British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Crew can legally accrue up to 900 flying hours per year; a work rate that discounters Ryanair and EasyJet regard as normal. BA’s Heathrow staff, however, only work about 600 hours a year.
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I overheard a couple of BASSA brigades at the CRC yesterday and they were talking about the impositions.
"I don't want a payfreeze!" - Exactly what BASSA suggested in their proposal. We should be glad they are not coming after a 2.61% pay cut as well which BASSA also had included in their proposal.
"Single supervisor on EF. It won' work!" - Again, this is what BASSA suggested in their proposal. PSR positions to be replaced with Main Crew on 757 and 767.
I can't be bothered any longer. I wish this would be over.
"I don't want a payfreeze!" - Exactly what BASSA suggested in their proposal. We should be glad they are not coming after a 2.61% pay cut as well which BASSA also had included in their proposal.
"Single supervisor on EF. It won' work!" - Again, this is what BASSA suggested in their proposal. PSR positions to be replaced with Main Crew on 757 and 767.
I can't be bothered any longer. I wish this would be over.
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With respect to our WW crew - the 100% contract crew tend to be rostered to the 900 hour limits, as indeed in the last year where many have had to be rostered repetetive standby duties to avoid conflict with the 900 hour limit.
This caused the WW shortages which resulted in the short term contracts - together with the EU directive (I believe) that required banked leave to be either taken or lost.
However, the average is brought down dramatically by the inefficient SH network, where 450-500 hours is the norm.
There being about 10,000 LH and 3,500 SH crew is where the 600 hours comes from.
What BA are/will achieve by lots more crew on part-time contracts, is the ability to achieve more than 450 hours from a 50% crew member - more like 550 hours. Same goes for the new mixed fleet - just look at LGW - mixed 777 and 737/319 flying gives close to 900 hours flying for all.
Be under no illusion - VR but more especially increased part time and reduced crewing levels (esp on SH) will result in dramatic productivity improvements in BA come next summer. BASSA have missed an opportunity to be involved in the future of BA cabin crew.
This caused the WW shortages which resulted in the short term contracts - together with the EU directive (I believe) that required banked leave to be either taken or lost.
However, the average is brought down dramatically by the inefficient SH network, where 450-500 hours is the norm.
There being about 10,000 LH and 3,500 SH crew is where the 600 hours comes from.
What BA are/will achieve by lots more crew on part-time contracts, is the ability to achieve more than 450 hours from a 50% crew member - more like 550 hours. Same goes for the new mixed fleet - just look at LGW - mixed 777 and 737/319 flying gives close to 900 hours flying for all.
Be under no illusion - VR but more especially increased part time and reduced crewing levels (esp on SH) will result in dramatic productivity improvements in BA come next summer. BASSA have missed an opportunity to be involved in the future of BA cabin crew.
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There seems to be a day of discontent over on CF when I had a look earlier. Random phrases from management and unions posted without explanations and the members getting increasingly frustrated and stressed by no answers. Another trick from Bassa? It gets people riled, that's for sure. It causes nothing but division among the ranks, which may in turn be a good thing, to be honest. I do think that several members over on CF are now starting to believe they've been lied to, although the hard-liners are obviously not letting them have a voice, as usual.
Basically what the phrases are about, is that when imposition happens on the 16th, you either accept it or you're out of a job. Some say Bassa won't let it happen, some say the company can't do that kind of thing, and some people seem geniunely scared for their future. They were promised a reply this morning, but last time I looked (about an hour ago), there had been no reasonable reply as of yet.
Also, people are now convinced that BA have signed on the dotted line to buy BMI from LH, and the BMI crew will be "New Fleet", and domestics and some short haul will be sold to FlyBe. I don't know where this has come from (another crewmour...) but if anyone has any more info on this one, that would be great.
Gg
Basically what the phrases are about, is that when imposition happens on the 16th, you either accept it or you're out of a job. Some say Bassa won't let it happen, some say the company can't do that kind of thing, and some people seem geniunely scared for their future. They were promised a reply this morning, but last time I looked (about an hour ago), there had been no reasonable reply as of yet.
Also, people are now convinced that BA have signed on the dotted line to buy BMI from LH, and the BMI crew will be "New Fleet", and domestics and some short haul will be sold to FlyBe. I don't know where this has come from (another crewmour...) but if anyone has any more info on this one, that would be great.
Gg
Junior trash
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Also, people are now convinced that BA have signed on the dotted line to buy BMI from LH, and the BMI crew will be "New Fleet", and domestics and some short haul will be sold to FlyBe
Why would BA buy Bmi (essentially domestic and short haul) and then sell domestic and short haul
. And if we've really bought Bmi why did Bmi appoint a new CEO this morning?!
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I know, HM, it is quite laughable, really. They do get themselves into a tizz by listening to "a friend of a friend". Considering how little most of them know about BA, nevermind any other airlines, it is a bit funny...
Gg
Gg
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I have my flask ready for those cold picket line days bring the company to its knees they are treating the cabin crew like dirt i can't wait for the flight deck to start moaning on nightstops. We standby Bassa as you just can't trust this little i mean very little man and his foot soliders.
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I have my flask ready for those cold picket line days bring the company to its knees they are treating the cabin crew like dirt i can't wait for the flight deck to start moaning on nightstops. We standby Bassa as you just can't trust this little i mean very little man and his foot soliders.
2 posts only, both of which bear no relevance, carry no fact nor, indeed, proactive arguments for the BASSA stance.
(Apart from the picture of the BASSA reps meeting which I did think quite apt.)
those cold picket line days bring the company to its knees
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I have my flask ready for those cold picket line days bring the company to its knees they are treating the cabin crew like dirt i can't wait for the flight deck to start moaning on nightstops. We standby Bassa as you just can't trust this little i mean very little man and his foot soliders.
Step away from the Pinot Grigio!
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Oh deary deary me.
I've just read this missive from unite: http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/BA_cabi...imposition.pdf LIES. It's as plain and simple as that. Given that most CF participants have probably also read it, then it's hardly any wonder that they are getting themselves into a tizz. A tizz that perfectly suits those in charge of unite/bassa/cc89 I have no doubt. But a tizz which will eventually (and probably quite soon) turn into complete and absolute anger at the very people and organisations who are propagating this rubbish in a misguided attempt to further their own twisted agendas.
It's just possible that we could be about to see the beginning of the beginning of the end for bassa. cc89 might survive, if they can summon up the whits to tear themselves away from big-brother unite and truly do what they set-out to do many years ago. Although their chance to change anything that will happen on 16Nov has now gone forever. Unite irself, will (sadly) power-on regardless of any eventual outcome.
Luckily for me I'm on days off just now, but am dreading spending a day being deafened by a cacophony of misguided angst and worry in the galley. Still, at least that'll give me even more reason to be out and about in the cabin (where, on an Airbus, most galley conversations can quite easily be heard for 6 or 7 rows).
I've already heard from a friend who worked today that the drivel was non-stop from briefing to car-park. Maybe it's time for me to adopt bassa techniques, and simply shout down anyone I disagree with ..... see how they like it.
Glamgirl .... can you give a rough guess as to how many crew actually take part in CF? And how many actually post on it? Just curious to know if it's widely used, or just a thumping tub for the dedicated few.
I've just read this missive from unite: http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/BA_cabi...imposition.pdf LIES. It's as plain and simple as that. Given that most CF participants have probably also read it, then it's hardly any wonder that they are getting themselves into a tizz. A tizz that perfectly suits those in charge of unite/bassa/cc89 I have no doubt. But a tizz which will eventually (and probably quite soon) turn into complete and absolute anger at the very people and organisations who are propagating this rubbish in a misguided attempt to further their own twisted agendas.
It's just possible that we could be about to see the beginning of the beginning of the end for bassa. cc89 might survive, if they can summon up the whits to tear themselves away from big-brother unite and truly do what they set-out to do many years ago. Although their chance to change anything that will happen on 16Nov has now gone forever. Unite irself, will (sadly) power-on regardless of any eventual outcome.
Luckily for me I'm on days off just now, but am dreading spending a day being deafened by a cacophony of misguided angst and worry in the galley. Still, at least that'll give me even more reason to be out and about in the cabin (where, on an Airbus, most galley conversations can quite easily be heard for 6 or 7 rows).
I've already heard from a friend who worked today that the drivel was non-stop from briefing to car-park. Maybe it's time for me to adopt bassa techniques, and simply shout down anyone I disagree with ..... see how they like it.
Glamgirl .... can you give a rough guess as to how many crew actually take part in CF? And how many actually post on it? Just curious to know if it's widely used, or just a thumping tub for the dedicated few.
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Originally Posted by Unite
This imposition is completely unacceptable. It
is a disgraceful attempt to intimidate workers into
accepting poorer contracts. This imposition must be
withdrawn. BA must step back from the brink and
get back round the table to talk.
is a disgraceful attempt to intimidate workers into
accepting poorer contracts. This imposition must be
withdrawn. BA must step back from the brink and
get back round the table to talk.
In three days of talks last week at ACAS, BA
categorically refused to talk about these plans.
They conducted themselves in bad faith then
and are doing so again now. BA must be under
no illusion; Unite will vigorously defend BA's
loyal staff and its customer base and will not
see standards driven into the ground by this
management team.
categorically refused to talk about these plans.
They conducted themselves in bad faith then
and are doing so again now. BA must be under
no illusion; Unite will vigorously defend BA's
loyal staff and its customer base and will not
see standards driven into the ground by this
management team.
BA's continued determination to mimic the no-frills
end of the industry will cause despair for customers
who pay a premium price and expect a premium
service in return. Cabin crew are the heart and soul
of that premium service and are dearly valued by the
customers for the professionalism and dedication, yet
now they are being presented with an impossible
choice - cut the service and do more for less, or lose
your job.
end of the industry will cause despair for customers
who pay a premium price and expect a premium
service in return. Cabin crew are the heart and soul
of that premium service and are dearly valued by the
customers for the professionalism and dedication, yet
now they are being presented with an impossible
choice - cut the service and do more for less, or lose
your job.
Brian Boyd, Unite national officer added:
"BA's ultimatum puts our members' jobs and
livelihoods under serious attack, and further
damages the reputation of our national carrier.
"Unite and its cabin crew members have said all along
that we wanted to negotiate a shared solution to the
short-term financial problems facing BA. Earlier this
year, Unite tabled changes amounting to £140 million
in savings for the business.
"BA's ultimatum puts our members' jobs and
livelihoods under serious attack, and further
damages the reputation of our national carrier.
"Unite and its cabin crew members have said all along
that we wanted to negotiate a shared solution to the
short-term financial problems facing BA. Earlier this
year, Unite tabled changes amounting to £140 million
in savings for the business.
These could have been
banked months ago, putting cash into the business
while retaining the airline's integrity and sustaining
good industrial relations. These were dismissed out of
hand by BA's management and now it is clear why.
banked months ago, putting cash into the business
while retaining the airline's integrity and sustaining
good industrial relations. These were dismissed out of
hand by BA's management and now it is clear why.
Sadly, the company is not interested in compromise,
preferring conflict with its workforce.
preferring conflict with its workforce.
Unite believes the new contractural changes are an
attempt to force staff to pay the price for management
failings with the company wringing more and more
out of fewer and fewer staff who will be paid less.
attempt to force staff to pay the price for management
failings with the company wringing more and more
out of fewer and fewer staff who will be paid less.
Working hours will be extended, crew levels will be
slashed, career opportunities will disappear and new
starters will be brought in on bargain basement wages.
slashed, career opportunities will disappear and new
starters will be brought in on bargain basement wages.
Unite says this will inevitably damage customer service
and hit the brand, possibly leaving it beyond repair.
and hit the brand, possibly leaving it beyond repair.
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TorC,
I'm guesstimating here, but there seem to be around 50-odd who post regularly, although it could be higher than that.
Officially, there are just over 3,300 members. I reckon there are a lot of "lurkers" (like me), and rather a lot that don't actually log on there.
I'd like to think that it isn't the majority of the members who are part of the militant lot, although I'm afraid that too many are.
Time will tell what the reactions will be when people realise they've been lied to. There may even be more people coming over here to have a look, who knows?
Gg
I'm guesstimating here, but there seem to be around 50-odd who post regularly, although it could be higher than that.
Officially, there are just over 3,300 members. I reckon there are a lot of "lurkers" (like me), and rather a lot that don't actually log on there.
I'd like to think that it isn't the majority of the members who are part of the militant lot, although I'm afraid that too many are.
Time will tell what the reactions will be when people realise they've been lied to. There may even be more people coming over here to have a look, who knows?
Gg
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Thanks Gg
I gave-up visiting CF months ago. Have thought about maybe going back to have a peek but for my sanity I think it's best I stay away. (And fortunately, Masterchef is getting most of my attention right now).
3,300 is just a smidgen under a quarter of us, so maybe it's not as powerful a forum as I had imagined.
I just hope enough of the lurkers there have as sensible a head on their shoulders as you.
I gave-up visiting CF months ago. Have thought about maybe going back to have a peek but for my sanity I think it's best I stay away. (And fortunately, Masterchef is getting most of my attention right now).
3,300 is just a smidgen under a quarter of us, so maybe it's not as powerful a forum as I had imagined.
I just hope enough of the lurkers there have as sensible a head on their shoulders as you.
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TorC,
I mainly go on there just to feel sane, to be honest
. As long as you don't get worked up about what they're talking about, you'll be fine. There are quite a few members as well who don't fly, as they've been given special dispensation from the mods. Some are retired as well.
Gg
(I do like Brian, seems like a nice lad)
I mainly go on there just to feel sane, to be honest
. As long as you don't get worked up about what they're talking about, you'll be fine. There are quite a few members as well who don't fly, as they've been given special dispensation from the mods. Some are retired as well. Gg
(I do like Brian, seems like a nice lad)
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Ok, I know this is a bit naughty, but it shows some of what's being posted/believed somewhere else....
"I would expect BA to apply for an injuction at the threat of a strike as a matter of course, so don't be shocked when it happens peeps.
The great thing is .... if he doesn't get it, I believe that's the end of Willie Walsh....and I don't believe he'll get it. Our union is too clever, and Willie Walsh's rubbish reputation goes before him"
"BA can threaten with legal action all they
like but if 10000 crew decide to phone in sick on Christmas eve -what the are BA going to do about it? I've personally had enough with all this Rule playing - its about time the true working tax paying people of this country got together and showed the Fatcats we mean business when it comes to messing around with our lively hoods. Let's get this ballot out to the members. If BA try to stop it then lets just walk out anyway ( mass phone in sick) just to show them we wont be bullied. I'm livid with this company."
"We just must adopt a more French attitude and make it happen."
The bolds are mine. The censored parts are covering swear words.
Considering so many cc complain about commuting etc and keeping in mind the tax breaks we get, I think it's rather cheeky to claim themselves to be true working tax paying people of this country. So many cc live in Europe somewhere, and don't pay tax in the UK (I don't know if they even pay tax in their country of residence, but I suspect they do).
Gg
"I would expect BA to apply for an injuction at the threat of a strike as a matter of course, so don't be shocked when it happens peeps.
The great thing is .... if he doesn't get it, I believe that's the end of Willie Walsh....and I don't believe he'll get it. Our union is too clever, and Willie Walsh's rubbish reputation goes before him"
"BA can threaten with legal action all they
like but if 10000 crew decide to phone in sick on Christmas eve -what the are BA going to do about it? I've personally had enough with all this Rule playing - its about time the true working tax paying people of this country got together and showed the Fatcats we mean business when it comes to messing around with our lively hoods. Let's get this ballot out to the members. If BA try to stop it then lets just walk out anyway ( mass phone in sick) just to show them we wont be bullied. I'm livid with this company.""We just must adopt a more French attitude and make it happen."
The bolds are mine. The censored parts are covering swear words.
Considering so many cc complain about commuting etc and keeping in mind the tax breaks we get, I think it's rather cheeky to claim themselves to be true working tax paying people of this country. So many cc live in Europe somewhere, and don't pay tax in the UK (I don't know if they even pay tax in their country of residence, but I suspect they do).
Gg
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At the moment in France they do not pay any French tax (so I am told) but that may very well change very soon.
I do not know about whether or not they pay tax in other EU countries.
There are rather a lot of them who commute from this part of France.
I live in France myself but have never commuted when I was c/c (now retired)
I do not know about whether or not they pay tax in other EU countries.
There are rather a lot of them who commute from this part of France.
I live in France myself but have never commuted when I was c/c (now retired)
FWIW, at the risk of thread drift but in the interests of accuracy, any British crew living in France pay full UK National Insurance, some UK Income tax, and they are also liable to French local taxation....
Now, talking about accuracy, that alledgedly BA sponsored alledgedly Black Tie "do" the retiring pilots went to.....
Now, talking about accuracy, that alledgedly BA sponsored alledgedly Black Tie "do" the retiring pilots went to.....
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How about this little gem?
BASSA as a union does not actually exist, it is a branch of Unite (as is CC89).
With a membership of 15,000 it accounts to .75% of the total membership.
The majority of member's subs go to Unite with only a proportion going to the branch.
As far as Unite is concerned the T&G and Amicus constituants are not treated separately, it is one union.
A read of the rules is also interesting (link below).
Any rules of constituent unions are but bylaws with Unite rules taking precedent.
Branches can only censure members, they have no discliplinary powers.
As I read it the level of Unite rule breaking by Bassa reps is huge!
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/Uni...20May%2009.pdf
About us
The PDF link is to the rules of Unite, the other link is the Unite home page.
Gg
Ps. Without sounding arrogant, please don't confuse the word "censure" with "censor". I know most of you won't, but you know who I mean...
BASSA as a union does not actually exist, it is a branch of Unite (as is CC89).
With a membership of 15,000 it accounts to .75% of the total membership.
The majority of member's subs go to Unite with only a proportion going to the branch.
As far as Unite is concerned the T&G and Amicus constituants are not treated separately, it is one union.
A read of the rules is also interesting (link below).
Any rules of constituent unions are but bylaws with Unite rules taking precedent.
Branches can only censure members, they have no discliplinary powers.
As I read it the level of Unite rule breaking by Bassa reps is huge!
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/Uni...20May%2009.pdf
About us
The PDF link is to the rules of Unite, the other link is the Unite home page.
Gg
Ps. Without sounding arrogant, please don't confuse the word "censure" with "censor". I know most of you won't, but you know who I mean...
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ts about time the true working tax paying people of this country got together and showed the Fatcats we mean business when it comes to messing around with our lively hoods
The results of the 2008 ASHE show that median weekly pay for full-time employees in the UK grew by 4.6 per cent in the year to April 2008 to reach £479. Median earnings of full-time male employees was £521 per week in April 2008; for women the median was £412.
INCLUDING ALL ALLOWANCES, BEFORE TAXATION