British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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I'm not saying that required items are not being covered, but that the manner in which people are making statements shows very little consideration of others maybe holding different views or opinions. As such, this can affect the overall mood in which some of us board the aircraft.
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How I wish there were more like her.
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Do you know what TorC, I think there's quite a few like her, I do think though that a lot of them are tired of trying to cut through the animalistic, snarling and aggressive rants that are being put out by some of the more militant crew and maybe that stops some of them speaking up for fear of being utterly lambasted. That said, if I'm right, it's such a shame they don't say more because as more do speak up, it gives heart to those who agree to give their voice to the opposing point of view. I hope I'm right that the likes of yourself, GG, Nuigini and my wife are in much more of a majority than other internet forums would indicate!
All the best,
MrB
All the best,
MrB
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Do you know what TorC, I think there's quite a few like her, I do think though that a lot of them are tired of trying to cut through the animalistic, snarling and aggressive rants that are being put out by some of the more militant crew and maybe that stops some of them speaking up for fear of being utterly lambasted. That said, if I'm right, it's such a shame they don't say more because as more do speak up, it gives heart to those who agree to give their voice to the opposing point of view. I hope I'm right that the likes of yourself, GG, Nuigini and my wife are in much more of a majority than other internet forums would indicate!
All the best,
MrB
All the best,
MrB
Yes, I think (and pray) that you are correct.
I have no objection to discussing the issues, if the time and the place are right. However, as I've indicated, it can very rarely be termed a discussion as such, usually more of a rant. To start a working day this way can have a serious effect on onboard working relationships in so many ways.
I worry about it on 2 fronts: 1 - the militancy of some and 2 - the apparent ignorance of others. The 1st group I can deal with, they are so far gone there is no reasoning with them (and they ARE in the minority). The 2nd group are the ones I really worry about as they are being led astray and seem either unwilling or unable to seriously look beyond the surface.
Thanks again
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TorC,
I couldn't agree with you more and, on the second group, I'd say it's one place where BA could be doing a whole lot more to present more information to explain where they're coming from and attempt to persuade those who remain undecided. My hope is that they'll soon start to counter some of the BASSA claims rather than maintaining a mildly disturbing silence!
Keep your chin up in the meantime I guess!
Look forward to meeting you round the route some time.
All the best,
MrB
I couldn't agree with you more and, on the second group, I'd say it's one place where BA could be doing a whole lot more to present more information to explain where they're coming from and attempt to persuade those who remain undecided. My hope is that they'll soon start to counter some of the BASSA claims rather than maintaining a mildly disturbing silence!
Keep your chin up in the meantime I guess!
Look forward to meeting you round the route some time.
All the best,
MrB
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Disturbing silence?
"My hope is that they'll soon start to counter some of the BASSA claims rather than maintaining a mildly disturbing silence! "
I'm sure a clear explanation of everything that is going to be done will be included with the new contract - including the consequences of not signing.
The beauty of this approach is that those sensible people who do not wish to follow the lemmings off a cliff will be able to quietly affirm to the company their willingness to accept the new t&c's, without revealing themselves to the lynch mob of squealing witches.
I don't remember anyone saying they had to start the 90 day clocking ticking for ALL CC at the same time, either?
I think it would be quite amusing to see the looks on the covens' faces when they find that their table thumping, toys out of the pram approach has left them completely isolated from their colleagues; colleagues who have a rational understanding of the current economic realities facing the company, both in the short and long terms.
You bet your a** that they're not in the minority!
I'm sure a clear explanation of everything that is going to be done will be included with the new contract - including the consequences of not signing.
The beauty of this approach is that those sensible people who do not wish to follow the lemmings off a cliff will be able to quietly affirm to the company their willingness to accept the new t&c's, without revealing themselves to the lynch mob of squealing witches.
I don't remember anyone saying they had to start the 90 day clocking ticking for ALL CC at the same time, either?
I think it would be quite amusing to see the looks on the covens' faces when they find that their table thumping, toys out of the pram approach has left them completely isolated from their colleagues; colleagues who have a rational understanding of the current economic realities facing the company, both in the short and long terms.
You bet your a** that they're not in the minority!
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I see the protest at the AGM may not have influenced the corporate shareholders as much as was being originally touted.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
MrB
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTM=&t=1
MrB
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Read with interest!
Not working for either BA or Bassa I have been fascinated by the goings on over the past few months and have a keen interest in "all" that is going on. As a BA shareholder, and I hasten to add not a majority shareholder it is always interesting to see "both" sides of the story. I was fascinated the other week to be shown a "leaked" copy of what was clearly marked as a "strictly private and confidential" document namely the MOA from BA to Unite. Amazed that this supposed "strictly private and confidential" document was emailed to Bassa members! Today I have been shown a "letter from willie" published on the Bassa website. Abiding by the "nothing on this site should be copied, published without prior consent of Bassa" I have not copied it into this posting. I feel that even if I approached them to publish it here, the answer would be "NO". Can't think why.... I have never read such an inane and childish document which does nothing but slur WW, blame him for everything and alas stir up the minority!!!! Do the hard working cabin crew who pay monthly subscriptions to be part of the union realise that this is what their "subscriptions" go towards paying for. After all isn't the purpose of a union to work for "all" of its members and not just a few. I wonder has anyone else read this document and would care to share their views on it. If it was meant as a light hearted joke, well good on you. But there is a time and a place!!!! Much as I agree there are two sides to every argument. Constructive discussion and compromise often results in something that is agreeable to all parties. So far all that seems to have happened is BA say "no" to Bassa's proposal - Bassa say "no" to BA's proposal. And all of this in two days. For "discussions" that have been going on for months, not much of a "result" for either side. Perhaps now with ACAS involved and with some "adult" discussions taking place perhaps a resolution can be reached. The ground is cluttered with all of these "toys" that have been thrown out of the prams. The rumour mill is busy at work as always. Perhaps its time for the "mud throwing" to stop and both sides sit down and behave like "adults". After all, as an outsider, its hard to believe we are talking about a reputable company and a trade union, rather than children in a school playground. I have no doubt the "majority" of cabin crew can see the wood through the trees and when the time comes will make a just and informed decision without any outside pressure, bullying or fear of reprisals. Good luck to you all.
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Oh, please, let me. This is what those ace negotiators at BASSA have as their masterstroke;
There you go. If I was paying a tithe from my salary for the minds that decided what you read above is a sensible and mature way to react, I'd be most displeased. The issue is NOT the CC, nor even the salaries, but the inflexibility of the Union that has been allowed to dictate operating conditions for way too long.
It's a wake up call. Ditch this pathetic excuse of a Union, accept some way-overdue changes to scheduling, productivity and disruption agreements(sorry, but if an aircraft diverts, you should stick with it, and it WILL affect your roster down the line. Tough. Live with it,) and negotiate remuneration from variable into basic. Note the word NEGOTIATE. MIght be a bit late for that, but the people you have been paying, the people that consider the above to be reasoned and appropriate are your representatives.
Your Union have failed you abominably. If you can't see that, and it is staring you in the face, then please, leave the company now before you drag it into the ground.
29th June
Dear Mass Media, Aviation Industry, Board, City, Shareholders and General Public at Large,
It is with deep regret that I write to inform you that on the stroke of midnight on the thirtieth of June 2009, British Airways will spontaneously combust.
It will cease to be. It will be an ex company.
Though cloaked in anticipated grief at this difficult time, I feel it is only right and proper that I take this opportunity to set the record straight.
It was nothing to do with me.
It wasn’t the millions in fines and bonuses and pay offs. It wasn’t the hedging of oil at an absurd price. It wasn’t the £1000 a day consultancy fees. It wasn’t the first class travel for life for me, my loyal friends, their families and my brother-in-law’s butcher’s mate. It was most certainly not the Terminal Five blip. No. That is all in the past and in the spirit of moving forward, I can only reiterate: It wasn’t me. And you know what else it wasn’t? The snow, the fog, the credit crunch or the war on terror. To sum up: There has been no mismanagement of any kind and I am sick of talking about the record billion pound profit we made only last year and having to justify what happened to it and the fact that I earn more than Obama and Brown put together. It’s all money well spent.
No, the demise of this once great company is the fault of one thing and one thing only. The Cabin Crew.
The sly, selfish, malingering Cabin Crew, whinging on endlessly about wanting to be paid for what in their Bacchanalian world passes for "work" and remonstrating over the destruction of their mercurial, purposeless lifestyles. The shirking, sticker-wielding soaks! If it’s not that they already work harder and longer for less than they earned ten years ago and won’t live long enough to pick up their pitiful pensions, it’s their rash and insolent objection to replacing them with cheaper, younger, even stupider versions. Zealots! Oh they’ll go part-time and do more work and take a pay cut and fall over themselves for unpaid leave and give up all hope of promotion and save whatever random figure I may conjure. How dare they! I shall construe any further attempt at solution as Gross Misconduct.
To conclude: It was them.
Anyway, it’s all over as of the thirtieth. Why the thirtieth? Why not?
Love Willie xxx
Dear Mass Media, Aviation Industry, Board, City, Shareholders and General Public at Large,
It is with deep regret that I write to inform you that on the stroke of midnight on the thirtieth of June 2009, British Airways will spontaneously combust.
It will cease to be. It will be an ex company.
Though cloaked in anticipated grief at this difficult time, I feel it is only right and proper that I take this opportunity to set the record straight.
It was nothing to do with me.
It wasn’t the millions in fines and bonuses and pay offs. It wasn’t the hedging of oil at an absurd price. It wasn’t the £1000 a day consultancy fees. It wasn’t the first class travel for life for me, my loyal friends, their families and my brother-in-law’s butcher’s mate. It was most certainly not the Terminal Five blip. No. That is all in the past and in the spirit of moving forward, I can only reiterate: It wasn’t me. And you know what else it wasn’t? The snow, the fog, the credit crunch or the war on terror. To sum up: There has been no mismanagement of any kind and I am sick of talking about the record billion pound profit we made only last year and having to justify what happened to it and the fact that I earn more than Obama and Brown put together. It’s all money well spent.
No, the demise of this once great company is the fault of one thing and one thing only. The Cabin Crew.
The sly, selfish, malingering Cabin Crew, whinging on endlessly about wanting to be paid for what in their Bacchanalian world passes for "work" and remonstrating over the destruction of their mercurial, purposeless lifestyles. The shirking, sticker-wielding soaks! If it’s not that they already work harder and longer for less than they earned ten years ago and won’t live long enough to pick up their pitiful pensions, it’s their rash and insolent objection to replacing them with cheaper, younger, even stupider versions. Zealots! Oh they’ll go part-time and do more work and take a pay cut and fall over themselves for unpaid leave and give up all hope of promotion and save whatever random figure I may conjure. How dare they! I shall construe any further attempt at solution as Gross Misconduct.
To conclude: It was them.
Anyway, it’s all over as of the thirtieth. Why the thirtieth? Why not?
Love Willie xxx
It's a wake up call. Ditch this pathetic excuse of a Union, accept some way-overdue changes to scheduling, productivity and disruption agreements(sorry, but if an aircraft diverts, you should stick with it, and it WILL affect your roster down the line. Tough. Live with it,) and negotiate remuneration from variable into basic. Note the word NEGOTIATE. MIght be a bit late for that, but the people you have been paying, the people that consider the above to be reasoned and appropriate are your representatives.
Your Union have failed you abominably. If you can't see that, and it is staring you in the face, then please, leave the company now before you drag it into the ground.
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I would be excruciatingly embarrassed if my union had written anything like that. I'm all for union representation, otherwise how else would your voice be heard in such a large workforce? But really?!
The argument from many is that "BASSA is all we've got". Well, for a start, you get what you vote for, and secondly, I'd rather take my chances outside the union, with such a puerile, petulant bunch of reps. Would you rely on them to dig you out of the mire, if you ended up in trouble? They truly have reached rock-bottom, and are perhaps losing their minds (if they ever had any in the first place).
The argument from many is that "BASSA is all we've got". Well, for a start, you get what you vote for, and secondly, I'd rather take my chances outside the union, with such a puerile, petulant bunch of reps. Would you rely on them to dig you out of the mire, if you ended up in trouble? They truly have reached rock-bottom, and are perhaps losing their minds (if they ever had any in the first place).
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Plan 10 & Slickster
Thanks for reminding me why I'm now £15.39 per month better-off than I used to be. That letter is just plain awful. Insulting to intelligence, and just rehashing old valueless arguements.
Latest (as of yesterday) is that BA are asking PWC to independantly audit both sets of proposals. (But of course, some are already questioning the neutrality of PWC).
Thanks for reminding me why I'm now £15.39 per month better-off than I used to be. That letter is just plain awful. Insulting to intelligence, and just rehashing old valueless arguements.
Latest (as of yesterday) is that BA are asking PWC to independantly audit both sets of proposals. (But of course, some are already questioning the neutrality of PWC).
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Imagine my surprise that they'd question PWC's neutrality. This from the organisation that's already insinuated that BA have two sets of accounts, one especially concocted just to rip the crew off. Or that believed that the major shareholders would oust WW at the meeting. Or that MB had no idea what his CEO was doing and would sack him the minute he found out. Or published a breakdown of their figures and stated straight afterwards that they wouldn't engage in discussion with BA about those numbers. There's no telling BASSA anything that doesn't fit in with their point of view and it's alarming in the extreme. As for that letter, it's beneath contempt. Mind you, having seen people on the company forum calling BF and WW thieves and liars I'm amazed that people are so secure in the belief of their continued employment by the very people they so vehemently attack.
So many good men and women are being driven to the brink of redundancy by these self-righteous individuals.
I could weep.
MrB
So many good men and women are being driven to the brink of redundancy by these self-righteous individuals.
I could weep.
MrB
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Not only are they questioning the neautrality of PWC they are seemingly (in the latest letter) questioning their ability to carry out their jobs.
Are BASSA aware of who PWC are? and are they aware that the general public are likely to consider their opinion more reliable than that of the Union Reps - It's astounding that BASSA are actually saying that the membership should ignore the advice of the worlds largest professional service firm and take their beer mat accounting as gospel - I've just fallen off my bar stool!
Are BASSA aware of who PWC are? and are they aware that the general public are likely to consider their opinion more reliable than that of the Union Reps - It's astounding that BASSA are actually saying that the membership should ignore the advice of the worlds largest professional service firm and take their beer mat accounting as gospel - I've just fallen off my bar stool!
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No large corporation is immune to corruption lets not forget enron and our very own MP's.
BASSA does not object to PWC auditing the figures it would prefer unites accountants to work along side them.
Are they completely neutral? one of BA's biggest customers, the auditors that recommended a 100% pay rise for head of pensions. Lets not forget they will not de-roster any reps why these meetings go ahead.
As BALPA members would you be happy for meetings to continue whilst your elected reps were not able to represent you.
I am not saying it is a bad or good move, just food for thought.
BASSA does not object to PWC auditing the figures it would prefer unites accountants to work along side them.
Are they completely neutral? one of BA's biggest customers, the auditors that recommended a 100% pay rise for head of pensions. Lets not forget they will not de-roster any reps why these meetings go ahead.
As BALPA members would you be happy for meetings to continue whilst your elected reps were not able to represent you.
I am not saying it is a bad or good move, just food for thought.
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Auditors don't recommend pay rises, you do understand that don't you? Are you also suggesting that PWC would sacrifice it's impartiality, possibly opening itself up to legal action and and the kind of bad publicity that sent Arthur Andersons under, just to help BA pull a fast one on Unite?
As for union reps being unable to attend a meeting, how many have you got? This sounds like 'unable to attend' in the same way they were unable to attend the final pensions meeting, despite everybody else adjourning the meeting for 9 hours and waiting for them at Waterside.
I wonder if Unites accountants are willing to sign a confidentiality agreement with BA before looking through their books, and if the information they receive after signing such an agreement would be prevented from permeating through the rest of the Unite structure.
It sounds like another trail of excuses from BASSA HQ. I'm no accountant but even I can see that their claims of savings are grossly exaggerated. It would be bad news to have that exposed by an independent auditor.
As for union reps being unable to attend a meeting, how many have you got? This sounds like 'unable to attend' in the same way they were unable to attend the final pensions meeting, despite everybody else adjourning the meeting for 9 hours and waiting for them at Waterside.
I wonder if Unites accountants are willing to sign a confidentiality agreement with BA before looking through their books, and if the information they receive after signing such an agreement would be prevented from permeating through the rest of the Unite structure.
It sounds like another trail of excuses from BASSA HQ. I'm no accountant but even I can see that their claims of savings are grossly exaggerated. It would be bad news to have that exposed by an independent auditor.
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Sorry NJR, circumstantially mentioning PWC in the same breath as Enron does not prove a thing unless you're hoping to damage a reputation by an association which doesn't exist. Just because we know of some bad big companies does not mean all big companies are bad.
However, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible for someone from BASSA to sit alongside during the process and ensure fairness if they doubt PWC would be so. Interestingly enough though given the global size and reach of PWC, what would really be in it for them to lie and obfuscate I wonder. Sorry, in the main I still fear the paranoia that permeates BASSA is leading the good to the edge.
MrB
However, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible for someone from BASSA to sit alongside during the process and ensure fairness if they doubt PWC would be so. Interestingly enough though given the global size and reach of PWC, what would really be in it for them to lie and obfuscate I wonder. Sorry, in the main I still fear the paranoia that permeates BASSA is leading the good to the edge.
MrB
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I am BA crew and currently a member of BASSA. However I am very disappointed with the way I am being represented, at no point has BASSA really asked us what we are willing to give-up, compromise on or fight to keep! They did do one pole which basically said if you agree with the company then you're stupid! I believe that there is room for a compromise, ok so we will have to work harder and on a lot of routes this is very possible, maybe not on domestics or band 1's, but on plenty others a reduced crew compliment would be very possible. I also agree that a lot of our rostering agreements are outdated and could be changed without impacting on our lives too much. As for the minority of crew on old contracts, (I'm on the new contract), but have to say I don't blame them for the money they are making, this was the contract BA was offering 20+ years ago when they joined and I think loyalty should be rewarded in some way. As for comparing Pilots and Crew, it's just not possible, we do two totally different jobs with different skill sets. That does mean that I don't believe Pilots should be involved in what we do either! I don't want to see a strike happen and I know that a large number of crew feel the same way and I really hope that both parties can find a solution that we can all agree on.
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There seems a number of crew who belive that our T+C's are out of date and BASSA are to militant. Can I ask why these individuals belong to such a union.
If as individuals you want to lay down and let willi FCUK you silly whilst you brown your noses, why dont you ask BILL if you folks can sign the agreement that he has put forward.
So the rest of us can fight our corner without these so called teachers pets
.
Its a good thing that some of you do not belong to the RMT, if you belong to them and dont tow the line, your life is made misserable. Just like the few crew who crossed the 97 picket line. If in doubt just ask any one who did work during the strike in 97.
Before you guys start slagging off the RMT, just have a look at their working practices,the best in the industry.Because as a membership they stick together. A lesson maybe learnt from them.
If as individuals you want to lay down and let willi FCUK you silly whilst you brown your noses, why dont you ask BILL if you folks can sign the agreement that he has put forward.
So the rest of us can fight our corner without these so called teachers pets
.Its a good thing that some of you do not belong to the RMT, if you belong to them and dont tow the line, your life is made misserable. Just like the few crew who crossed the 97 picket line. If in doubt just ask any one who did work during the strike in 97.
Before you guys start slagging off the RMT, just have a look at their working practices,the best in the industry.Because as a membership they stick together. A lesson maybe learnt from them.