Virgin - Crew Discussions II
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So, if 69% returned the ballots, that would imply it was less than 42% who voted no?
This gives us an interesting scenario for the strike ballot, because whilst some have been worried that 11% who voted no this time may vote no to a strike, actually the bigger issue is that the 31% who didn't vote at all last time will vote no to actively avoid a strike.
Look at it this way; Out of the total union membership:
41.4% voted no
27.6% voted yes
31% didn't vote
The mandate for industrial action doesn't look so strong. The picture looks even more fragmented when considering 30% of the cabin crew workforce aren't in the union, then the breakdown is this:
28.98% voted no
19.32% voted yes
51.7% didn't vote, or couldn't vote
This is bad news whichever way you look at it, and the spin the union is putting on it is only aggravating management and putting fear and uncertainty in the minds of customers.
This gives us an interesting scenario for the strike ballot, because whilst some have been worried that 11% who voted no this time may vote no to a strike, actually the bigger issue is that the 31% who didn't vote at all last time will vote no to actively avoid a strike.
Look at it this way; Out of the total union membership:
41.4% voted no
27.6% voted yes
31% didn't vote
The mandate for industrial action doesn't look so strong. The picture looks even more fragmented when considering 30% of the cabin crew workforce aren't in the union, then the breakdown is this:
28.98% voted no
19.32% voted yes
51.7% didn't vote, or couldn't vote
This is bad news whichever way you look at it, and the spin the union is putting on it is only aggravating management and putting fear and uncertainty in the minds of customers.
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I voted for the previous pay deal and have to say I am frustrated at having been put in this position, to say the least. For once I actually believed that the company were going to sort out the FSM/CSS pay issue, although their promises were vague.
However, we seem to have boxed ourselves into a corner and now there is no choice but to vote for a strike. To do anything less shows weakness in our position and would allow the company to really do as they please. A no to strike is the worst of all positions.
We have been asked to put up or shut up. With a heavy heart we now need to put up - all of us.
However, we seem to have boxed ourselves into a corner and now there is no choice but to vote for a strike. To do anything less shows weakness in our position and would allow the company to really do as they please. A no to strike is the worst of all positions.
We have been asked to put up or shut up. With a heavy heart we now need to put up - all of us.
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HI
I agree with Alfamatt this is going to be a tough ride.
Before attending the forum with management I was on the fence as 4.8 % is pretty good. I felt a bit brain washed by the management and issues that we talk about crew down, variable manning etc were not really addressed and brushed to one side. I thought that's why the management wanted us there to understand what we really were unhappy about but I was disappointed.
My last two flights went crew down while crew in different ranks were still on standby in check in...?
Had a delay inbound of just under 5 hours to be told I will only get £10..?
"Five hours of my time for £10 thats £2 per hour isn't that under the minimum wage".
So if I had said yes to the pay deal I'm accepting the above conditions..?
My opinion is that there is more money in the pot and the company will frighten us with job losses etc. But now that recruitment has now stopped who is there to make redundant when everything runs on a shoe string and so many cut backs have been made.
It's all about profits these days that's why so many strikes have taken place over the world.
The company can come in at the last minute just before a strike with a better pay deal. A 60% NO vote is sending a clear message to the management that there is a problem.
We have been given a voice and a vote by having a union which sends a clear message to rest of the company and the outside world that enough is enough. The company have put us in this position and I feel it sad that this is the only way that our voices can be heard.
I'm not willing to put up with these conditions anymore so I'm standing firm and tight. This attitude from the management is if you don't like it then leave...Wrong...I've put years into this company and all I'm asking for is to be respected with a decent pay package.
Regards,
Virgin Dolly
Before attending the forum with management I was on the fence as 4.8 % is pretty good. I felt a bit brain washed by the management and issues that we talk about crew down, variable manning etc were not really addressed and brushed to one side. I thought that's why the management wanted us there to understand what we really were unhappy about but I was disappointed.
My last two flights went crew down while crew in different ranks were still on standby in check in...?
Had a delay inbound of just under 5 hours to be told I will only get £10..?
"Five hours of my time for £10 thats £2 per hour isn't that under the minimum wage".
So if I had said yes to the pay deal I'm accepting the above conditions..?
My opinion is that there is more money in the pot and the company will frighten us with job losses etc. But now that recruitment has now stopped who is there to make redundant when everything runs on a shoe string and so many cut backs have been made.
It's all about profits these days that's why so many strikes have taken place over the world.
The company can come in at the last minute just before a strike with a better pay deal. A 60% NO vote is sending a clear message to the management that there is a problem.
We have been given a voice and a vote by having a union which sends a clear message to rest of the company and the outside world that enough is enough. The company have put us in this position and I feel it sad that this is the only way that our voices can be heard.
I'm not willing to put up with these conditions anymore so I'm standing firm and tight. This attitude from the management is if you don't like it then leave...Wrong...I've put years into this company and all I'm asking for is to be respected with a decent pay package.
Regards,
Virgin Dolly
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I, for one, don't believe there is any more money in the pot - or even if there is, management are not going to go any further. It would make their position untenable going into future pay discussions.
The 60% isn't a "clear message" when that's actually less than 30% of the cabin crew in total.
The 60% isn't a "clear message" when that's actually less than 30% of the cabin crew in total.
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Virgin Dolly
Don't think you seem to realise how you get paid... 5 hours delay for £10 under the minimum wage?.
Remember this is on top of your normal wages for being at work that day, you are paid a wage to do a certain number of contractual hours each year, be it 750, be it 900, be it whatever. Divide your duty hours by what your basic salary is, that is your hourly rate. This delay money is on top of that. Don't argue about time down route as well, your allowances are for your time there, and although it may not be that high per hour when you work it out, remember, this unlike your normal wages, is tax free.
This is one thing that really really infuriates me about crew, its been said by others too, DO YOUR SUMS and KNOW YOUR FACTS before making silly winging statements. Crew down payments, commission from sales, and all those discounts you get down route for your crew social club are all bonus'. Before you pick holes in me, I live with VS crew and all this has been explained to me.
An interesting point that has come up in engineering many a time recently is if you are really that hard up, why do you all drive relatively new cars? There wasn't a single old banger in the Car Park this morning, lots of 206 convertibles all with their nice VS stickers hanging in the windows.
Don't think you seem to realise how you get paid... 5 hours delay for £10 under the minimum wage?.
Remember this is on top of your normal wages for being at work that day, you are paid a wage to do a certain number of contractual hours each year, be it 750, be it 900, be it whatever. Divide your duty hours by what your basic salary is, that is your hourly rate. This delay money is on top of that. Don't argue about time down route as well, your allowances are for your time there, and although it may not be that high per hour when you work it out, remember, this unlike your normal wages, is tax free.
This is one thing that really really infuriates me about crew, its been said by others too, DO YOUR SUMS and KNOW YOUR FACTS before making silly winging statements. Crew down payments, commission from sales, and all those discounts you get down route for your crew social club are all bonus'. Before you pick holes in me, I live with VS crew and all this has been explained to me.
An interesting point that has come up in engineering many a time recently is if you are really that hard up, why do you all drive relatively new cars? There wasn't a single old banger in the Car Park this morning, lots of 206 convertibles all with their nice VS stickers hanging in the windows.
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Fournier boy, please do not tarnish us all with the same brush. There are many crew out there that do not have 'new' cars and so what if they do, its down to each personal circumstances!
As for crew down, if the company roster flights with 18 crew then they should ensure 18 crew are on that flight. Why should our pax and the other crew suffer on that flight?
Also as for commission, this is a standard for any sales related job, so really it is not a bonus. The company want us to sell, they have to give us an incentive. Its the same for travel agents. Virgin want them to sell their seats so they have to give them an incentive to do it.
As for crew down, if the company roster flights with 18 crew then they should ensure 18 crew are on that flight. Why should our pax and the other crew suffer on that flight?
Also as for commission, this is a standard for any sales related job, so really it is not a bonus. The company want us to sell, they have to give us an incentive. Its the same for travel agents. Virgin want them to sell their seats so they have to give them an incentive to do it.
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Dear all,
Hi,
Thought I would just update you all on the bigger picture,
Quote; Airline Industry news,
Virgin Atlantic Airways has had continued rise in growth in September with 14.9% a 1.1% rise which now has 12.5% of the market.
Found on the B.A. website.....!
I don't think we are going to downsize to all of those who are worried and this is just making the can of worms bigger ............?
Well Done to all of the VAA team on this great success .....but why has this not gone on I-fly..?
Regards,
Virgin Dolly
Thought I would just update you all on the bigger picture,
Quote; Airline Industry news,
Virgin Atlantic Airways has had continued rise in growth in September with 14.9% a 1.1% rise which now has 12.5% of the market.
Found on the B.A. website.....!
I don't think we are going to downsize to all of those who are worried and this is just making the can of worms bigger ............?
Well Done to all of the VAA team on this great success .....but why has this not gone on I-fly..?
Regards,
Virgin Dolly
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With Regards to 4.8% offer staying on the table, look at it from the other side if it was pulled would more or less people vote to strike - I believe more, so wouldn't be smart of the company to pull the offer.
I see lots of other departments getting involved calling us selfish, I see the one that isn't calling us selfish is the flight crew, who are the other unionised department who have been down this road (though times were different and the situation different).
Selfish - why because we are tying to improve our working conditions - the negotiations have failed so the remaining tool is now being used as the flight crew did a few years back. I suppose it is selfish in that it's my bills, my mortgage and my years of seniority that I shouldn't have to give up to go and work for the likes of BA to get a fair package.
All the sympathy in the world for other departments wont pay my bills.
Other departments in virgin saying we are greedy because we had 2x what they got. Rest assured the flight crew will get min RPI, so does that make them selfish too, were they selfish to nearly strike a few years ago ? no they were proactive and did something about their T&C's so does that not perhaps show that a unionised workforce works. You can throw as much blame as you like at the cabin crew for striking, could I suggest that a portion of that blame go in the managements direction also who have failed to further negotiate, we are still willing to go to the table.
As for the numbers in the vote, doesn't matter if only 10 people returned it, that's democracy. I suggest those not happy at work in a non union work force join one to stop yourselves being exploited.
I see lots of other departments getting involved calling us selfish, I see the one that isn't calling us selfish is the flight crew, who are the other unionised department who have been down this road (though times were different and the situation different).
Selfish - why because we are tying to improve our working conditions - the negotiations have failed so the remaining tool is now being used as the flight crew did a few years back. I suppose it is selfish in that it's my bills, my mortgage and my years of seniority that I shouldn't have to give up to go and work for the likes of BA to get a fair package.
All the sympathy in the world for other departments wont pay my bills.
Other departments in virgin saying we are greedy because we had 2x what they got. Rest assured the flight crew will get min RPI, so does that make them selfish too, were they selfish to nearly strike a few years ago ? no they were proactive and did something about their T&C's so does that not perhaps show that a unionised workforce works. You can throw as much blame as you like at the cabin crew for striking, could I suggest that a portion of that blame go in the managements direction also who have failed to further negotiate, we are still willing to go to the table.
As for the numbers in the vote, doesn't matter if only 10 people returned it, that's democracy. I suggest those not happy at work in a non union work force join one to stop yourselves being exploited.
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I think the best that can be hoped for, is that the company implement this offer regardless of the ballot result, and hopefully the few who are still talking about industrial action start to realise the futility of a strike.
EVEN THOUGH 60% VOTED NO, THAT 60% OF VOTERS IS A MINORITY OF THE WHOLE CABIN CREW ESTABLISHMENT. THERE IS NO STRENGTH IN THIS POSITION, YOUR UNION COULD NOW EASILY BE DESTROYED FROM WITHIN. DON'T LET IT HAPPEN. A STRIKE NOW, WILL NOT GET WHAT IS WANTED.
A strike now, will destroy the Cabin Crew union in Virgin, and destroy any hope of achieving something meaningful in the future. If you fail to see this and continue down a path of obvious self destruction via pointless industrial action the image of the all trade unions will be damaged. Trade unions have come a long way since the seventies, and a lot of people have worked very hard to achieve their present standing, so don't send them back, NO-ONE WILL THANK YOU. And certainly not the pilots.
EVEN THOUGH 60% VOTED NO, THAT 60% OF VOTERS IS A MINORITY OF THE WHOLE CABIN CREW ESTABLISHMENT. THERE IS NO STRENGTH IN THIS POSITION, YOUR UNION COULD NOW EASILY BE DESTROYED FROM WITHIN. DON'T LET IT HAPPEN. A STRIKE NOW, WILL NOT GET WHAT IS WANTED.
A strike now, will destroy the Cabin Crew union in Virgin, and destroy any hope of achieving something meaningful in the future. If you fail to see this and continue down a path of obvious self destruction via pointless industrial action the image of the all trade unions will be damaged. Trade unions have come a long way since the seventies, and a lot of people have worked very hard to achieve their present standing, so don't send them back, NO-ONE WILL THANK YOU. And certainly not the pilots.
Last edited by tin tin; 3rd Nov 2007 at 17:39.
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I see lots of other departments getting involved calling us selfish, I see the one that isn't calling us selfish is the flight crew, who are the other unionised department who have been down this road (though times were different and the situation different).
Selfish - why because we are tying to improve our working conditions - the negotiations have failed so the remaining tool is now being used as the flight crew did a few years back. I suppose it is selfish in that it's my bills, my mortgage and my years of seniority that I shouldn't have to give up to go and work for the likes of BA to get a fair package.
If you read my previous post you will see that your pay rates are pretty close to a technician in engineering. What makes you worth more than them? Is what you do for the airline worth more? Why should you get a bigger payrise. Is flying round the world dealing with passengers worth than getting soaked changing wheels or stripping toilets down or any of the 100's of other filthy jobs we have to do.
All the sympathy in the world for other departments won’t pay my bills.
Could I suggest that a portion of that blame go in the managements direction also who have failed to further negotiate, we are still willing to go to the table.
As for the numbers in the vote, doesn't matter if only 10 people returned it, that's democracy. I suggest those not happy at work in a non union work force join one to stop yourselves being exploited.
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Tom, good to see such supportive comments!!!
Your right, you are in for a rough ride. Most other departments do not support you. Simple truth is that you have turned down a pay offer that is over twice what UK staff got and just accepted. Who's the fools then? You have to admit that makes you look very selfish. Very selfish, getting paid what percentage of your salary? In general nobody in VS is fantastically paid. Those that don't like that in the long run move on, we all have that option. Funny how many people come back though, I can think of 6 straight off.
It does seem to me that there is a lot of "sheep" about as well. If you check one of my earlier posts you will see I spoke to one CC who couldn't even explain the offer that had been made and was going to vote no because everyone else was. Pretty pathetic really. And believing the company hype of getting the back pay before Xmas isn't pathetic? Route allowances: As I said earlier as well, your allowances are far better than anything that we get when on company business. Another point that you will get no support on. Get your union to sort it out instead of getting bitter & twistedCrew down: Every flight I have departed this week has had crew call in sick for. Every time I have worked Christmas (about 5 in the past 11) or New Year ( 8 in 11) crew have called in sick. Nobody in my department who was rostered to work called in sick. We just get on with it. The sickness only exacerbates a situation, which I actually think you may have a point on. More horse poop, once heard of an engineer that regurlarly went sick just to get Friday night off (we all over hear people talking on the aircraft)There is also a lot of external pressures building at the momment. Possible recesession, oil prices rising, open skies. It seems that a lot of people in other departments realise this, not exactly the ideal time to take action is it? First sensible thing you've said, so if money is so tight why squander it on The Base or flying The Spice Girls around the world??
One other story; I was in the galley working the other day. CC were chatting and one said "weren't those Strawberry Daquieries great last night" and went on to talk about a particular bar. Wish I could afford to go out and drink cocktails in that place. Managed to bite my lip and walk away before getting into a "discussion" on how hard up CC supposedly are. So the girls went out for a few drinks, so what should they do on an evening stay in & paint their nails?? For many downroute IS their life & when they do their socialising
Shame really as I get on very well with some crew. Hope things don't progress to the point where our assistance in those little things that makes your life easier is withdrawn due to bad feeling. Easy, what if the crew don't bother with you & the family when enjoying your J upgrades??
Think long. Think hard. This time it is not just about "you". A bit like all the engineers did a few years ago when upset about the payment for the A346, are you having a touch of memory failure??
Your right, you are in for a rough ride. Most other departments do not support you. Simple truth is that you have turned down a pay offer that is over twice what UK staff got and just accepted. Who's the fools then? You have to admit that makes you look very selfish. Very selfish, getting paid what percentage of your salary? In general nobody in VS is fantastically paid. Those that don't like that in the long run move on, we all have that option. Funny how many people come back though, I can think of 6 straight off.
It does seem to me that there is a lot of "sheep" about as well. If you check one of my earlier posts you will see I spoke to one CC who couldn't even explain the offer that had been made and was going to vote no because everyone else was. Pretty pathetic really. And believing the company hype of getting the back pay before Xmas isn't pathetic? Route allowances: As I said earlier as well, your allowances are far better than anything that we get when on company business. Another point that you will get no support on. Get your union to sort it out instead of getting bitter & twistedCrew down: Every flight I have departed this week has had crew call in sick for. Every time I have worked Christmas (about 5 in the past 11) or New Year ( 8 in 11) crew have called in sick. Nobody in my department who was rostered to work called in sick. We just get on with it. The sickness only exacerbates a situation, which I actually think you may have a point on. More horse poop, once heard of an engineer that regurlarly went sick just to get Friday night off (we all over hear people talking on the aircraft)There is also a lot of external pressures building at the momment. Possible recesession, oil prices rising, open skies. It seems that a lot of people in other departments realise this, not exactly the ideal time to take action is it? First sensible thing you've said, so if money is so tight why squander it on The Base or flying The Spice Girls around the world??
One other story; I was in the galley working the other day. CC were chatting and one said "weren't those Strawberry Daquieries great last night" and went on to talk about a particular bar. Wish I could afford to go out and drink cocktails in that place. Managed to bite my lip and walk away before getting into a "discussion" on how hard up CC supposedly are. So the girls went out for a few drinks, so what should they do on an evening stay in & paint their nails?? For many downroute IS their life & when they do their socialising
Shame really as I get on very well with some crew. Hope things don't progress to the point where our assistance in those little things that makes your life easier is withdrawn due to bad feeling. Easy, what if the crew don't bother with you & the family when enjoying your J upgrades??
Think long. Think hard. This time it is not just about "you". A bit like all the engineers did a few years ago when upset about the payment for the A346, are you having a touch of memory failure??
Tom,
I would keep your thoughts to yourself . You do yourself & colleagues a disservice by going down the line of "them and us"! BTW I think your assistance is the least you could do for all the breakfasts the crews left you guys!
I would keep your thoughts to yourself . You do yourself & colleagues a disservice by going down the line of "them and us"! BTW I think your assistance is the least you could do for all the breakfasts the crews left you guys!
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Oh dear. Clearly the damage is done. Bridges with the SLF have been burnt, and now those with ground crew are aflame.
The company simply can't afford a strike, either in direct costs or longterm goodwill. Voting for it is short-sighted, and will cost many jobs - or worse still, the whole thing will collapse.
The company simply can't afford a strike, either in direct costs or longterm goodwill. Voting for it is short-sighted, and will cost many jobs - or worse still, the whole thing will collapse.
VS_LHR. First point the company can afford it. As they can afford to pay the groundstaff a decent wage. They are past masters at pleading poverty to suit their situation. Second point please don't take my post as cabin crew against groundstaff. I am not CC & left VS a few years ago after 10 years service. Sadly I saw the way the company was going. VS need a good clearout of the deadwood in management & get back to the way they were which was a dynamic "lean" company snapping at the heels of the establishment. Unfortunately they have become the very company they were trying to beat decades ago. Overbloated, overstaffed and overmanaged!
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Please read my post again. I said the company can't afford a strike, which it clearly can't for the reasons I posted.
My point regarding pitching crew vs other staff was more aimed at Raffles and others who are drawing lines in the sand. That damage is going to be far reaching.
My point regarding pitching crew vs other staff was more aimed at Raffles and others who are drawing lines in the sand. That damage is going to be far reaching.
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Stike action
Does no one on here realise what damage a stike will do to this company?
The management are not going to come back with another offer. That is clear as they have left the 4.8% on the table for the duration of the next ballot. If they were going back round the table then they would not leave this offer on the table. They would pull it.
It has been mentioned that all this talk of job losses is just scare mongering and that this won't happen. Trust me, as an FSM with 19 years service and someone who has been through this before, it will happen.
New routes that the company have recently started would be pulled. There are two that have launched the past week, with others that are no doing as good as they could be, so could be pulled. They pulled routes after 9-11 as they had too. They will do it again.
Each aircraft that operates a daily route requires around 90 crew. This takes into account a daily service, sickness, leave etc. Times this by the a amount of routes pulled (4) and you are left with nearly 400 job losses in all ranks.
Any new route takes 2-3 years to make money on so pulling ones that have just started doesn't cost the company that much.
Remember, age legislation now doesn't allow any company to conduct redundancies on a 'last in first out' procedure. Is has to be done on performance. This is now the law and seniority within rank counts for nothing when a company now goes into a redundancy situation.
We should take the 4.8% that is still on offer, elect a new union that can fight for what we want and listen to us and then go into the next pay talks in a much stronger position.
We will win nothing this way.
Each day we stike the pay offer becomes less and less. Does anyone out there really think that by going on stirke we will enhance out offer? if so I am sorry to say you are living in the clouds, not just working in them.
We all want more but this road we are now on is a sure way to ensure that we and many others in the company get less.
Good luck to all of you. I for one will not be voting for stike action. It's a company I love and have given a lot too. I don't want to see another 9-11 when in a few years we could be so much stonger and have a union we believe in.
The management are not going to come back with another offer. That is clear as they have left the 4.8% on the table for the duration of the next ballot. If they were going back round the table then they would not leave this offer on the table. They would pull it.
It has been mentioned that all this talk of job losses is just scare mongering and that this won't happen. Trust me, as an FSM with 19 years service and someone who has been through this before, it will happen.
New routes that the company have recently started would be pulled. There are two that have launched the past week, with others that are no doing as good as they could be, so could be pulled. They pulled routes after 9-11 as they had too. They will do it again.
Each aircraft that operates a daily route requires around 90 crew. This takes into account a daily service, sickness, leave etc. Times this by the a amount of routes pulled (4) and you are left with nearly 400 job losses in all ranks.
Any new route takes 2-3 years to make money on so pulling ones that have just started doesn't cost the company that much.
Remember, age legislation now doesn't allow any company to conduct redundancies on a 'last in first out' procedure. Is has to be done on performance. This is now the law and seniority within rank counts for nothing when a company now goes into a redundancy situation.
We should take the 4.8% that is still on offer, elect a new union that can fight for what we want and listen to us and then go into the next pay talks in a much stronger position.
We will win nothing this way.
Each day we stike the pay offer becomes less and less. Does anyone out there really think that by going on stirke we will enhance out offer? if so I am sorry to say you are living in the clouds, not just working in them.
We all want more but this road we are now on is a sure way to ensure that we and many others in the company get less.
Good luck to all of you. I for one will not be voting for stike action. It's a company I love and have given a lot too. I don't want to see another 9-11 when in a few years we could be so much stonger and have a union we believe in.
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Who says Vs simply cant survive is its cabin crew go on strike? The VS management team, thats who. If they push through this 4.8% deal, then they will be amply rewarded. 4.8% on a 5hite wage is just a little bit more of 5hite, say £500 a year more take home. It is hardly film star wages. If the ground staff feel hard done by, get a union, get organised and get more money.
Dicky don't give two monkeys about his human resource as long as that resource is filling up his bank account. The man is an entrepreneur who can see an opportunity and exploit it. Exploit him. The battles he had back in the 80's against Mr King and BA where great. His brand took on the establishment and won. But it was his people, not resource, that helped him do that. Maybe, the Virgin brand needs to have a little step back and realise this.
When I see that BMW ramp car driving around LGW, I chuckle. It may be a managers company car, BUT, if you are in negotiations with your employees about pay, don't take the pi55. If you were that hard done by as a business, an 01 plate Focus would do.
You cannot use lifestyle as an argument towards the renumeration package. Yeah, staff travel is good and sitting on a beach is nice, but pay is pay.
The VS management team are doing their job. Don't strike or we are all out of a job. This just is not true.
Anyway, the best of luck in your choice. The debate on this thread has been an enjoyable read and many well balanced points have been voiced.
Dicky don't give two monkeys about his human resource as long as that resource is filling up his bank account. The man is an entrepreneur who can see an opportunity and exploit it. Exploit him. The battles he had back in the 80's against Mr King and BA where great. His brand took on the establishment and won. But it was his people, not resource, that helped him do that. Maybe, the Virgin brand needs to have a little step back and realise this.
When I see that BMW ramp car driving around LGW, I chuckle. It may be a managers company car, BUT, if you are in negotiations with your employees about pay, don't take the pi55. If you were that hard done by as a business, an 01 plate Focus would do.
You cannot use lifestyle as an argument towards the renumeration package. Yeah, staff travel is good and sitting on a beach is nice, but pay is pay.
The VS management team are doing their job. Don't strike or we are all out of a job. This just is not true.
Anyway, the best of luck in your choice. The debate on this thread has been an enjoyable read and many well balanced points have been voiced.
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If you think Virgin will come out of any strike action unscathed, you are seriously deluded. The mere hint of a ballot on striking has sent the frequent flyers on V-Flyer into a tail-spin - and because this is now all over the media, you can be sure as eggs is eggs the same thoughts are going through the minds of thousands of pax who are thinking 'don't screw up the trip I've been saving for all year'. Corporate travel planners will be calm about the whole thing, though. They'll simply switch their booking to BA 'just in case'. Then, if the strike ballot comes back a 'yes' as you so gleefully predict, the situation will be the same, only magnified by ten.
Take the average load today, and reduce it by a conservative 10% for the fear and uncertainty of a strike. For simplicity's sake, call it 30 passengers. What's the average turnover on those 30 seats across the three cabins? Well, let's keep it simple and say they were all in Y, and they were a very reasonable £300 a piece. That's £9K you've lost on that flight. Multiply that over 80 flights a day. £720K. Then let's look at the profit reported last year. It was a "record" according to the press releases, of £41.6m. Conservatively, the impact of a threatened or real strike would have an impact on the airline for at least 3 months - and that would be working hard to get back pax who deserted, or even directly effected by industrial action. That 10% downturn for just 3 months would cost the company £64.8m in turnover - so on last year's figures, they're already £23m in the red - and that's using very conservative figures which don't account for an actual strike or the long-term loss of corporate accounts. How many jobs would need to be cut just to break even?
Don't be fooled, this strike - and even just the possibility of it - is going to cost the company dear, and unless it can be nipped in the bud pretty damn quick, there will have to be a lot of cutbacks to stay afloat.
You are offering no evidence that the company can afford this, but you are being very cavalier with the livelihoods of others.
You seem to forget, when 'Dicky' won the dirty tricks court case, he gave the proceeds to the staff.
Take the average load today, and reduce it by a conservative 10% for the fear and uncertainty of a strike. For simplicity's sake, call it 30 passengers. What's the average turnover on those 30 seats across the three cabins? Well, let's keep it simple and say they were all in Y, and they were a very reasonable £300 a piece. That's £9K you've lost on that flight. Multiply that over 80 flights a day. £720K. Then let's look at the profit reported last year. It was a "record" according to the press releases, of £41.6m. Conservatively, the impact of a threatened or real strike would have an impact on the airline for at least 3 months - and that would be working hard to get back pax who deserted, or even directly effected by industrial action. That 10% downturn for just 3 months would cost the company £64.8m in turnover - so on last year's figures, they're already £23m in the red - and that's using very conservative figures which don't account for an actual strike or the long-term loss of corporate accounts. How many jobs would need to be cut just to break even?
Don't be fooled, this strike - and even just the possibility of it - is going to cost the company dear, and unless it can be nipped in the bud pretty damn quick, there will have to be a lot of cutbacks to stay afloat.
You are offering no evidence that the company can afford this, but you are being very cavalier with the livelihoods of others.
You seem to forget, when 'Dicky' won the dirty tricks court case, he gave the proceeds to the staff.