British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Watching a financial segment on CNN at the weekend about the next financial bubble set to burst. Apparently there are lots of 3 and 5 year notes about to fall due in respect to the commercail real estate market.
Due to recession and businesses not wanting to move into a new wharehouse/office/strip mall a lot of developers about to default on their mortgages. The losses to banks forcast to possibly run to trillions not billions this time.
Like I didn't have enough to worry about. I am sure that there are crew that still think temporary change is all that is required. It might be that BA are too late to enact SOSR before the bubble bursts. All this protracted "negotiation" and failing to agree might have left us up the creek with no paddle or boat and the creditors asking for our life jacket !
Due to recession and businesses not wanting to move into a new wharehouse/office/strip mall a lot of developers about to default on their mortgages. The losses to banks forcast to possibly run to trillions not billions this time.
Like I didn't have enough to worry about. I am sure that there are crew that still think temporary change is all that is required. It might be that BA are too late to enact SOSR before the bubble bursts. All this protracted "negotiation" and failing to agree might have left us up the creek with no paddle or boat and the creditors asking for our life jacket !
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Do you feel like you have been properly informed? Do you know the legal ramifications? Do you understand precisely how the numbers of crew in surplus have come from? Have you been consulted as to whether you would like to collectively save people from the dole or just let BA CR them if it comes to that? Do you feel that your reps are engaging with BA as best they can before something is imposed? Do you trust them with your livelihood?
Unfortunately not. I would actually prefer if they wrote anything sensibly in their newsletters instead of the usual trashing the management to every extent.
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Thanks for that link. Here's a cut and paste of an important part.
and leave, or are dismissed under the old contract and re-engaged.
Is there an alternative method of making contractual changes
if agreement on a variation cannot be reached?
if agreement on a variation cannot be reached?
•
Yes. If, after negotiation, agreement on a variation of contract has proved
to be impossible, an employer can terminate the original contract, with
proper notice, and offer a new contract to the employee, including the
revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking
such action. If the employee accepts the new contract, continuity is
preserved.
to be impossible, an employer can terminate the original contract, with
proper notice, and offer a new contract to the employee, including the
revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking
such action. If the employee accepts the new contract, continuity is
preserved.
•
Proper notice will be as specified (or implied) in the employee’s contract,
or the minimum statutory notice period, whichever is the longer.
or the minimum statutory notice period, whichever is the longer.
•
Under the law the termination will be regarded as a dismissal and it will be
open to all eligible employees to claim unfair dismissal before an
employment tribunal – whether they refuse to accept the new contract
open to all eligible employees to claim unfair dismissal before an
employment tribunal – whether they refuse to accept the new contract
and leave, or are dismissed under the old contract and re-engaged.
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So the acas documents covers changes in contracts, there will be other relevant documentation covering changes to agreements. Many of the changes being discussed are probably not contractual e.g. 2 nights in LA, CSD not performing a function within the service routine, x days off after a long haul. These will be agreements rather than contractual details.
The process for changing agreements is probably in your union recognition agreement.
The process for changing agreements is probably in your union recognition agreement.
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A change of direction?
Looking at the Amicus ******* page, I am intrigued by the following "Joint NSP currently taking place regarding Pay, Redeployment and Careerlink. Update ASAP".
This is the first time that I can recall during this process that there has been mention of either "redeployment" or "Careerlink".
This is the first time that I can recall during this process that there has been mention of either "redeployment" or "Careerlink".
Stormin,
Lots of companies outside Aviation have such "redeployment" schemes. If you look where the BA HRD/Chief People Person, (!) has been in the last few years - BAe and Post Office, I imagine that BA will look to his experience in those places. However, in those places at least the employer and the TUs talked to each other!! If the TUs are on the ball, and talking effectively to the employer, they can influence all these stages.
First step is defining what the new org. needs, then selecting existing staff in to that (presumably reduced) new org. Some one somewhere in BA will have figured this out, at least in outline. Then you have two main groups - those with a job in the new org., and those without.
Some of those without will already have indicated a wish to either take early retirement, or to be made redundant. They will be allowed to go. Those with a job are not normally allowed to go at this stage as it's too expensive.
For those without, first thing is to look for redeployment opportunities within. Whilst BT have been good at this, the Post Office were not.........they just moved people in to the external redeployment pool. Then "creative external redeployment" comes in. Lots of ways of doing this, but it can be expensive. Most Co.s try the "voluntary" route first, but often with short timescales before they move to the involuntary route. That's when "scoring" comes in to play - things like performance, absence, service time and so on.
Two things to bear in mind. The individual often does not believe that they will personally be impacted until they receive the dismissal letter. All the comms in the world doesn't change this.
Secondly, the "Iron Law of Fantasy" comes in to play. (Doesn't it, PK?). No matter what you've said as an employer, each individual will fantasise about what is going to happen. Those fantasies are normally negative about something horrible (in work/employment terms, not in safety terms), happening to them. Rumours rule!...........and that'll continue for some time.
Lots of companies outside Aviation have such "redeployment" schemes. If you look where the BA HRD/Chief People Person, (!) has been in the last few years - BAe and Post Office, I imagine that BA will look to his experience in those places. However, in those places at least the employer and the TUs talked to each other!! If the TUs are on the ball, and talking effectively to the employer, they can influence all these stages.
First step is defining what the new org. needs, then selecting existing staff in to that (presumably reduced) new org. Some one somewhere in BA will have figured this out, at least in outline. Then you have two main groups - those with a job in the new org., and those without.
Some of those without will already have indicated a wish to either take early retirement, or to be made redundant. They will be allowed to go. Those with a job are not normally allowed to go at this stage as it's too expensive.
For those without, first thing is to look for redeployment opportunities within. Whilst BT have been good at this, the Post Office were not.........they just moved people in to the external redeployment pool. Then "creative external redeployment" comes in. Lots of ways of doing this, but it can be expensive. Most Co.s try the "voluntary" route first, but often with short timescales before they move to the involuntary route. That's when "scoring" comes in to play - things like performance, absence, service time and so on.
Two things to bear in mind. The individual often does not believe that they will personally be impacted until they receive the dismissal letter. All the comms in the world doesn't change this.
Secondly, the "Iron Law of Fantasy" comes in to play. (Doesn't it, PK?). No matter what you've said as an employer, each individual will fantasise about what is going to happen. Those fantasies are normally negative about something horrible (in work/employment terms, not in safety terms), happening to them. Rumours rule!...........and that'll continue for some time.
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A little bird told me the BASSA reps tried to go off on an anti-BALPA rant at the NSP talks at Cranebank and the rest of the union reps told them to put a sock in it. It also turns out that the other groups reps are far from happy about Unite using their members as bargaining chips to help the cabin crew out. So much for the united front!
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Well after Walsh and Woodlys fireside chat, both side were to go away and find some common ground on how they could move forwards. All this is behind the scene and well away from "official negotiations" .
A date of the 14th September was agreed by Unite for talks to resume, except that............................ BASSA resented being "told" when to start negotiating so ignored the deadline right up until yesterday, insisting that they had never agreed to this.
Further at least one of the high ranking BASSA reps thinks its a good idea to prolong this as it puts more pressure on BA when it comes to the publishing of the October rosters
it will according to them "wind the crew into a frenzy" apparently.
A date of the 14th September was agreed by Unite for talks to resume, except that............................ BASSA resented being "told" when to start negotiating so ignored the deadline right up until yesterday, insisting that they had never agreed to this.
Further at least one of the high ranking BASSA reps thinks its a good idea to prolong this as it puts more pressure on BA when it comes to the publishing of the October rosters
it will according to them "wind the crew into a frenzy" apparently.
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Further at least one of the high ranking BASSA reps thinks its a good idea to prolong this as it puts more pressure on BA
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Maybe the Bassa chairperson is once again otherwise engaged on personal business for a few weeks.
Part time old contract csd who lives on another continent.
But has her finger on the pulse, and the crew's best interests at heart -- honestly.
Part time old contract csd who lives on another continent.
But has her finger on the pulse, and the crew's best interests at heart -- honestly.
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The latest from the madness that is Bassa:
BASSA reps turned up today for our monthly “manpower” meeting only to discover at short notice it had been cancelled. At the informal meeting which than followed, BA informed us they had no balances and currently no plan for the winter programme. So, in a nutshell, they knew as much as us, and therefore could see no point in a formal minuted meeting. This is incredibly frustrating for all crew who have spent the last 12 months on tenterhooks wondering just what the future holds.
The manpower meeting has always been a proper decision making group, but it seems currently, any decisions being made regarding headcount etc, are being decided by the " powers that be " in IFCE, without prior consultation to the people who normally front up this dept. A classic example of the “left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing” happened just after our informal meeting ended ,when it was discovered a “comm.” had gone out to all crew from Bill Francis re: the voluntary severance.
As most of you will have seen from this “comm.”, only a small number of crew will be allowed to go on the previously promised date of 31st Oct. These seem to be only in the areas where they exhausted the 1st part time lists - not the ad-hoc lists, which followed, so some CSDs across fleets, and some PSRs on WW. The rest of you who wish to go are now “on hold”.
We are still scheduled to meet BA on the 21st September. Reading Bill Francis’s latest ESS message, he seems to think that meeting will be “a stroll in the park”. Twice he mentions discussion, and once consultation, but strangely enough not negotiation! Remember, IFCE are still championing removing over 2000 of the crew community, so to take ONE SIXTH of your workforce away still means drastic changes, as there are no other simple answers. They will either have to drastically cut the flying programme (unlikely), recruit 1000s of new crew, or those left behind have to work harder - less days off, less leave, less rest down route etc, etc. Therefore any talks with BA will hardly be the stroll in the park Bill Francis is pining his hopes on.
To be brutally frank (and we make no apologies) BA and Bill Francis are all over the place - they haven’t a clue, and they can’t even get the date of the meetings right, let alone sensible workable solutions. It is an utter shambolic mess and one, which BA should be ashamed of, especially as they hold - in their palms - the hopes, aspirations and livelihoods of thousands of their cabin crew employees.
Those of you, who hoped to leave, and now have your life on hold, have our sympathies. Perhaps BA would have been better off achieving an agreed settlement with the TUs and, on the basis of that, deciding how many crew could leave and have part time, instead of rash promises, now at best, on hold.
The “smash and grab” raid on crews’ terms and conditions has backfired spectacularly - the business is turning around, the recession is in decline and all the devious plans hatched by the most unscrupulous management in a generation are unravelling with every day.
Hold firm and stay strong, we feel now the wind is behind us and before long everything BA have been plotting and scheming will be exposed as nothing more than an opportunistic scam.
More news, will follow next week, we assume but don’t hold your breath judging by the current disarray within Bill Francis’s IFCE “empire”.
My bolds, due to finding those statements quite amusing. A very mature way of informing their members - not. It amuses me that Bassa hasn't realised that the flying programme is being reduced for the winter (aircraft being mothballed), and think that giving VR to 2000 crew means that the company will have to recruit "1000's of new crews".
Brace brace for incoming...
Gg
BASSA reps turned up today for our monthly “manpower” meeting only to discover at short notice it had been cancelled. At the informal meeting which than followed, BA informed us they had no balances and currently no plan for the winter programme. So, in a nutshell, they knew as much as us, and therefore could see no point in a formal minuted meeting. This is incredibly frustrating for all crew who have spent the last 12 months on tenterhooks wondering just what the future holds.
The manpower meeting has always been a proper decision making group, but it seems currently, any decisions being made regarding headcount etc, are being decided by the " powers that be " in IFCE, without prior consultation to the people who normally front up this dept. A classic example of the “left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing” happened just after our informal meeting ended ,when it was discovered a “comm.” had gone out to all crew from Bill Francis re: the voluntary severance.
As most of you will have seen from this “comm.”, only a small number of crew will be allowed to go on the previously promised date of 31st Oct. These seem to be only in the areas where they exhausted the 1st part time lists - not the ad-hoc lists, which followed, so some CSDs across fleets, and some PSRs on WW. The rest of you who wish to go are now “on hold”.
We are still scheduled to meet BA on the 21st September. Reading Bill Francis’s latest ESS message, he seems to think that meeting will be “a stroll in the park”. Twice he mentions discussion, and once consultation, but strangely enough not negotiation! Remember, IFCE are still championing removing over 2000 of the crew community, so to take ONE SIXTH of your workforce away still means drastic changes, as there are no other simple answers. They will either have to drastically cut the flying programme (unlikely), recruit 1000s of new crew, or those left behind have to work harder - less days off, less leave, less rest down route etc, etc. Therefore any talks with BA will hardly be the stroll in the park Bill Francis is pining his hopes on.
To be brutally frank (and we make no apologies) BA and Bill Francis are all over the place - they haven’t a clue, and they can’t even get the date of the meetings right, let alone sensible workable solutions. It is an utter shambolic mess and one, which BA should be ashamed of, especially as they hold - in their palms - the hopes, aspirations and livelihoods of thousands of their cabin crew employees.
Those of you, who hoped to leave, and now have your life on hold, have our sympathies. Perhaps BA would have been better off achieving an agreed settlement with the TUs and, on the basis of that, deciding how many crew could leave and have part time, instead of rash promises, now at best, on hold.
The “smash and grab” raid on crews’ terms and conditions has backfired spectacularly - the business is turning around, the recession is in decline and all the devious plans hatched by the most unscrupulous management in a generation are unravelling with every day.
Hold firm and stay strong, we feel now the wind is behind us and before long everything BA have been plotting and scheming will be exposed as nothing more than an opportunistic scam.
More news, will follow next week, we assume but don’t hold your breath judging by the current disarray within Bill Francis’s IFCE “empire”.
My bolds, due to finding those statements quite amusing. A very mature way of informing their members - not. It amuses me that Bassa hasn't realised that the flying programme is being reduced for the winter (aircraft being mothballed), and think that giving VR to 2000 crew means that the company will have to recruit "1000's of new crews".
Brace brace for incoming...
Gg
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Why are they surprised that decisions are being made by 'the powers that be'. Arent those people the ones employed to make decisions, having listened to all relevant view points?
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The “smash and grab” raid on crews’ terms and conditions has backfired spectacularly - the business is turning around, the recession is in decline and all the devious plans hatched by the most unscrupulous management in a generation are unravelling with every day.
Even the economists are totally undecided as to whether or not the recession will kick back in again over the winter. Another 10% is still expected to be wiped off house prices. Airlines have had a dismal summer with most returning little, no or negative profits. This during the summer where most airlines bolster their coffers in order to push through the normal bleak winter period. Business turning around? Not with the yield that most passengers are bringing with them. Possibly due to all those other departments who realised, over a year ago, that cost savings were required and implemented them.
As to the 'smash and grab' raid, since when has that really had anything to do with the recession. BA have been after CC alignment since the early 1990's when it became apparent that their T's & C's were diverging from the industrial standard at an alarming rate! It has always been that the BA management didn't have the balls to actually push it through.
most unscrupulous management in a generation