British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[nuigini]

Are there really many crew earning in excess of 1000 pm just for these extra payments.

Not really!

As many have pointed out you need to depend on LR destinations to get that sort of money. A month with two nightstops in the States, a night in the Gulf or Africa and round it off with a curry run to India for a night won't get you anywhere that money...

[plodding along]

So what you are saying is that for many crew this could be a payrise?

So technically for the AVERAGE crew member doing a normal and fair months work they will get the AVERAGE payment as you do now?

If you are one of the ones who always feels they unfairly get too many Africa/India trips then would you not make money out of this?

Would it mean no more dragging yourself in ill to avoid losing a plum trip?

Would it mean no more worries about losing a Hong Kong for your Nan's funeral etc?

Would it mean that if new fleet take all the good routes it wouldn't actually matter?

Then what is the big fear?

Ahh, but what about those people with a friend in scheduling and the senior CSD BASSA reps who only fly one trip a month, amazingly always to a top paying destination, would they possibly lose out?

[welshboy1982]

The travel payment, plus meal allowances is an extremely good deal! I know that I would most definetly have been better off during my time with BA under that system, rather than holding out for a 'good month'. As long as your flying, your guaranteed around £1000 on top of your basic pay, no matter what flights you do, looks like a win-win situation to me. I can't believe some crew are trying to say "but you won't get this payment if your on SEP, leave, off sick, 24hr days etc...".

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't believe i was ever earning any allowances whilst i was on leave or sat at home doing nothing on 24hr. I fail to understand why people would think this is a raw deal, it gives you so much more stability over your income, assuming these quoted amounts are correct that is. I would imagine that most crew probably don't realise they will still be getting meal allowances and certain other payments on top of this.

[Carnage Matey!]

They don't, but then why would the union tell them that? It would undermine support for the strike BASSA is hell bent on achieving.

[Watersidewonker]

Once IF WHEN ETC BA try to offer something you know that behind it is some catch later down the road for them to stitch us up even more just look at the pension deal soon i'll be working till 2065. Don't many of you understand this company does not care about us only the profits to fuel personal wealth for themselves in the form of bonuses. you only have to look at the British goverment to see how they line the pockets with greed the list is endless. Do not trust your manager to tell you the truth they would sell there own grandmother down the road for personal gain so many left but most of the ones left wouldn't find another job outside of BA anyway. To turn away from BASSA would be to let BA do whatever changes it feels like and thats not an option for me.

[nuigini]

A monthly payment would EVEN out the montly pay. Depending on what trips you get, your montly salary can very GREATLY from one month to another. One month you could be earning £1300 and following month £2000 because you have been getting better trips in the latter. Wouldn't it be better to get £1650 each month? This is only an example on how much the payment would. BASSA hasn't even been bothered to find out how much BA is offering for the montly payment. Why? Because they're not interested and keep saying to the members that BA is trying to push them down the ladder.

On current pay and allowance system, we don't get any allowances whatsoever for being sick or doing SEP or any other work related courses. It's PART of the basic salary. The only allowances we get when doing standby is QRS. Even QRS can be very difficult to get. 2 hour, 12 hours and 24 hours aren't worth anything.

Think about how much better we would get paid for doing the chicken tikka runs or down to Cairo which isn't even worth £50 for three days.

[Carnage Matey!]

Now now Wonker, if you want to throw a hysterical, barely literate hissy fit there's a place for that and it's called Crew Forum. Over here we don't inhabit your paranoid world where everybody is out to get you in order to line their pockets with bonusses - especially as nobody in BA is getting a bonus this year. You can run to BASSA as much as you want but you're going to find yourself lonely on the picket line watching your colleagues depart for sunnier shores on board a BA jet.

[Human Factor]

However, do anyone have an idea as to whether management will go to the courts asap or after the ballot?

Depends whether the lawyers think the ballot is lawful or not (answer: probably is). In which case, BA will likely wait for a result and probably go to the courts then - assuming they still think they need to.

Chances are there are still a few weeks to wait.

[PC767]

As I understand matters BASSA are seeking legal advise re breach of contract and may pursue BA to court, and they are ballotting for industrial action. The two are not reliant on each other. As long as a strike has been organised in accordance with legislation anybody can strike over any matter that bothers them. Weak tea? If BASSA are not calling a strike specifically because they believe imposition is a breach of contract, and having read UNITE pages and watched UNITE spokesmen on news channels; this dosen't appear to be the case, then there cannot be a challenge to the legality of the action.

Actually, UNITE/AMICUS/BASSA have not given a specfic reason for a ballot. I suspect all will become clear on the 2nd November.

[Carnage Matey!]

Or perhaps the figures posted contradict BASSAs claims that crew are living in poverty? I mean taking home £1350 per month means a minimum annual haul of £16200. A little more than the £14000 gross BASSA are claiming. Darn it he's gone and let the cat out of the bag!

[nuigini]

Why not add your personal banking details, picture of your partner, photo of your house, and any other personal details you can think of?

Can't you stand that some of the figures and information are accurate?

Answers to your questions.

1. Do you want to make a donation?
2. I thought about it but couldn't find any good photo of him.
3. Some gardening needs to be done before I want to post a picture of my house.
4. Any other personal details? What do you want to know?

It's not relevant whatsoever. I can't really understand what's wrong with posting some numbers or do you want them to be as presented by BASSA?

[Flightrider]

I've not been a frequent contributor to the thread but read the latest BASSA newsletter with a degree of dry amusement today. Beneath the pictures of Willie Walsh mocked up as a second hand car dealer and with red devil eyes, it has a section which says "what's next" to try to spell out what it thinks are the next moves by BA. Let's consider those for a moment:

Hourly pay
Double nights gone
Reduced rest downroute
Reduced days off at base
Fixed links
Flexible rosters
There and back Sharm el Sheikh at LGW
Ranks and promotion to disappear
Extended range flying with no protective agreements
Linked short-haul and long-haul sectors at LGW (precedent set at LCY)

On virtually every single one of those, all I can say is it's about time BA caught up with what the rest of the industry has been doing for years. There and back Sharm? Shock horror. No, actually; charter carriers, GB/easyJet and others have been doing it for years. Fixed links? Terrible. Well, no actually - it means you go into work and fly the flights you're rostered. Linked short and long sectors. Sounds awful. The reality is that they are moaning about doing LCY-Shannon-JFK in a duty day, which is no longer or worse than an LHR-Istanbul-LHR roundtrip.

On reading that list, it simply reminds you just how uncompetitive BA's current T&Cs are. The union's effort to create a wake-up call to arms has only one purpose - to completely deprive BA cabin crew of any sympathy that they might expect to gain from anyone else. Most of the things which they are presenting as the end of the world have been custom and practice through the remainder of the UK airline industry for a very long time.

[nuigini]

LGW-SNN-JFK is no worse than the night duty to DME from LHR.

One of the reasons why BASSA is against the trip is because of the structure of the route: positioning duty, 2 sector day, single sector day and positioning duty. They are against it because LGW-SNN is a short haul sector and SNN-JFK is a long haul sector. It's against their MOA.

No hard feelings but it's amusing that BASSA all of the sudden began to care about LGW after years of negligence. It has nothing to do with care of the LGW crew. It only has to do with BASSA going against BA.

[bealine]

It would undermine support for the strike BASSA is hell bent on achieving.

Now why would BASSA be hell-bent on that, I wonder?

On the last two occasions they have had strikes, most of their membership failed to support them by throwing a "sickie" or a "dependency" or otherwise legitimately taking the day off! That make it very dangerous for the Trades Union reps who could be sacked for incitement if their membership don't have the balls to back their reps up!

[bealine]

Originally Posted by bealine
In the meantime, one of our main reps (himself moderate) is being victimised by management for daring to use the company's email system to keep us up to date with the talks! Can you believe this is happening in modern Britain!
Have a look at EG801 Section A Part 3 on the intranet. Most large companies in modern Britain have similar policies.

I know EG801 backwards (I am a former TU rep). However, British Airways used to bean excellent employer who used to make every facility available to the union representatives to get messages across to the members.

Being accurately informed prevents wildcat actions - indeed, I would go as far as to state that if the union representatives had not been sending regular e-mails to the troops pleading for us to remain calm, and posting ideas on the internal HCS Forum (which is now heavily censored) after the opening of T5, BA would have had a mass walkout to deal with on top of all its other headaches!

(A situation that would have suited Willie Walsh, I think, for then the disastrous opening could have been blamed on the workforce!)

Okay - EG801 has been technically violated b y ALL the TU Reps, not just the one who is being victimised, but their messages are actually helping British Airways. The messages are moderate, telling us that talks are continuing and that every effort to seek a compromise is being sought, including offering our management 80% of the savings they wish to achieve.

Do you see anything that incites industrial unrest in that?

If we don't get regular communication from our TU reps, we may just have to request a "Floor Meeting" - that, of course, would ensure the closure of the check-in operation one Monday morning in the peak, say between 07.00 and 09.00, to convene a meeting with our reps to find out what is going on! It is perfectly legal and above board providing management are given 7 days advance notice.

The operational disruption that could cause would be phenomenal, as I am sure you will appreciate. In any large company, managers who attempt to gag their Trades Union representatives may find it does more harm than good.

Let's hope they have a rethink and let our guy off the hook!

[HiFlyer14]

Welcome to Oldbird and Daisy - it must be annoying (and worrying) the CrewForum mob that many, many people are now voicing their mistrust in the union.

I fully agree Oldbird that BASSA have had more than enough time to plan an excellent negotiation for New Fleet and HAVE ACHIEVED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

If we are not careful now, we will lose what is a very good offer on the table (today's ESS webchat gives further clarification). If we strike we will be left with nothing.

VOTE NO TO STRIKE and then let's get rid of this Union that has past it's sell by date (circa 1970?)

[fly12345]

The Union is only interested in their own survival and sadly by refusing to cooperate and engage with BA eventually it will accelerate its own demise and generate more damaging terms and conditions for their members.

[Carnage Matey!]

Unfortunately for the TUs we are now dealing with a far more hard line and litigious management team. Whilst 'Floor Meetings' were tolerated under previous regimes, and indeed became a common feature amongst the loaders pre-T5 as the TGWU and the GMB fought to demonstrate who could be the most militant, I suspect that any attempt to organise such an action would see BA heading to the courts citing the meeting for what it essentially is: industrial action. Walsh is slowly trying to wean BA employees off the idea that if you don't like something then you can just walk out, and if dialogue fails he's carrying a big stick and isn't afraid to use it. Focussing on a TU rep using company email facilities may do more harm than good in the long run, but BA are focussing on the short to medium term right now because they know that unless the fix the company in that timescale there will be no long run.

[oldbird]

thanks hiflyer

I think a lot of crew feel the same way and just can't be bothered to post. Be a cold day in hell when I vote to strike and I've no intention of doing a sicckie or taking a duvet day if there is a strike and will be working my roster and I hope they're going to take some measures to ensure that those of us who do want to work can do so without interference.

I do feel some sympathy for the hard liners. There's no avoiding the inevitable and they're going to find it hard to adjust. Personally I'd like a mixed roster of long and short haul. Be nice to have some days in the month when you get home at the end of the day. I've got friends at other airlines who do it. They haven't collapsed from exhaustion and enjoy the variety.

[Human Factor]

....and I hope they're going to take some measures to ensure that those of us who do want to work can do so without interference.

If it's anything like the last effort, you'll be looked after.