British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Oct 2008
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The best of luck from Australia BA crew. Don't let Walsh and his cronies take away what you have achieved to line his own pockets.
Just read this on the times online:
BA risks letting a crisis slip through its fingers | David Wighton: Business Editor’s Commentary - Times Online
Just read this on the times online:
BA risks letting a crisis slip through its fingers | David Wighton: Business Editor’s Commentary - Times Online
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Please do tell me what the benefits are of being in the NSP. I still haven't found any..
We've been promised, by Bassa, time and time again that "we'll definitely support LGW this time". However, it's been proven each time that it's all mouth and no trousers. Ignore LGW until the brown stuff hits the fan, and then scream for support from us.
I don't actually feel sorry for myself. I have a choice as to where I'm based. I turned LHR down many years ago, as I like LGW (believe it or not). I don't take things lying down, however the problem is that everyone presumes all LGW wants to transfer, so therefore no-one can be bothered with our T&Cs.
I've said for a long time, that due to Single Fleet working at LGW, it will at some point in the future come to LHR as well.
Regardless, this thread is about negotiations. All I'm trying to do here is figure out how to cut costs without cutting pay. Things have to change, there is no doubt about that. However, too many militants aren't willing to budge and inch and are screaming out for ballots (as posted constantly on CF).
My questions for you are: What are you willing to change in regards to your contract? The answer "nothing" does not apply. And: Do you honestly think at this point in time that there is any legal reason for balloting for strike?
Gg
PS. In regards to the lady in Hong Kong. She had the law behind her. Simple as that.
PPS. In regards to the LCY issue. What choice did we have? There were no comms from the unions, even though we were promised info by a set date. All we got was silence. Do you really think that peeps on low(ish) wages are going to turn down an opportunity to earn more? It's not about wearing the hat, by the way...
We've been promised, by Bassa, time and time again that "we'll definitely support LGW this time". However, it's been proven each time that it's all mouth and no trousers. Ignore LGW until the brown stuff hits the fan, and then scream for support from us.
I don't actually feel sorry for myself. I have a choice as to where I'm based. I turned LHR down many years ago, as I like LGW (believe it or not). I don't take things lying down, however the problem is that everyone presumes all LGW wants to transfer, so therefore no-one can be bothered with our T&Cs.
I've said for a long time, that due to Single Fleet working at LGW, it will at some point in the future come to LHR as well.
Regardless, this thread is about negotiations. All I'm trying to do here is figure out how to cut costs without cutting pay. Things have to change, there is no doubt about that. However, too many militants aren't willing to budge and inch and are screaming out for ballots (as posted constantly on CF).
My questions for you are: What are you willing to change in regards to your contract? The answer "nothing" does not apply. And: Do you honestly think at this point in time that there is any legal reason for balloting for strike?
Gg
PS. In regards to the lady in Hong Kong. She had the law behind her. Simple as that.
PPS. In regards to the LCY issue. What choice did we have? There were no comms from the unions, even though we were promised info by a set date. All we got was silence. Do you really think that peeps on low(ish) wages are going to turn down an opportunity to earn more? It's not about wearing the hat, by the way...
Junior trash
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Fact of the matter is LGW will never have the same conditions as LHR
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It seems the only vitriol about specific personnel is coming from the same few posters.
Reading through this thread the vast majority of posts are concerned with the poor handling, poor communication and dire negotiating of a union. As a union is only as good as its elected representatives then these are the people, as a union, who must take the blame.
Nowhere have any individuals been singled out. Nowhere does any one poster state 'hatred' (an awful word used in this context) for CC. It is all assumed that, by reasoned debate and the possession of an alternate point of view that differs from the BASSA perception, the poster must, ergo, hate Cabin Crew and the ground they walk on.
Totally incorrect.
Most posters who are aghast at the actions of BASSA are, probably equally aghast at the handling of it by the BA management. They are patently aware however of the need for change and thus somewhat incredulous at the lack of prudent support that BASSA are giving their members. They wish that BASSA supports their members correctly and give their members a common voice by using sensible, well balanced and well communicated negotiations. Something that, looking at the last few BASSA communications, they are singularly failing to do.
Unions cannot continue to crow successes from 17 years ago. Neither can they use individual minor successes in respect to laws which would have been held up in tribunal without 'unionistic' support as propaganda. Supporting the entire membership is the remit for BASSA, something they seem to be failing due to their unwillingness to listen to the quiet majority. The real world moves on at a pace, if BASSA can't or won't keep up then it is time for it to end as a union.
Reading through this thread the vast majority of posts are concerned with the poor handling, poor communication and dire negotiating of a union. As a union is only as good as its elected representatives then these are the people, as a union, who must take the blame.
Nowhere have any individuals been singled out. Nowhere does any one poster state 'hatred' (an awful word used in this context) for CC. It is all assumed that, by reasoned debate and the possession of an alternate point of view that differs from the BASSA perception, the poster must, ergo, hate Cabin Crew and the ground they walk on.
Totally incorrect.
Most posters who are aghast at the actions of BASSA are, probably equally aghast at the handling of it by the BA management. They are patently aware however of the need for change and thus somewhat incredulous at the lack of prudent support that BASSA are giving their members. They wish that BASSA supports their members correctly and give their members a common voice by using sensible, well balanced and well communicated negotiations. Something that, looking at the last few BASSA communications, they are singularly failing to do.
Unions cannot continue to crow successes from 17 years ago. Neither can they use individual minor successes in respect to laws which would have been held up in tribunal without 'unionistic' support as propaganda. Supporting the entire membership is the remit for BASSA, something they seem to be failing due to their unwillingness to listen to the quiet majority. The real world moves on at a pace, if BASSA can't or won't keep up then it is time for it to end as a union.
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Read this article:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6837057.ece
It looks like BASSA has lied to the newspaper saying that BA wants a two year pay freeze. Who suggested it in the first place?
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6837057.ece
It looks like BASSA has lied to the newspaper saying that BA wants a two year pay freeze. Who suggested it in the first place?
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Trying to think constructively, does anyone have any suggestions on how the relationship between BA and Bassa can be improved - both in the short term and longer term to firstly get through this mess but also to have a working relationship in the future?
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I'd like to see the whole Union/Employer relationship evolve into something more akin to a Works Council, where both sides have a clearly understood agreement that the business CAN be run for the good of all on a co-operative basis, rather than on a confrontational one.
I'd go with GlamGirls idea of a new, fresh Union as I very much doubt that the currently incumbent officers could muster the willingness to relinquish any of their power.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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It's probably too late to say this but what BASSA needs/has needed is a leadership that can see past the end of its own nose and has the political nous to judge what battles are worth fighting.
BASSA has created a rod for its own back. If it had let BA get on with what it is here to do - get passengers to where they need to be - and had not been so obstructive about service changes (hot towels in WT+ FFS!) crew would not be facing such drastic changes to working practices.
When BASSA chooses which battles to fight, it should do so in an informed, intelligent and credible mannger - not by launching personal attacks on individuals in BA management, making ludicrous claims that the recession is "rapidly disappearing", refusing to turn up to meetings, proposing cost savings that are shot through with holes and so and so on.
BASSA has created a rod for its own back. If it had let BA get on with what it is here to do - get passengers to where they need to be - and had not been so obstructive about service changes (hot towels in WT+ FFS!) crew would not be facing such drastic changes to working practices.
When BASSA chooses which battles to fight, it should do so in an informed, intelligent and credible mannger - not by launching personal attacks on individuals in BA management, making ludicrous claims that the recession is "rapidly disappearing", refusing to turn up to meetings, proposing cost savings that are shot through with holes and so and so on.
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On the subject of Hot Towels, I know this is a bit off topic and I am only a BA customer but what has happened to the hot towels in club europe?
I usually make at least one flight a week and have not seen a hot towel for about 6 weeks now.
I usually make at least one flight a week and have not seen a hot towel for about 6 weeks now.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I agree with others - the union has had it's day now, and many of us are quite literally at the end of our tether with the childish, puerile publications written by the self-named LaLa Lady. That is the only thing that I think I can agree on with them.
It is astounding to see that on other forums there is outrage about the new Club World Service. I am too embarrassed to even confess what the Union reps are advocating. Customer Service??
Rather than meddling in things that are categorically not their domain, the Union should be fighting for our jobs, our salaries and our futures. Instead they have OFFERED a 2 year pay freeze and a 2.6% paycut. For anyone who does not understand the implications of this - it could take you up to FIVE YEARS to earn what you currently earn now if this were to go ahead. So why have we been paying membership fees all this time to PROTECT our salaries??
Thank God that IFCE have not taken up the offer (so far).
I have been holding onto my union membership simply to be able to vote NO if and when the time comes. I now believe that there is no point. I don't need a vote. I will vote with my feet and come to work during a strike.
I intend to resign from this appalling outfit that calls itself UNITE and I would urge others who feel the same to do so.
The loss of membership funds is the only thing that will make them listen. Let's do it. Resign. En Masse.
It is astounding to see that on other forums there is outrage about the new Club World Service. I am too embarrassed to even confess what the Union reps are advocating. Customer Service??
Rather than meddling in things that are categorically not their domain, the Union should be fighting for our jobs, our salaries and our futures. Instead they have OFFERED a 2 year pay freeze and a 2.6% paycut. For anyone who does not understand the implications of this - it could take you up to FIVE YEARS to earn what you currently earn now if this were to go ahead. So why have we been paying membership fees all this time to PROTECT our salaries??
Thank God that IFCE have not taken up the offer (so far).
I have been holding onto my union membership simply to be able to vote NO if and when the time comes. I now believe that there is no point. I don't need a vote. I will vote with my feet and come to work during a strike.
I intend to resign from this appalling outfit that calls itself UNITE and I would urge others who feel the same to do so.
The loss of membership funds is the only thing that will make them listen. Let's do it. Resign. En Masse.
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On the subject of Hot Towels, I know this is a bit off topic and I am only a BA customer but what has happened to the hot towels in club europe?
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Hiflyer 14 I think you will find the pay cut was offered and by those who were earning over x amount and to be paid back when the company gets back to profitability which is looking more likely that will be sooner than later. Now the proposal is off the table I am assuming less will be offered and a lot was offered.
With regards to voting No then why are you putting your subs down the toilet?
Just to be one of the hundred or so who vote no against the other 12000.
I am probably right in assuming you are not even a member but just living up to the mantra on this forum.
People here think the silent majority are against the union. Its pathetic and a million miles away from the truth.
With regards to voting No then why are you putting your subs down the toilet?
Just to be one of the hundred or so who vote no against the other 12000.
I am probably right in assuming you are not even a member but just living up to the mantra on this forum.
People here think the silent majority are against the union. Its pathetic and a million miles away from the truth.
PPRuNe Person
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'am i bothered': Your first paragraph makes no sense.
Second paragraph: people are not sheep, they can exercise free will!
Your last two lines seem typical of BASSA 'brainwashing' -
- challenge the credentials of the poster
- attack the forum (which gives you the freedom to express your opinion!)
- make a grand sweeping assumption
- use the language of exaggeration and rhetoric
The fact you can do this in three short sentences is, in a way, to be admired!
When will we ever get a cogent argument from the BASSA viewpoint?
Second paragraph: people are not sheep, they can exercise free will!
Your last two lines seem typical of BASSA 'brainwashing' -
- challenge the credentials of the poster
- attack the forum (which gives you the freedom to express your opinion!)
- make a grand sweeping assumption
- use the language of exaggeration and rhetoric
The fact you can do this in three short sentences is, in a way, to be admired!
When will we ever get a cogent argument from the BASSA viewpoint?
Last edited by overstress; 18th Sep 2009 at 10:58.
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Who is LaLa Lady? Is this the Chairperson of BASSA?
I've heard that she is a part-time, old contract CSD that
commutes from France. I'm sure that she can relate to
the needs of new contract crew - especially those at LGW.
Perhaps some one could tell us all what percentage of BASSA
reps are on the old contract?
I've heard that she is a part-time, old contract CSD that
commutes from France. I'm sure that she can relate to
the needs of new contract crew - especially those at LGW.
Perhaps some one could tell us all what percentage of BASSA
reps are on the old contract?
I am probably right in assuming you are not even a member but just living up to the mantra on this forum.
... when the company gets back to profitability which is looking more likely that will be sooner than later.
Slightly OT, but anyone who thinks that the recession is already over and that we're returning to healthy growth might want to read this:
UK recession may end in months - Miles | Reuters
The most significant comment IMO is that any recovery, when it occurs, is going to be weak.
UK recession may end in months - Miles | Reuters
The most significant comment IMO is that any recovery, when it occurs, is going to be weak.