British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely the whole point of this never ending rigmarole is to put BA in the position to impose a contract which allows the new crewing levels and rostering systems. Perhaps the company could get back to running the operation without having to consult the BASSA oracle at every step.
If the WW CSD's refuse to sign then they have resigned. If they refuse to fly then they are in breach. Tough.
Perhaps BASSA had better take a closer look at the SOSR clause and brief their members accordingly.
edit:
I would be fairly sure that if the senior CC member refused to fly then another could be found pretty quickly, if not then I would just upgrade to next along and work one down. 1 per door pair and 1 per 50 pax minimum. If that still doesn't work then we wait it out politely explaining the situation to the passengers until the minimum legal crewing levels can be achieved then we fly out or back and let the CC managers slug it out.
If the WW CSD's refuse to sign then they have resigned. If they refuse to fly then they are in breach. Tough.
Perhaps BASSA had better take a closer look at the SOSR clause and brief their members accordingly.
edit:
I would be fairly sure that if the senior CC member refused to fly then another could be found pretty quickly, if not then I would just upgrade to next along and work one down. 1 per door pair and 1 per 50 pax minimum. If that still doesn't work then we wait it out politely explaining the situation to the passengers until the minimum legal crewing levels can be achieved then we fly out or back and let the CC managers slug it out.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't actually see the point with today's meeting at Kempton Park.
BASSA was not saying anything new: BA is arrogant, BA have been talking to CC89 (BASSA also said there were more members present at the meeting than the numbers of members in CC89), BA would not enter face to face talking with BASSA, BA wants £140 million to be saved which CC89 has agreed to, BASSA says that any changes made should be the same for every department.
ST is proud of BASSA and its representatives. Each and every members must show determination and solidarity. Lala Lady says that the word will get out to every member through communciation.
What exactly was new?
BASSA was not saying anything new: BA is arrogant, BA have been talking to CC89 (BASSA also said there were more members present at the meeting than the numbers of members in CC89), BA would not enter face to face talking with BASSA, BA wants £140 million to be saved which CC89 has agreed to, BASSA says that any changes made should be the same for every department.
ST is proud of BASSA and its representatives. Each and every members must show determination and solidarity. Lala Lady says that the word will get out to every member through communciation.
What exactly was new?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Report Back From Today's Branch Meeting!
Heres the latest Bassa newsletter -
BASSA - Latest News REPORT BACK FROM TODAY’S BRANCH Oct 5th, 2009 by admin
At today’s well-attended branch meeting Steve Turner (joint National Officer for CAT) and the BASSA committee reported back on last week’s meeting with BA held at Acas offices in Euston, London. The membership heard how over the 3 days BA did not want to engage in face to face dialogue and how, despite BASSA asking, they did not seem inclined to put any fresh proposals on the table. The only hard fact that emerged was BA announced (through Acas) they intend to save £140million from the crew budget.
BASSA informed BA (again via Acas) that the improving financial situation meant that all previous proposals were now off the table and a blank sheet of paper between us would be a good starting place for fresh negotiations. Sadly BA could not or would not add anything to this blank piece of paper.
Also the membership were told that the Amicus (CC89) side of UNITE, led by Brian Boyd (Steve Turner’s counterpart representing AMICUS interest) has agreed in principle to finding the £140m... much to our dismay. The committee then reported back how BA were now back to their old tricks of playing one union off against another and how the political situation within the Amicus section of UNITE could seriously undermine any potential BASSA ballot on industrial action. The membership were very angry, especially as CC89 now have so few members within BA (est 500-700) and that the “tail should not be wagging the dog”.
With all this in mind three proposals were made from the floor and all accepted by 100% of those present.
1.Because of concerns over Brian Boyd using UNITE’s money to publish letters criticising our own union BASSA, alongside the fact that he has agreed in writing to accept the target of saving £140m, we call upon Tony Woodley to now remove him from the talks and that this issue is also dealt with by the NEC (a governing committee within UNITE).
2.It is unacceptable to again use our money to fund representatives who are undermining the interests and motions passed by this branch. Specifically the use of a separate consultative ballot.
3.The T&G UNITE section have total control of any ballot of industrial action within BA and if this does not happen the AMICUS section is specifically excluded from any future branch of BASSA 1/2000 for industrial action.
After a unanimous show of hands it was reported back how one of the AMICUS reps taking part in the talks was taking VR in 3 weeks and how unethical it was for him to be part of a negotiating team involved in the futures of remaining crew. It was also relayed back that this same rep had asked BA to initiate a bullying and harassment investigation against many of the committee for requesting that he not participate in the talks and how BA had now indeed opened a formal procedure against certain named BASSA representatives.
The committee apologised to the floor for “the political nature” of the report back but stressed it was vital that the membership knew just what was going on backstage and, despite BASSA on many occasions holding out the hands of friendship to CC89 reps, how BA and AMICUS leadership seem determined to exploit the divides of the last 20 years.
One member then said that in her opinion BASSA should now give BA absolutely nothing by way of savings and we should all prepare for inevitable industrial action. Needless to say the speaker got the biggest cheer of the meeting and a standing ovation.
At today’s well-attended branch meeting Steve Turner (joint National Officer for CAT) and the BASSA committee reported back on last week’s meeting with BA held at Acas offices in Euston, London. The membership heard how over the 3 days BA did not want to engage in face to face dialogue and how, despite BASSA asking, they did not seem inclined to put any fresh proposals on the table. The only hard fact that emerged was BA announced (through Acas) they intend to save £140million from the crew budget.
BASSA informed BA (again via Acas) that the improving financial situation meant that all previous proposals were now off the table and a blank sheet of paper between us would be a good starting place for fresh negotiations. Sadly BA could not or would not add anything to this blank piece of paper.
Also the membership were told that the Amicus (CC89) side of UNITE, led by Brian Boyd (Steve Turner’s counterpart representing AMICUS interest) has agreed in principle to finding the £140m... much to our dismay. The committee then reported back how BA were now back to their old tricks of playing one union off against another and how the political situation within the Amicus section of UNITE could seriously undermine any potential BASSA ballot on industrial action. The membership were very angry, especially as CC89 now have so few members within BA (est 500-700) and that the “tail should not be wagging the dog”.
With all this in mind three proposals were made from the floor and all accepted by 100% of those present.
1.Because of concerns over Brian Boyd using UNITE’s money to publish letters criticising our own union BASSA, alongside the fact that he has agreed in writing to accept the target of saving £140m, we call upon Tony Woodley to now remove him from the talks and that this issue is also dealt with by the NEC (a governing committee within UNITE).
2.It is unacceptable to again use our money to fund representatives who are undermining the interests and motions passed by this branch. Specifically the use of a separate consultative ballot.
3.The T&G UNITE section have total control of any ballot of industrial action within BA and if this does not happen the AMICUS section is specifically excluded from any future branch of BASSA 1/2000 for industrial action.
After a unanimous show of hands it was reported back how one of the AMICUS reps taking part in the talks was taking VR in 3 weeks and how unethical it was for him to be part of a negotiating team involved in the futures of remaining crew. It was also relayed back that this same rep had asked BA to initiate a bullying and harassment investigation against many of the committee for requesting that he not participate in the talks and how BA had now indeed opened a formal procedure against certain named BASSA representatives.
The committee apologised to the floor for “the political nature” of the report back but stressed it was vital that the membership knew just what was going on backstage and, despite BASSA on many occasions holding out the hands of friendship to CC89 reps, how BA and AMICUS leadership seem determined to exploit the divides of the last 20 years.
One member then said that in her opinion BASSA should now give BA absolutely nothing by way of savings and we should all prepare for inevitable industrial action. Needless to say the speaker got the biggest cheer of the meeting and a standing ovation.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One member then said that in her opinion BASSA should now give BA absolutely nothing by way of savings and we should all prepare for inevitable industrial action. Needless to say the speaker got the biggest cheer of the meeting and a standing ovation.
'If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.'
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So it starts again!
Lets start with this little gem. Surely, even in Lala Land, this should have been patently obvious. Amicus had already expressed its concern over the stance that BASSA had taken throughout the negotiations and had communicated it to its membership. Perhaps, in a fit of madness, Brian Boyd communicated with his membership and asked (!) them what they wanted to take forward. The militant hard line as advocated by BASSA or an acceptance of the current economic conditions and those projected to come and accepted that change was indeed required.
It is good to see that BASSA is being briefed by stout economic and business advisers to come out with this pearl. As the various political parties start to address the generally taboo subject of public sector cuts, the private sector is rationalising and resizing in a desperate attempt to regain growth and stabalise profit margins, pensions are bled dry and savings are acrruing no interest. The only way out of the debt is increased taxes, cuts in the public sector and increasing interest rates which will make debt far more difficult to service and BASSA thinks everything is rosy!
BA made an average profit from the gluttony years due to excessive costs cutting the margin. With the revenue stream cut, cheaper airfares, higher taxes and increasing fuel costs BA must continue to keep in house costs low if it is to see a return to profitability. At this time the company is still bleeding cash from every pore and likely to do so for many many quarters to come.
Add to that the question of why should fresh negotiations take place anyway? Its a bit like the mortgage company telling you for months and months that you are in arrears and then asking to start negotiating as the eviction team knocks on the door with the final notice. Way too late.
Perhaps BASSA should take a good long look at the Amicus lead and instead of harangueing them as traitors perhaps view them as leaders who are willing to stand up for their members not the BASSA hive mind.
Good luck
Also the membership were told that the Amicus (CC89) side of UNITE, led by Brian Boyd (Steve Turner’s counterpart representing AMICUS interest) has agreed in principle to finding the £140m... much to our dismay.
BASSA informed BA (again via Acas) that the improving financial situation meant that all previous proposals were now off the table and a blank sheet of paper between us would be a good starting place for fresh negotiations. Sadly BA could not or would not add anything to this blank piece of paper.
BA made an average profit from the gluttony years due to excessive costs cutting the margin. With the revenue stream cut, cheaper airfares, higher taxes and increasing fuel costs BA must continue to keep in house costs low if it is to see a return to profitability. At this time the company is still bleeding cash from every pore and likely to do so for many many quarters to come.
Add to that the question of why should fresh negotiations take place anyway? Its a bit like the mortgage company telling you for months and months that you are in arrears and then asking to start negotiating as the eviction team knocks on the door with the final notice. Way too late.
Perhaps BASSA should take a good long look at the Amicus lead and instead of harangueing them as traitors perhaps view them as leaders who are willing to stand up for their members not the BASSA hive mind.
Good luck
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most 'telling' bit part of the BASSA comms posted above is this one:
The arrogance and high-handed nature of the BASSA leadership is encapsulated in this one paragraph. The deliberate misinterpretation of the situation is breathtaking 
Have BASSA been ditched by UNITE now? Perhaps UNITE are just waiting for BASSA to be destroyed and then move in to rescue what's left after BA impose the new contracts?
PS: there is a rumour going round a crew forum that BA paid for a huge black tie ball for the 78 pilots who just took VR. The reality is (I know as I was there) that one of the 78 organised a modest buffet/beer evening at a hotel near LHR, paid for by the retirees. There was no BA management in sight.
BASSA informed BA (again via Acas) that the improving financial situation meant that all previous proposals were now off the table and a blank sheet of paper between us would be a good starting place for fresh negotiations. Sadly BA could not or would not add anything to this blank piece of paper.
Have BASSA been ditched by UNITE now? Perhaps UNITE are just waiting for BASSA to be destroyed and then move in to rescue what's left after BA impose the new contracts?
PS: there is a rumour going round a crew forum that BA paid for a huge black tie ball for the 78 pilots who just took VR. The reality is (I know as I was there) that one of the 78 organised a modest buffet/beer evening at a hotel near LHR, paid for by the retirees. There was no BA management in sight.
Last edited by overstress; 6th Oct 2009 at 10:43.
Sadly BA could not or would not add anything to this blank piece of paper.
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is it true that BASSA are delaying elections of new reps until after any 'industrial action'? Apparently this was asked at the Kempton Park meeting and was passed on a show of hands.
overstress,
That is correct! Those at the at the Kempton 'gathering' (a minority in BASSA) decided that they would delay the elections. This, apparently gleaned from the crew forum:
That is correct! Those at the at the Kempton 'gathering' (a minority in BASSA) decided that they would delay the elections. This, apparently gleaned from the crew forum:
Bassa nominations will be opening on Bassa website tonight.
If BA impose would you allow us to delay the elections? Show of hands:
All agree
If BA impose would you allow us to delay the elections? Show of hands:
All agree
Here it is:
Dear Colleague
As you know we have been in discussions with Unite on how we will deliver IFCE’s £140m contribution to the savings our company needs to make.
Throughout all of our consultations and negotiations, many of you have told me you understand the need to remove cost and, like me, you want this to be achieved through voluntary means wherever possible. I want to minimise the impact on you, our current crew. And we all share a passion for continuing to provide excellent service to our customers.
Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to reach an agreement with Unite on how we do this and after nine months of talks, the time has come for us to move forward.
While we have consulted with the union at length on this and I had hoped they would support us, the changes we are now introducing will not alter contractual terms and conditions for individual cabin crew.
Achieving savings voluntarily
Everyone who has applied for voluntary redundancy will be able to leave between 30 November and 15 December 2009.
In addition many of you have requested permanent part time contracts and I am pleased to let you know that we will now be able to accept more of these requests. We will begin contacting people registered on the part time lists shortly.
We will also begin actioning transfer requests for Heathrow based crew only, beginning with Eurofleet CSDs who want to move to Worldwide and Worldwide Pursers who wish to move to Eurofleet.
How we will make our savings, while minimising the impact on you, our current crew
We can make these savings and minimise the impact on you, by changing our crew complements. From 16 November 2009 we will make the following changes while still ensuring that our crewing levels can deliver our premium customer service.
Worldwide – effective from 16 November
* One purser position will be removed from all Heathrow Worldwide flights (747,777,767). At the same time, all Worldwide CSDs will join the customer
service routines allowing us to keep the same number of crew who are directly serving our customers onboard
* Removal of the additional main crew member on Heathrow long range routes and additional crew member routes
Eurofleet - effective from 1 December:
* The crew complements on Eurofleet flights will be varied to make them consistent with those currently operated at Gatwick
* The use of a single supervisor on all Eurofleet flights, either a CSD or a purser, balancing the work between these grades
Gatwick – effective from 1 December:
* One purser position will be replaced with a main crew member on 777 3-class aircraft at Gatwick, consistent with Heathrow.
Pay
Pay talks have not yet concluded, but as I’ve said before, we are planning a two-year freeze on base pay for all crew, until March 2011, in line with other areas of the business. We are no longer planning on freezing increments and, most importantly, as promised there are no plans for a pay cut.
Savings from future crew
The proposal to mix future crew with current crew would have required significant changes for you.
I’ve listened to your feedback and I will now look to make savings from future crew at Heathrow, who will join a separate new fleet. These crew will be rostered and will fly separately from you on new terms and conditions. We do not envisage any new crew joining BA until the business begins to grow again.
What are we not doing, after listening to your feedback
This simplified approach, including a separate new fleet, means I will not be introducing any of the following changes previously proposed for current crew. There will be:
* no reduced nights downroute at worldwide destinations,
* no change to days off at base for Eurofleet,
* no transferral of the B767 fleet to Eurofleet,
* no change to early day report for worldwide
* no change to the finishing times for Eurofleet
* no company changes to your variable pay and allowances
* no pay cut
* no increment freeze
New opportunities for you
Taking this voluntary approach to people reductions will create the following new opportunities for personal development and work life balance:
* Worldwide Purser promotion to CSD on current terms and conditions
* Opening up a new list for 33% permanent part time contracts – available to all grades of Heathrow crew
Next steps
I hope that as you read through this letter you will see that these necessary changes hold firm to my principle of minimising the impacts on you as current crew. I hope you will also see that while we have not been able to reach a final agreement with your trade union, we have listened to the points they made during our consultation meetings. Having listened to them, and to your replies to our crew questionnaire, we have moved away from our original proposals to a plan that meets many of the points made in the consultation.
Over the next few days I will write to you individually with more information. My management team and I will continue to be available to listen to your feedback and answer any questions.
There is one item that requires further discussion with the union, namely a revised arrangement for disruption, which puts our customers first. Given the urgency of the business situation we will continue to be available at any time and on any day in order to continue our discussions. The next planned meeting is on 14 October.
I look forward to us being able to move forward with this new, simplified and voluntary approach to savings that also allow many of you to take voluntary redundancy or part time contracts. Thank you for your continued professionalism and service to our customers.
Regards
Bill Francis
Head of IFCE
As you know we have been in discussions with Unite on how we will deliver IFCE’s £140m contribution to the savings our company needs to make.
Throughout all of our consultations and negotiations, many of you have told me you understand the need to remove cost and, like me, you want this to be achieved through voluntary means wherever possible. I want to minimise the impact on you, our current crew. And we all share a passion for continuing to provide excellent service to our customers.
Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to reach an agreement with Unite on how we do this and after nine months of talks, the time has come for us to move forward.
While we have consulted with the union at length on this and I had hoped they would support us, the changes we are now introducing will not alter contractual terms and conditions for individual cabin crew.
Achieving savings voluntarily
Everyone who has applied for voluntary redundancy will be able to leave between 30 November and 15 December 2009.
In addition many of you have requested permanent part time contracts and I am pleased to let you know that we will now be able to accept more of these requests. We will begin contacting people registered on the part time lists shortly.
We will also begin actioning transfer requests for Heathrow based crew only, beginning with Eurofleet CSDs who want to move to Worldwide and Worldwide Pursers who wish to move to Eurofleet.
How we will make our savings, while minimising the impact on you, our current crew
We can make these savings and minimise the impact on you, by changing our crew complements. From 16 November 2009 we will make the following changes while still ensuring that our crewing levels can deliver our premium customer service.
Worldwide – effective from 16 November
* One purser position will be removed from all Heathrow Worldwide flights (747,777,767). At the same time, all Worldwide CSDs will join the customer
service routines allowing us to keep the same number of crew who are directly serving our customers onboard
* Removal of the additional main crew member on Heathrow long range routes and additional crew member routes
Eurofleet - effective from 1 December:
* The crew complements on Eurofleet flights will be varied to make them consistent with those currently operated at Gatwick
* The use of a single supervisor on all Eurofleet flights, either a CSD or a purser, balancing the work between these grades
Gatwick – effective from 1 December:
* One purser position will be replaced with a main crew member on 777 3-class aircraft at Gatwick, consistent with Heathrow.
Pay
Pay talks have not yet concluded, but as I’ve said before, we are planning a two-year freeze on base pay for all crew, until March 2011, in line with other areas of the business. We are no longer planning on freezing increments and, most importantly, as promised there are no plans for a pay cut.
Savings from future crew
The proposal to mix future crew with current crew would have required significant changes for you.
I’ve listened to your feedback and I will now look to make savings from future crew at Heathrow, who will join a separate new fleet. These crew will be rostered and will fly separately from you on new terms and conditions. We do not envisage any new crew joining BA until the business begins to grow again.
What are we not doing, after listening to your feedback
This simplified approach, including a separate new fleet, means I will not be introducing any of the following changes previously proposed for current crew. There will be:
* no reduced nights downroute at worldwide destinations,
* no change to days off at base for Eurofleet,
* no transferral of the B767 fleet to Eurofleet,
* no change to early day report for worldwide
* no change to the finishing times for Eurofleet
* no company changes to your variable pay and allowances
* no pay cut
* no increment freeze
New opportunities for you
Taking this voluntary approach to people reductions will create the following new opportunities for personal development and work life balance:
* Worldwide Purser promotion to CSD on current terms and conditions
* Opening up a new list for 33% permanent part time contracts – available to all grades of Heathrow crew
Next steps
I hope that as you read through this letter you will see that these necessary changes hold firm to my principle of minimising the impacts on you as current crew. I hope you will also see that while we have not been able to reach a final agreement with your trade union, we have listened to the points they made during our consultation meetings. Having listened to them, and to your replies to our crew questionnaire, we have moved away from our original proposals to a plan that meets many of the points made in the consultation.
Over the next few days I will write to you individually with more information. My management team and I will continue to be available to listen to your feedback and answer any questions.
There is one item that requires further discussion with the union, namely a revised arrangement for disruption, which puts our customers first. Given the urgency of the business situation we will continue to be available at any time and on any day in order to continue our discussions. The next planned meeting is on 14 October.
I look forward to us being able to move forward with this new, simplified and voluntary approach to savings that also allow many of you to take voluntary redundancy or part time contracts. Thank you for your continued professionalism and service to our customers.
Regards
Bill Francis
Head of IFCE
..... no chance of IA after that proposal
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What! Have crewing levels the same as our BASSA busom buddies at Gatwick! At fortress Heathrow! AND MAKE THE LH CSD WORK!
Ballot, BASSA 100%, strike for ........ for ........ for what exactly?
Oh and by the way, all the new crew will be on totally different contracts so don't expect their support when BASSA comes crawling for IA in the future.
Bugger.
Ballot, BASSA 100%, strike for ........ for ........ for what exactly?
Oh and by the way, all the new crew will be on totally different contracts so don't expect their support when BASSA comes crawling for IA in the future.
Bugger.
Junior trash
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, over on CF it seems that they still want a strike ballot issuing for this.