British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[Slickster]

Well, luckily, I don't have access, so can't read it. I'm not sure why it always turns out to be a rant against pilots. There are a few pilots who post on here, but not enough, and certainly not enough nasty postings, to engender such vitriol. Where does it all come from? Is it because they are unable to construct a coherent argument, therefore just try the "class warrior" route, of attacking those paid more than them, or can they just not get over the fact that I'm in charge? Curious.

On another note, I am disappointed that BA won their case. I'm glad that anyone who is still travelling with us can still do so, and in no way wish anyone's Christmas to be ruined, but I feel that UNITE has cynically cost BA millions of pounds, through its moronic action (BA have been frantically rebooking, refusing bookings etc, damage to the brand), and got off scot free, to carry on its cretinous attempts to try and tell a company how to operate. They've looked stupid in court, but the only harm done is to BA, and the muppets can still ballot again.

No doubt BASSA will play the "corporate giant beating the little man" card, and flounce off to fight another day. God help us.

[4468]

I have it on very good authority that there has indeed been (if not bullying, then) some pretty nasty, and totally unnecessary comments from pilots, as well as members of the public.

I think all of us, including passengers if I may say, should bear in mind that many CC voted no. Also that a number of CC who found their way onto here (and elsewhere) were prepared to take the very uncomfortable decision to cross picket lines. I don't believe they were doing this for selfish reasons. Quite the opposite!

Of course many CC are not even members of Unite, and would have worked normally. I even know a number who voted yes, yet felt they would have to work. Again, not for selfish reasons!

As far as the whooping and cheering at Sandown was concerned, please remember this was after the 92% was announced. I may have missed it, but I didn't see any similar scenes when the '12 days of Xmas' was announced!

I genuinely believe this was a shock to the vast majority of decent CC. This cynical and utterly disproportionate choice, would have been down to the egos of probably less than half a dozen 'Trotskies'!

Certainly I, and I hope all those aboard BA planes in the coming weeks, will assume that the CC on my aircraft were either intending to work, or at worst were cynically mislead.

Yes, I may very well be wrong. But to paraphrase another, I would much prefer that 10 'strikers' were given the benefit of the doubt, than one hard working CC be made to suffer unfairly, the opprobrium for the stupidity of his/her colleagues.

We still have some of the best CC in the business.

Go careful out there!

[Dairyground]

I seem to recall that a thousand or so posts ago it was suggested that there were multiple flaws in the Unite ballot. Reports of the injuction hearing suggest that BA raised only one flaw. Do they have other potential shots in their locker for the next time?

[Slickster]

I have it on very good authority that there has indeed been (if not bullying, then) some pretty nasty, and totally unnecessary comments from pilots, as well as members of the public.

Good, then, if that gets the message across. What do these people need, before they open their eyes, and realise what is going on in the wider World? Airlines going bust left, right, and centre, and in the meantime, BA CC are going on strike because they have to work "one down", and yet still retain all their Ts and Cs, without a pay cut.

I try not to bring the subject up at work, but inevitably, someone else does. I've had people ask me what they should do. I've had other people tell me they can't get sacked (should I smirk at their ignorance, or tell them the reality? I did yesterday, and got the FD slammed very hard. More CRM lessons for me then!).

Comments from passengers: you reap what you sow. Comments from pilots: if they're that bad use the company bullying policy - it's fairly comprehensive. But I doubt any of the passengers' or pilots' comments were anywhere as close to bullying as the tripe spouted by the BASSA 100% brigade.

[Weather Map]

4468 .....92% voted to strike you need to remember that .

[malcolmf]

I think we pilots have been remarkably restrained, we are in a company which is very close to going bust and most staff have recognised that. I am in the twilight of my career and would probably never get another flying job, and have to bite my tongue when faced with the loss of my job and pension.
We must remember that BASSA are the representatives of BA CC and have been voted into that position. What turnout was there at the last election?

[Tiramisu]

Slickster,

I'm with you in a way, I think Unite and those intending to Strike have got off very lightly. I thought that it would have been an opportunity to sack the militants who dare bring BA down.
On the other hand, I'm relieved as one of those cabin crew who voted No, resigned from Unite and had volunteered to work over the strike period, that a million passengers will now be able to enjoy their Christmas.
I also know friends on Worldwide who have also resigned from BASSA.


Malcomf,

I share your sentiments and feel the same. As a CSD I have to bite my tongue sometimes as well when I hear BA bashing from some of my colleagues. It worries me too, that I also would not be able to get another job in my position being in twilight years myself.


4468
Thank you for sticking up for us, your cabin crew. I have to be honest that in all my years with BA, I've never had any bullying from our Pilots. On the contrary, I've always enjoyed a professional and very comfortable working relationship with our Pilots who are some of the best in the industry.

[babymike737]

I have read that average pay of BA CC is Ł29K while Virgin CC manage on average Ł14K. Is this true?

Leave aside my personal experience of long haul Upper Class being vastly superior to Club World, from check-in to hotel transfer, if it is true, what on earth would make BA crew think they are worth twice as much as VA?

They're not and WW is trying his best to adjust pay scales. One day they will be payed accordingly. Unite and BASSA are doing their best to uphold incomprehensible pay scales for people who don't realise how overpayed they are. In the future, BA will have to adopt the low cost mentality if they want to survive, and if they don't, they will sink. It's not difficult to see that. Aviation has changed and will change progressively even more! Pilots and cabin crew are ten a penny. I'm a pilot, and I fear my future, so will retrain to be a carpenter or plumber. Flying will be a bad career in ten years time.

[SlideBustle]

I am so glad that BA won the injunction!! Just hope Unite accept BAs need for change, asnd negotiate properly that will satisfy BA and will be reasonable for us - no throwing toys out the pram just because they can't keep all the agreements!! I just hope they do not ballot again!!!

[Glamgirl]

Firstly, I'm very pleased about the injunction, even if it still leaves "room" for union to cause more trouble in the future. My main worry was our customers, to be honest, and now they'll get to their destinations.

My two worries now, are snow and working to rule. Considering the shambles last winter, and no alleviations from bassa & insisting on two local nights, not forgetting that the whole country comes to a standstill as soon as snow is forecast (and it's snowing now), I dread to think what'll happen in the next few days. Bassa will try to use every little bit of power they may have left by causing disruption to discretion (as an example) - unless WW has given them a big "ultimatum" (for the lack of a better word).

In regards to working to rule, several posters have given strong indications that they will be working to rule due to the injunction. These posters are from the "other" forums we know so well. Some people have advised them not to do this, and quite rightly so, as it's now seen as another form of IA. Therefore, it would have to be part of another ballot/"authorised" by the union. However, with the evidence we have of the intelligence of SOME (and hopefully in a minority) crew, it wouldn't surprise me if these people went ahead with it anyway. Cue disiplinary action for these "poor and unfairly treated" crew members.

Mind how you go...

Gg

[Glamgirl]

A couple of other things, if I may...

It's just dawned on me - yes, it takes a while sometimes... Why the 12 days of strike was wanted? The official line from the union was that it would include all cc, and not just some if a 3 day strike was chosen. Would this be because unite actually thought BA would go ahead and sack cc (unfairly, not legally), and somehow thought that BA couldn't sack all of them?

Another thing I wanted to add, is that I've never had any bullying comments from pilots in all my time in the company. I've had discussions where we haven't agreed, but this doesn't mean it's bullying. I find that if you treat people with respect, you'll receive respect back. Some people will talk badly about others, regardless which role they have in the company (or indeed life).

Gg

[deeceethree]

Glamgirl,

However, with the evidence we have of the intelligence of SOME (and hopefully in a minority) crew, it wouldn't surprise me if these people went ahead with it anyway.

Unfortunately, the "SOME" you mention in this instance could not be a minority. The vast majority, as proven by the ballot results (empirical evidence!)voted 'Yes'. Cue their shock and horror when Unite then tell them that the strike they voted for is on, and for 12 days too!.

If they didn't want to strike, or strike for that long, then they shouldn't have voted 'Yes'! It certainly appears that all the 'Yes' voters, the majority, were clearly displaying a lack of intelligence. Strike ballots are not about playing juvenile games - perhaps they have all learnt a lasting lesson!

[Desertia]

IHeartMBT,

This one is for you, since you have not demonstrated that you have an adequate grasp of your company's finances:

Pensions consultant John Ralfe said: 'I think the company want people to reach the conclusion that they will close the scheme to existing members without them having to say it. Anything less than that (closure) certainly doesn't work.'

He claimed the Pension Regulator views BA's scheme as the riskiest in the UK, because of the size of the deficit and the company's weak credit rating.

BA was this year downgraded to junk status, making it hugely expensive to raise debt financing.

BA (down 4.8p at 192.2p) would only say it will be working on its 'recovery plan' to sort out the scheme's funding with trustees, staff and unions.

[MrBernoulli]

The following is not an unexpected response from the BASSA forums:

Under no circumstances allow those smug b*****ds at the front try to belittle or humiliate you in any way shape or form.

On the vile Pprune site and the Balpa site they are already acting as if THEY are the victors in all of this.

If any one of them try to engage you simply say to them the magic word EG102

Then make a complaint against them - they are t*****s

DIGNITY AT WORK - HARASSMENT AND BULLYING

Examples of harassment and bullying may include:

• behaviour which an individual knows or ought reasonably to know would cause or be
likely to cause fear or excessive anxiety to another;
• threatening or coercive behaviour by actions or words, including humiliation and ridicule;
• physical conduct ranging from unacceptable touching to serious assault;
• abusing one’s position of authority or power to the detriment of another or imposing unfair sanctions;
• encouraging someone to abuse their position of authority to the detriment of another;
• offensive or suggestive jokes, banter or language;
• displaying pictures, graffiti, flags and emblems which could reasonably be considered to be offensive;
• isolation of an individual or group of individuals and non co-operation at work or exclusion from work-related social activities;
• deliberate action outside work which adversely affects an individual’s working life; and • vandalism of an individual’s property with the intention of causing fear or anxiety.
This list is not exhaustive.

Harassment and bullying may consist of a single act or a series of acts.

Blame the pilots! Its laughable! BASSA vote for strike action, nearly faint when they belatedly realise what strike action really is, and it might involve 12 days of their time, and then a judge tells them their ballot is illegal ....... and it is the fault of the pilots, apparently.

When will folk realise how hopeless some of you BASSA members are making yourselves look? Call the pilots "smug b*****ds" and "t*****s" and then suggest that 'offended' cabin crew might like to avail themselves of the company's Dignity At Work rules. Are you for real? Threaten the company and livelihoods of thousands with an anti-company strike, call the pilots names, and then attempt to hide behind company Dignity At Work rues? Talk about digging deep holes ............

Perhaps the author of this BASSA nonsense should have looked a bit more closely at:

• threatening or coercive behaviour by actions or words, including humiliation and ridicule;

• offensive or suggestive jokes, banter or language;

[Dawdler]

With regard to BASSA making suggestions that their YES voters might be subject to the following:-

• behaviour which an individual knows or ought reasonably to know would cause or be
likely to cause fear or excessive anxiety to another;
• threatening or coercive behaviour by actions or words, including humiliation and ridicule;
• physical conduct ranging from unacceptable touching to serious assault;
• abusing one’s position of authority or power to the detriment of another or imposing unfair sanctions;
• encouraging someone to abuse their position of authority to the detriment of another;
• offensive or suggestive jokes, banter or language;
• displaying pictures, graffiti, flags and emblems which could reasonably be considered to be offensive;
• isolation of an individual or group of individuals and non co-operation at work or exclusion from work-related social activities;
• deliberate action outside work which adversely affects an individual’s working life; and • vandalism of an individual’s property with the intention of causing fear or anxiety.
This list is not exhaustive.

Harassment and bullying may consist of a single act or a series of acts.

I seem to remember pages and pages ago that the NO voters were subject to exactly that sort of behavior from the Yes voters.

Are they now expecting a taste of their own medicine?

[wiggy]

Morning All.

What is laughable/sad is that despite the fact that the BASSA case was sunk by a forum posting this nonsense continues on their Union website.

Reminder: If you write anything on a Union forum the Company will read it, and may well demand that the poster is identified ( cf. disclosure) in any subsequent Court case.

edited to add: I'm a silly s**, I'm assuming BASSA has told it's members the full details of what went on in Court....

[Der absolute Hammer]

This is from a well known British newspaper. It is quite well written even if you did not agree with the sentiment.

Engulfed by their own propaganda, wallowing in grievance and entitlement, BA's eager strikers are not fighting for a noble cause. They are masquerading as victims in order to pursue self-interest, while dressing it up as virtue.

[Human Factor]

Engulfed by their own propaganda, wallowing in grievance and entitlement, BA's eager strikers are not fighting for a noble cause. They are masquerading as victims in order to pursue self-interest, while dressing it up as virtue.

"Believing your own publicity" is the cardinal sin here. So, now there's possibility they're going to have another go. Arrogance, incompetence or stupidity? You decide.

[sentosa1942]

Hurah for the British Courts

As a flight deck crew I was happy to see that the British Courts have stopped that ridiculous strike by BA Cabin crew. With BA as an airline in trouble and the economy still in recession, with yet another airline going under Globe Span the Cabin Crew and Unite need there heads examing. I've been out of work six months since my company went under, I would much rather taken some cuts than loose my job.

Keep up the good work BA management, Willy save the company !!!!!! Well done BA LGW

[deeceethree]

Your typical union rep is an intellectually stunted, short sighted, narrow minded selfish prat who knows nothing about business never mind the extraordinary pressures on airlines at the moment

I am happy to report that the BA company council BALPA reps that we have are some of the finest minds in the business - a very astute lot.

I guess you are referring to the older, dogmatic unions, of which we have seen some example simpletons trotted out over the last few days. And if that Malone creature pops her head above the parapets any time soon she had better expect to get it shot off.