Virgin - Crew Discussions II
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The strike will not last for long because the company will go under - strike over! We are still a small player, do not have the backing of the French government, certainly do not have 295 flights to cancel and, having allegedly only made £6million last year, probably do not have the cash reserves to fall back on.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Originally Posted by In The Pink
It’s also very amusing to read Virgin Pilots coming on here and advise against a strike. The very same pilots who not so long ago were prepared to shut the airline down over pay at a more difficult time for the industry post 9/11. If like us they were getting knocked back at the bank for an extension to the Cotswolds pile or a bigger pool for their villas in the South of France they’d probably think twice, well meaning as I’m sure they are.
By comparison, you, the cabin crew, have at least two unions who have their own agendas undermining each other and the number of you, cabin crew, who are actually members of either of those two unions is patch too. It's one thing declaring 98% of the members have voted one way or another. However, if only 55% to 65% of the cabin crew are actually in either of the unions then it is a bit more difficult to try and convince the management to that you have such massive backing from your members.
Also, by the time we, the pilots, were talking about possible industrial action, we had 100% confidence in our reps. Now, look at you, the cabin crew. You have voted against the recommendations of your elected reps. That is the same as a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in your elected reps. Now, you are again talking of ignoring their advice of acceptance and you are prepared to go into industrial action?
I'm sorry, but it's a no brainer for anyone except the most militant and judging by some of the very amateurish and knee jerk reaction and comment observed on here, you are doomed to failure if you try and take industrial action at this stage. Until you, the cabin crew, can get your collective acts together and get massive support from your co-workers for representation by one, single union who have the wherewithal to train your negotiators on how to go about working on your behalf and have the necessary resources to provide the back-up necessary, then you would, in my humble opinion, be better off accepting the equivalent of "a bird in the hand" and regrouping for the next round of negotiations which should start in about a years time anyway.
If you are going to use our, the pilots, last negotiated settlement with the company as an example, then you should at least be prepared to take a bit of advice from us. We are not stooges trying to undermine you and we certainly believe that you, the cabin crew, are not paid very well for the work and training you do. You have to remember though, the majority of cabin crew are only with the company for about 18 months. They will probably only have one Christmas whilst working here and if your union reps can't figure out that the company know that an offer of a pay increase now plus backdated pay, just before Christmas is most likely to sway the vote in favour of acceptance.
Of course, we'll all find out how everyone who voted thinks in a weeks time. My gut feeling is that the current offer will probably be accepted. I may be wrong and if I am then I think that you are probably heading for trouble because of your divided union leadership and the fact that you are prepared to take industrial action with no confidence in your leadership.
The only way to win your battles is to plan them exceedingly well with confidence in your "generals" and know exactly what resources both you and your enemy have. In the case of the cabin crew, I fear that most of those objectives are missing. I will watch the outcome with interest from the other side of the flight deck door.
Please remember, we are not against you negotiating for a decent pay deal. You have our support. But, if you don't want our advice then we won't give it. As always, we enjoy your visits on the long flights and are more than happy to act as sounding boards for your opinions.
Good luck, because I think you're going to need it.
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That is the same as a vote of NO CONFIDENCE in your elected reps. Now, you are again talking of ignoring their advice of acceptance and you are prepared to go into industrial action?
He recommended the last offer which even you KO must think was terrible. So to suddenly have confidence in him on this recommendation is not going to happen. I just hope the formation of Unite bringing the unions together will perhaps change us from being a walkover/pushover by offering backdated pay at Christmas (to be taxed) and then everyone in January goes, "oh.. it's a lot less than I expected I would not have voted for it if I had know It would be so little" ..dejavu
The sad thing is we said when this started that the company would drag this out till now just to offer that carrot !
p.s. if the pilots had a postal ballot due in 5 days and Royalmail had a backlog of post to clear would you accept the result of the ballot or expect it to b extended ? Genuine question.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Indeed, but what is one to do half way through negotiations - Boyd is so distanced from the crew in that the union has not even sought to ask what we wanted to achieve out of the negotiations... how does that work....in short it doesn't !
Kasual Observer's take on it is spot on. When the pilots were negotiating, all of us understood the deal in its entirety, and the implications of balloting for a strike. Our reps made sure of that with presentations & very well attended member’s road shows. That is not the case with a huge number of your colleagues.
I think you have done very well to get this far; feelings are strong, but sadly I don't think enough members will strike if this pay deal is rejected. That will, without doubt, give the company the upper hand in all future negotiations.
I too believe you should be paid more money, and I also wish you luck.
PS. Not sure about the postal backlog, not seen anything on the news, although I do see a comment on the Royal Mail website about it. Again this should be something that your union is communicating to you about!!
Last edited by Tags; 28th Oct 2007 at 17:23. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Oh I'm just so bloody confused now. 
Everytime a pilot posts on here I agree with them 110%. Then Scoobs does an equally important post and I find myself nodding with him too. Have changed my mind dozens of times. I really dont care now. How awful is that?
Leaving the Union too as I'm clearly of no use
Everytime a pilot posts on here I agree with them 110%. Then Scoobs does an equally important post and I find myself nodding with him too. Have changed my mind dozens of times. I really dont care now. How awful is that?
Leaving the Union too as I'm clearly of no use
Join Date: Jul 2007
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cc.com is reporting a NO vote but nothing official yet.
Hope this is right as it will be a huge kick up the bum to the company and they might actually realise we are serious about being paid appropriately.
Hope this is right as it will be a huge kick up the bum to the company and they might actually realise we are serious about being paid appropriately.
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Unite to Ballot Virgin Atlantic Cabin Crew for Strike Action
LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM--(Marketwire - Nov. 2, 2007) - Virgin Atlantic cabin crew have voted to reject the company's latest pay offer. Unite the Union has today written to give notice to Virgin Atlantic that the union will ballot its members for strike action.
The staff believe that they have been undervalued for too long by Virgin. Their pay considerably lags behind the pay of cabin crew staff working for British Airways who can earn up to GBP 10K more than Virgin cabin crew flying the same business routes. On holiday routes Virgin cabin crew also earn considerably less than their competitors.
In a clear majority, 60% of Virgin's cabin crew voted to reject the company's latest pay offer. Virgin have offered a two year deal where cabin crew staff would receive 4.8% in the first year (from April 2007) and RPI in the second year (from April 2008).
Unite National Officer, Brian Boyd, says:
"Virgin Atlantic cabin crew believe that their professionalism and dedication has been undervalued for far too long. On the same business routes, cabin crew at British Airways can earn GBP 10K more than the cabin crew at Virgin.
"Unite is calling upon Virgin Atlantic to deliver a long term solution to this problem. It has gone on for too long and our members have had enough. Unite has written to the company today to inform them that the union will ballot its members for strike action within the next two weeks."
Unite has 3200 members at Virgin Atlantic.
LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM--(Marketwire - Nov. 2, 2007) - Virgin Atlantic cabin crew have voted to reject the company's latest pay offer. Unite the Union has today written to give notice to Virgin Atlantic that the union will ballot its members for strike action.
The staff believe that they have been undervalued for too long by Virgin. Their pay considerably lags behind the pay of cabin crew staff working for British Airways who can earn up to GBP 10K more than Virgin cabin crew flying the same business routes. On holiday routes Virgin cabin crew also earn considerably less than their competitors.
In a clear majority, 60% of Virgin's cabin crew voted to reject the company's latest pay offer. Virgin have offered a two year deal where cabin crew staff would receive 4.8% in the first year (from April 2007) and RPI in the second year (from April 2008).
Unite National Officer, Brian Boyd, says:
"Virgin Atlantic cabin crew believe that their professionalism and dedication has been undervalued for far too long. On the same business routes, cabin crew at British Airways can earn GBP 10K more than the cabin crew at Virgin.
"Unite is calling upon Virgin Atlantic to deliver a long term solution to this problem. It has gone on for too long and our members have had enough. Unite has written to the company today to inform them that the union will ballot its members for strike action within the next two weeks."
Unite has 3200 members at Virgin Atlantic.
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we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who voted yes this time round to do the same.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who voted yes this time round to do the same.
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I'm not sure how likely it is, but this could go back to the table, which I am hoping will happen as a strike would be terrible news. I also dont have faith that the majority will vote to strike, and this will be where we fall. The company can then authorise the 2% and nothing else as they do not need to negotiate under duress. Some will be surprised to learn that there are laws protecting them too.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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VIRGIN CSS - I will be joining you in offering my services and days off etc.
I think it is a real shame it has come to this. It appears that most voted on the basis of being told to vote NO by colleagues. I hope they realise the path they are now forcing Crew down and its implications.
I think it is a real shame it has come to this. It appears that most voted on the basis of being told to vote NO by colleagues. I hope they realise the path they are now forcing Crew down and its implications.
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I voted yes to this one too. Only because i was afraid like i said in many previous posts that the percentage of crew would vote no for the deal then no for strike meaning that all this hassle would have been a pointless exercise. I dont want to strike but i dont want 2% either which it will come down to. At this point we all need to stick together more than ever surely.
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Poker
If there is a Yes vote to Strike, the % offered may be irrelevant to many - ie those who lose jobs due to serious downsizing. The company cannot afford to strike, and I do not mean that just in monetary terms.
If it does go to strike, I hope the company does come back with a 2% offer. Those who voted no in the hope of getting more money, without thought to actually going on strike deserve the minimum.
And before anyone starts with the moronic claims that I must office based because I am on the companys side, I am actually a CSS.
If there is a Yes vote to Strike, the % offered may be irrelevant to many - ie those who lose jobs due to serious downsizing. The company cannot afford to strike, and I do not mean that just in monetary terms.
If it does go to strike, I hope the company does come back with a 2% offer. Those who voted no in the hope of getting more money, without thought to actually going on strike deserve the minimum.
And before anyone starts with the moronic claims that I must office based because I am on the companys side, I am actually a CSS.
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Lets not forget that it might not just be Cabin Crew who may loose jobs over this, there are many other departments that will suffer. I mirror Jcdcon's thoughts. Honnestly I think the company is quite at rights to offer what it wishes now - if there are staffing cuts, there most certainly won't be offering even 2% to those that remain, lets go for 0% or even a pay cut - but hey at least you will have your jobs!
I think Cabin Crew have seriously isolated themselves from the rest of the company in this decision - I know I definately won't be going out my way to help Crew.
I'm not tarring you all with the same brush mind you - I applaud the comments from Virgin CSS and Jcdcon in giving up their time to help in the event of a strike. I work with a lot of people like you who regularly go that extra bit to ensure things run a bit smoother, and not for renumeration - afterall I was told when I started what the salary was - if i wanted more I would have moved on.
Still that might be the case now....
FB
I think Cabin Crew have seriously isolated themselves from the rest of the company in this decision - I know I definately won't be going out my way to help Crew.
I'm not tarring you all with the same brush mind you - I applaud the comments from Virgin CSS and Jcdcon in giving up their time to help in the event of a strike. I work with a lot of people like you who regularly go that extra bit to ensure things run a bit smoother, and not for renumeration - afterall I was told when I started what the salary was - if i wanted more I would have moved on.
Still that might be the case now....
FB
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Virgin CSS - nice to see you back again
It's very spooky or you have an evil twin that posts on cc.com in exactly the same size, color and uncommon Verdana font and 4 minutes earlier and exactly the same text ... perhaps you were seperated at birth and there will be a tearful reunion on a flight soon - Imagine the odds of that that you both work for the same company and one of you is a CSS and the other an FSM !!!
Virgin CSS post
Virgin FSM post on cc.com
Unfortunately I stand by my previous observations with regard to your posts - sorry !
It's very spooky or you have an evil twin that posts on cc.com in exactly the same size, color and uncommon Verdana font and 4 minutes earlier and exactly the same text ... perhaps you were seperated at birth and there will be a tearful reunion on a flight soon - Imagine the odds of that that you both work for the same company and one of you is a CSS and the other an FSM !!!
Virgin CSS post
we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who voted yes this time round to do the same.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who voted yes this time round to do the same.
we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who votes yes this time round to do the same.
Or I hope that Virgin request a reballot due to the post backlog.
I think the 60% that voted no are fools. They have not only shot themselves in the foot but also every other person who works for Virgin and also our customers.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who votes yes this time round to do the same.
Or I hope that Virgin request a reballot due to the post backlog.
I think the 60% that voted no are fools. They have not only shot themselves in the foot but also every other person who works for Virgin and also our customers.
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Dear dollies
Well done to all of you that voted No..! around 2,000 of you...! WOW..! 
WE must all stand together now and follow this through and send a clear message to the management that we will not be used anymore.
Please do not worry about the last few posts......
Read your rights if we do strike under E.U. law and this info should be available soon.
We, you, me deserve more money...........That's why we joined the union in the first place.
Again Well done,
Take care Dollies..x
WE must all stand together now and follow this through and send a clear message to the management that we will not be used anymore.
Please do not worry about the last few posts......
Read your rights if we do strike under E.U. law and this info should be available soon.
We, you, me deserve more money...........That's why we joined the union in the first place.
Again Well done,
Take care Dollies..x
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Yes Indeed Dolly - the memo on ifly talks about communications from Legal & HR... more scare talk. They dont seem very happy with Mr Boyd going to the press !!
So, moving forward I'm sure everyone will receive information regarding their rights from the union. As has been said the key is to stick together.
Bon Weekend.
So, moving forward I'm sure everyone will receive information regarding their rights from the union. As has been said the key is to stick together.
Bon Weekend.
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The fact is that the result is a 'NO'.
Regardless of what I voted in this ballot, I now have a choice of 2 options...
1) Vote 'NO' to strike action, and recieve either the original 2% rise, or even less, or even nothing at all.
2) Vote 'YES' to strike action and possibly get a larger than 4.8% rise.
Its a no brainer. Regardless of my votes in previous ballots, its obvious that its now imperative to vote YES to strike action, or loose it all.
The FSM/CSS who is unsure of their identity, and people who brand nearly 3000 union members fools are making rather bold statements given that a clear majority voted no. Resorting to name calling and useless comments like that is rather juvenile, not something we should be resorting to, and smacks of desperation and a lack of clarity or ability to form an argument.
Regardless of what I voted in this ballot, I now have a choice of 2 options...
1) Vote 'NO' to strike action, and recieve either the original 2% rise, or even less, or even nothing at all.
2) Vote 'YES' to strike action and possibly get a larger than 4.8% rise.
Its a no brainer. Regardless of my votes in previous ballots, its obvious that its now imperative to vote YES to strike action, or loose it all.
The FSM/CSS who is unsure of their identity, and people who brand nearly 3000 union members fools are making rather bold statements given that a clear majority voted no. Resorting to name calling and useless comments like that is rather juvenile, not something we should be resorting to, and smacks of desperation and a lack of clarity or ability to form an argument.
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Once again well done to all the crew who voted NO . I think the management really thought that this one would go through with their sneaky meetings with FSM's and CSS's. This whole scenario could have been avoided along time ago but unfortunatly they just put more fuel on the fire with the way they decided to deal with the negotiations. The problem we face now is that the company will try to scare us with what will happen if we do strike and I think a lot of crew will be put off by this. More than ever we need to stick together.
. I think the management really thought that this one would go through with their sneaky meetings with FSM's and CSS's. This whole scenario could have been avoided along time ago but unfortunatly they just put more fuel on the fire with the way they decided to deal with the negotiations. The problem we face now is that the company will try to scare us with what will happen if we do strike and I think a lot of crew will be put off by this. More than ever we need to stick together.