what you currently enjoy"! Alas, that is the root of the problem!
We all want to do that and it is a fair aspiration, but this is now the 21st century and some of your agreements are so outdated and unrealistic. The reason that WW is so adamant that BA will win, and most definitely not BASSA, is due to some of these unrealistic practices. The absolute disaster of the snow disruption in February was THE LAST STRAW!!
I count a lot of friends in the cc community, and I have flown with some great cc recently, BUT I expect the cc community to contribute to the required savings like the rest of us. BASSA have consistently stated that they do not believe that there is a financial crisis - gleaned I am sure through the bottom of a pint glass and not with any understanding of finances.
There was a deadline for talks, which BASSA chose to completely ignore. I for one hope that BA ensure that they PAY one way or another!
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BA delaying for past 9 months.
I take it SPORRAN you do not work for BA as cabin crew & a member of BASSA if you were are or did you would know that its BA that have been using delay tactics & stalling at the talks often not showing with both bassa & Amicus .
Tomorrow is another day & this goes on & on & on.Watch this space time will tell
Tomorrow is another day & this goes on & on & on.Watch this space time will tell
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Won't this be interesting when it inevitably (or so it seems at the moment) comes to court and we actually find out who has been telling the truth!
Who actually turned up to which scheduled meetings?
Who refused to sit in the same room as who?
Has the information which has been passed to employees/members been accurate?
The legal teams will have a field day when all (anonymous) forum traffic and internal missives have been subpoenaed and collated...
I hope for the sake of all who have a vested interest that it is shown no untruths have been told and the livelihoods of thousands have been put at risk.
It could be a very time consuming and expensive business, at a time when both time and expense at commodities in short reserve...for some.
Who actually turned up to which scheduled meetings?
Who refused to sit in the same room as who?
Has the information which has been passed to employees/members been accurate?
The legal teams will have a field day when all (anonymous) forum traffic and internal missives have been subpoenaed and collated...
I hope for the sake of all who have a vested interest that it is shown no untruths have been told and the livelihoods of thousands have been put at risk.
It could be a very time consuming and expensive business, at a time when both time and expense at commodities in short reserve...for some.
Junior trash
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Won't this be interesting when it inevitably (or so it seems at the moment) comes to court and we actually find out who has been telling the truth!
Independent observers certainly didnt see BASSA turn up to anything more than a couple of hours prior to Jun 30th, and they were certainly the party refusing to be in the same room as CC89 last week, so its only the true believers who think that BASSA arent at least as bad as BA in this regard.
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Originally Posted by Sporran
You state that you want to "protect what you currently enjoy"! Alas, that is the root of the problem!
We need to find a temporary solution to the problems we're experiencing just now but last year we had a winning formula - well rewarded staff with high morale as a result and relative tranquility within the ranks. Why change what's working?
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It all depends on how you define temporary. Given this is a global depression we are wallowing our way through and it may well take 5 or more years for things to return to "normal" - if they ever do, these temporary solutions will appear to be permanent.
Either way change is necessary, continuing to pay a set of staff significantly above the average cannot continue in the immediate future. The changes could have been led by BASSA, rather the lack of sensible negotiation has led to imposition with more to come. Not a good result for BA or for BASSA.
Either way change is necessary, continuing to pay a set of staff significantly above the average cannot continue in the immediate future. The changes could have been led by BASSA, rather the lack of sensible negotiation has led to imposition with more to come. Not a good result for BA or for BASSA.
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Sporran, we made record profits last year with me earning what I currently do now and all my colleagues across all departments earning whatever they did over that past year.
We need to find a temporary solution to the problems we're experiencing just now but last year we had a winning formula - well rewarded staff with high morale as a result and relative tranquility within the ranks. Why change what's working?
We need to find a temporary solution to the problems we're experiencing just now but last year we had a winning formula - well rewarded staff with high morale as a result and relative tranquility within the ranks. Why change what's working?
BA need to make above 10% margin pretty much every year, and it simply cant be done with the current cost base.
I dont think any of us have a problem with high rewards if the company gets high value, in terms of efficiency etc. BASSA must accept that high rewards bring a responsibility to perform better than your lower paid colleagues elsewhere. The union seems to take great joy in disrupting the lives of our passengers given half a chance, thats hardly value for BA. I'd suggest that as the T+Cs are so much higher than the competition (including LH, KL etc) that a wise union would be engaging with BA and not playing silly games that just encourage plans like new fleet.
Why change what's working?
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I find it hilarious that after attacking CC89 about their lack of an updated membership database, BASSA then send out a message to say if you've recently left, please let us know so we can make sure our database is up to date! Double Standards anyone?
And yet none of the members on the BASSA forum dare to mention that there is a possibility that there own database is corrupt...
And yet none of the members on the BASSA forum dare to mention that there is a possibility that there own database is corrupt...
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Andy, I'm sorry I forgot to respond to you. Deeceethree certainly has a point. I'm mostly concerned about the union reps not telling the whole truth and not representing their membership in a very good manner. A show of hands to be taken as given to delay electing new reps is one. Another is not asking the members what they are willing to "give up" or reduce.
Hope this clarifies a little bit.
Gg
(General)Ps. The latest now is to encourage people to vote for the Labour party to (hopefully) go ahead with 3rd runway at LHR (!). This is because the latest rumour/speculation is that if the 3rd runway doesn't happen, BA will expand from MAD instead of LHR. Go figure...
Pps. Overstress, did you tell them the text was the wrong information? Any reaction?
Hope this clarifies a little bit.
Gg
(General)Ps. The latest now is to encourage people to vote for the Labour party to (hopefully) go ahead with 3rd runway at LHR (!). This is because the latest rumour/speculation is that if the 3rd runway doesn't happen, BA will expand from MAD instead of LHR. Go figure...
Pps. Overstress, did you tell them the text was the wrong information? Any reaction?
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Sporran, we made record profits last year with me earning what I currently do now and all my colleagues across all departments earning whatever they did over that past year.
We need to find a temporary solution to the problems we're experiencing just now but last year we had a winning formula - well rewarded staff with high morale as a result and relative tranquility within the ranks. Why change what's working?
We need to find a temporary solution to the problems we're experiencing just now but last year we had a winning formula - well rewarded staff with high morale as a result and relative tranquility within the ranks. Why change what's working?
Those were the halcyon days when we made £800million profit, equating to a 10% profit margin - just. And the profits were based on an undisputedly unsustainable economic situation.
In the last 2 years, we have seen 65000 jobs lost from the financial sector just in London and New York. Banks are now operating on a fraction of the staffing levels, and due to their high profile public support, have very little latitude to spend money in First and Club. The public is suffering from zero pay rises, loss of employment and loss of confidence, and as a result our yields have plummeted, absolutely fallen off the edge of a cliff. There is no indication that they are picking up again, only that we are bouncing along at the bottom of the recession.
If Bassa had the financial acumen to actually listen to BA's financial people, and spoke to PWC, BA's independent auditors, they might learn that saying "every flight I've done recently has been really busy" is no substitute for understanding balance sheets and cash flow projections. This is not a temporary blip. this a sea change in fundamentals of our industry. Look at what all our competitors are doing, both the European locos and the longhaul majors.
Bassa seem to have backed themselves into a mindset that BA will very soon making millions again. There are no financial projections whatsoever that recognise this. Ask Bassa for one. Really. Ask them. The only reason we are no longer "fighting to survive"
is because we have secured funding to withstand the winter downturn and to deal with industrial action. That funding was obtained on the basis that our cost base would be reduced to be able to pay that money back. We're not safe because the business is heading back to the bonanza years, it's a short term respite only.
So in short Eddy, it's not working.
I honestly believe that Bassa are both being pressed by its membership to fight for the status quo, and are pressing the rest of the membership for the same, because they have either insufficient financial knowledge or insufficient financial data.
The only way for individuals to come to the correct conclusion in this conflict is to be informed. Bassa members should be asking the union to back up their argument with figures, not insults and emotional rantings.
But does any one have the nerve?
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Also get Bassa to give you their financial forecasts for BA.
You'll probably find they don't have any, as they rely and depend on their members' lack of financial knowledge, hoping they will follow without question.
Yet it is the solution to Bassa members' dilemma as to what to do next.
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Litebulb,
you don't seem to understand the role of the auditor. They are not BA's accountants, they are the legally required independent auditor. That means they have a fundamental legal obligation to inform the outside world that BA's financial situation is as they say it is. They can't be paid by the company to say what they would prefer to make public. They make millions worldwide from their reputation for probity and wouldn't risk that for the sake of a few quid to hoodwink some cabin crew.
Even if you think that's not enough, ask Bassa what they think BA's profit will be in 2,3,4and 5 years if the business's cost base returns to current levels in 2011.
Don't you think that information would be useful?
you don't seem to understand the role of the auditor. They are not BA's accountants, they are the legally required independent auditor. That means they have a fundamental legal obligation to inform the outside world that BA's financial situation is as they say it is. They can't be paid by the company to say what they would prefer to make public. They make millions worldwide from their reputation for probity and wouldn't risk that for the sake of a few quid to hoodwink some cabin crew.
Even if you think that's not enough, ask Bassa what they think BA's profit will be in 2,3,4and 5 years if the business's cost base returns to current levels in 2011.
Don't you think that information would be useful?