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To all those people that got into JetStar International, can you guys tell me what your actual contract conditions are like and what hours and turn around times are ? So many rumours as per usual flying around hard to ascertain the actual truth of the matter.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Thanks to the people who helped me with my JQ enquires. I was offered a position for the SYD base today starting training in a few weeks.
Very proud to be a part of the new cabin crew generation
All I need to do now is work out how I will finish my degree while at ground school! Lucky I have a good rapport with my teacher, will take a bit of negotiation to get around this one.
All the best!
Pinklemonae
Very proud to be a part of the new cabin crew generation
All I need to do now is work out how I will finish my degree while at ground school! Lucky I have a good rapport with my teacher, will take a bit of negotiation to get around this one.All the best!
Pinklemonae
Last edited by pinklemonae; 2nd Oct 2006 at 10:29. Reason: Stuff up
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Clearing Up A Few Things
OK, so it's time to clear up the rumours. I have accepted a position with JQI starting on 1/11 and am sick of hearing about all these rumours that are just not clear. I may be new to flying but know that there are many worse conditions out there and really don't know of many people that don't complain about their conditions so it is a decision you need to make for yourself, to see if it suits you and not to listen to the likes of Leane7 and others who don't give valid reasons as to why you shouldn't work for JQ or those in QF that are scared about this working well and their own conditions changing in coming years.
So for all that are still interested and are as excited about this new airline as I am here is a little bit about what I have received:
There are 8 days off per roster period (28 days) in your home base, none of these will be OS. There will be some slip days os (mainly for the Mel crew). And there are a few standby days. You will not be on standby on your days off however can elect to work to get more hours. If you have to work on your days off for any reason you are given a substitute day off. You can be contacted on a day off however nothing says that you have to be available.
There is no shared accomondation.
As far as I can tell there will be about a 50/50 mix of Thai and Aussie crew during startup.
Rest periods are dependent on your duty hours ie 0-14 - 12hrs planned rest, 14-17 - =duty hours planned rest, 17-24 - 20 hours planned rest
Airport Standby - all elapsed hours spent on stand-bu prior to the allocation of a flying duty will be credited towards the roster period hours total but not to the duty hour limitations.
Oh there are like a billion other rumours floating around and seriously people should stop taking it as gospel and find out the answers for themselves and that does not mean from current JQ Domestic employees as half of them have it wrong too!
So for all that are still interested and are as excited about this new airline as I am here is a little bit about what I have received:
There are 8 days off per roster period (28 days) in your home base, none of these will be OS. There will be some slip days os (mainly for the Mel crew). And there are a few standby days. You will not be on standby on your days off however can elect to work to get more hours. If you have to work on your days off for any reason you are given a substitute day off. You can be contacted on a day off however nothing says that you have to be available.
There is no shared accomondation.
As far as I can tell there will be about a 50/50 mix of Thai and Aussie crew during startup.
Rest periods are dependent on your duty hours ie 0-14 - 12hrs planned rest, 14-17 - =duty hours planned rest, 17-24 - 20 hours planned rest
Airport Standby - all elapsed hours spent on stand-bu prior to the allocation of a flying duty will be credited towards the roster period hours total but not to the duty hour limitations.
Oh there are like a billion other rumours floating around and seriously people should stop taking it as gospel and find out the answers for themselves and that does not mean from current JQ Domestic employees as half of them have it wrong too!
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Quote- "I may be new to flying but know that there are many worse conditions out there".
---------
I dont know of any flying conditions worse than jetscar international and would be happy to hear of what you know......
My understanding is that you will be paid $32 000 PA for up to 304 hours per 56 day period.........This being International east/west flying.
The type of flying that leaves your body screaming for sleep and/or up all night dealing with jetlag.
As someone who isn't new to flying the conditions sound VERY ordinary to me.
---------
I dont know of any flying conditions worse than jetscar international and would be happy to hear of what you know......
My understanding is that you will be paid $32 000 PA for up to 304 hours per 56 day period.........This being International east/west flying.
The type of flying that leaves your body screaming for sleep and/or up all night dealing with jetlag.
As someone who isn't new to flying the conditions sound VERY ordinary to me.
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tzenin
A large number of JQ Domestic crew knocked back JQI - including those who didn't turn up to the seminars, based on the contract. Compared to domestic, the base wages for both FA's and CSM's are lower, the rest periods are lower, you have less days off per month, and less control of your roster.
So...5 hours on airport standby, then you're doing a DPS return . 5 hours + 15 hours planned duty (not including delays) = at least 20 hours actual duty, but only considered 15 for rest purposes...yeah, a great deal. Then you have to drive home. IF you can drive home.
Not for International flying in this end of the world, there isn't. Unless, of course, you're BKK crew, or work for an Asian carrier.
Absolutely - it is a decision you need to make for yourself, as other JQ Domestic crew have made. But there aren't many.
Those in QF, and so on, have every right to be alarmed. The JQ contract is by far and away the lowest common demoninator when it comes to rest vs work hours vs work/life balance.
This model will work well purely on the basis of churn and burn - that is YOU burn out, and get replaced in a couple of years by fresh blood.
The QF crew's agreements are built on what works physically in order to deal with the constant back of clock, different time zone flying JQI will be performing. JQ resets the bar, and the guinea pigs will be you guys.
To begin with, the flying will be easy based on the low number of aircraft and limited schedule. However, that will change as more and more aircraft are introduced into the fleet, thus allowing greater rotations of crew.
One word for you...yet. Also, is there anything in your contract preventing this from occurring? No.
In closing, good luck to the JQI crew - you're going to need it.
A large number of JQ Domestic crew knocked back JQI - including those who didn't turn up to the seminars, based on the contract. Compared to domestic, the base wages for both FA's and CSM's are lower, the rest periods are lower, you have less days off per month, and less control of your roster.
"Airport Standby - all elapsed hours spent on stand-bu prior to the allocation of a flying duty will be credited towards the roster period hours total but not to the duty hour limitations."
"I may be new to flying but know that there are many worse conditions out there and really don't know of many people that don't complain about their conditions so it is a decision you need to make for yourself, to see if it suits you and not to listen to the likes of Leane7 and others who don't give valid reasons as to why you shouldn't work for JQ or those in QF that are scared about this working well and their own conditions changing in coming years."
Absolutely - it is a decision you need to make for yourself, as other JQ Domestic crew have made. But there aren't many.
Those in QF, and so on, have every right to be alarmed. The JQ contract is by far and away the lowest common demoninator when it comes to rest vs work hours vs work/life balance.
This model will work well purely on the basis of churn and burn - that is YOU burn out, and get replaced in a couple of years by fresh blood.
The QF crew's agreements are built on what works physically in order to deal with the constant back of clock, different time zone flying JQI will be performing. JQ resets the bar, and the guinea pigs will be you guys.
To begin with, the flying will be easy based on the low number of aircraft and limited schedule. However, that will change as more and more aircraft are introduced into the fleet, thus allowing greater rotations of crew.
"There is no shared accomondation."
In closing, good luck to the JQI crew - you're going to need it.
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tzenin
You come back to this forum in 6-12 months when JQI has grown into the churn and burn monster and tell us that you made the right choice...... What you forget is that the same people who are management for JQI are the same managers or were once managers for JQ Domestic.....
8 days off compared to 10 for Domestic
Maximum of 140 hours for Domestic...
Min 12 hours rest even if I fly for 2 hours up to 15 for a crap day
Last tax year was a low one so I only earnt $55K.......Cabin Crew wage
No timezone changes
OH and I have a UNION,,,, they back me when JQ domestic try to pull the wool over my eyes......
Domestic people are in a MUCH MUCH MUCH better position work/life/financial than JQI will be....
Not as good as the kids across the road at QF but lets not forget that we only do this job because we love meeting new people and love travel.....
You come back to this forum in 6-12 months when JQI has grown into the churn and burn monster and tell us that you made the right choice...... What you forget is that the same people who are management for JQI are the same managers or were once managers for JQ Domestic.....
8 days off compared to 10 for Domestic
Maximum of 140 hours for Domestic...
Min 12 hours rest even if I fly for 2 hours up to 15 for a crap day
Last tax year was a low one so I only earnt $55K.......Cabin Crew wage
No timezone changes
OH and I have a UNION,,,, they back me when JQ domestic try to pull the wool over my eyes......
Domestic people are in a MUCH MUCH MUCH better position work/life/financial than JQI will be....
Not as good as the kids across the road at QF but lets not forget that we only do this job because we love meeting new people and love travel.....
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Does anyone know how long ground school for domestic is? Three weeks is what I seem to remember?
Thanks
So many things happening at one time for me..Its always the way.
Thanks
So many things happening at one time for me..Its always the way.
Last edited by pinklemonae; 3rd Oct 2006 at 22:26.
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Tzenin,
Where do I start? Firstly, I don't work for Jet* , Q.F, Vb. I am out of the industry and enjoying another career so I am now regular SLF and a keen observer of the industry I was a part of ,in various guises, for 20 years.
From this unbiased and external perspective I can appreciate how keen and excited you are to be starting a new career with a new international venture but I post this to tell you that , from what you say , your award is harsh and unreasonable.
The duty hours you tell us about are arduous , even with the rest periods between them. You have just got to realise how tiring and draining flying is.
The air quality within a cabin is stale at best . You will be working long hours in a cabin atitude of approximately 7500 feet . The constant disruption to your circadian rhythm ( please do a web search and read all about this ) leaves you tired and run down . - 8 days off in 28 is insufficient for even the healthiest person to recover from. Being run down like that means becoming much more succeptable to ILLNESS which F/A's are sitting ducks for anyway due to the poor air conditioning on even the most modern of aircraft.
How much sick leave are they going to give you? How will you feel when you get called in for "counselling" after using it all up and more? Don't expect any sympathy.
No mention of any buffers around your days off - can you finish at midnight before your days off then start at 0400 after them? Can you have single days off or do they have to be grouped? How much annnual leave are you getting ?
Do you have any say in when you can take it? Any rostering flexibility ?
I'm sure that there are many more finer, but important conditions, that other ppruners can add.
From what you can tell me these work conditions are draconian and unsustainable in the long term.
Oh, by the way , one of my ex colleagues , now has a managerial postion with Jet* ( mainly concerned with cabin crew ) . She has had years of experience both as domestic and International crew ( not with Q.F may I add ) " On the record" - she tows the company line with regards to the jet* international conditions . Off the record she admits that , even as a young girl , she would not last long working those hours internationally OR domestically.
If you were getting paid well for the harsh conditions it may make up for something , but you have sold yourself very cheaply to the Australian aviation industry. From what I am reading your domestic counterparts are getting paid substantially more than you for better conditions-and that is an injustice in itself.
What is going to happen when your award comes up for negotiation ?
This mob are going to drive for even more productivity for a couple of percent a year pay rise . What is there left to give ? More duty hours? Less days off? Less rest between shifts? Perhaps you could then start sharing accomodation? If you don't concede something-no pay rise !
I hope you can last a while in your new and exciting role . I truly fear that, when the novelty of the new job wears off , you will be left disillusioned and disappointed. It won't matter if you leave. It will only take 4 weeks to train another young hopeful who will be equally excited about their new career. Jet* know this and will exploit it for all it's worth.
I have a 13 year old daughter who aspires to being a flight attendant.
She has even studied up on wages , conditions and experience needed you need . Even she can see that your award is the harshest in the Australian industry.
After several trips as SLF on various carriers her preference is V.B . - and good luck to her !
Please take no offence at my post , I don't intend to put the hand brake on your excitement , merely point out to you a few realities so will be aware of them as they occur.
Enjoy you new career and enjoy your days off . I now have a career in the health sciences so if you like I can pop around and give you a couple of litres of intravenous isotonic crystalloid solution at the start of them-- you'll need it !
Priapism
Where do I start? Firstly, I don't work for Jet* , Q.F, Vb. I am out of the industry and enjoying another career so I am now regular SLF and a keen observer of the industry I was a part of ,in various guises, for 20 years.
From this unbiased and external perspective I can appreciate how keen and excited you are to be starting a new career with a new international venture but I post this to tell you that , from what you say , your award is harsh and unreasonable.
The duty hours you tell us about are arduous , even with the rest periods between them. You have just got to realise how tiring and draining flying is.
The air quality within a cabin is stale at best . You will be working long hours in a cabin atitude of approximately 7500 feet . The constant disruption to your circadian rhythm ( please do a web search and read all about this ) leaves you tired and run down . - 8 days off in 28 is insufficient for even the healthiest person to recover from. Being run down like that means becoming much more succeptable to ILLNESS which F/A's are sitting ducks for anyway due to the poor air conditioning on even the most modern of aircraft.
How much sick leave are they going to give you? How will you feel when you get called in for "counselling" after using it all up and more? Don't expect any sympathy.
No mention of any buffers around your days off - can you finish at midnight before your days off then start at 0400 after them? Can you have single days off or do they have to be grouped? How much annnual leave are you getting ?
Do you have any say in when you can take it? Any rostering flexibility ?
I'm sure that there are many more finer, but important conditions, that other ppruners can add.
From what you can tell me these work conditions are draconian and unsustainable in the long term.
Oh, by the way , one of my ex colleagues , now has a managerial postion with Jet* ( mainly concerned with cabin crew ) . She has had years of experience both as domestic and International crew ( not with Q.F may I add ) " On the record" - she tows the company line with regards to the jet* international conditions . Off the record she admits that , even as a young girl , she would not last long working those hours internationally OR domestically.
If you were getting paid well for the harsh conditions it may make up for something , but you have sold yourself very cheaply to the Australian aviation industry. From what I am reading your domestic counterparts are getting paid substantially more than you for better conditions-and that is an injustice in itself.
What is going to happen when your award comes up for negotiation ?
This mob are going to drive for even more productivity for a couple of percent a year pay rise . What is there left to give ? More duty hours? Less days off? Less rest between shifts? Perhaps you could then start sharing accomodation? If you don't concede something-no pay rise !
I hope you can last a while in your new and exciting role . I truly fear that, when the novelty of the new job wears off , you will be left disillusioned and disappointed. It won't matter if you leave. It will only take 4 weeks to train another young hopeful who will be equally excited about their new career. Jet* know this and will exploit it for all it's worth.
I have a 13 year old daughter who aspires to being a flight attendant.
She has even studied up on wages , conditions and experience needed you need . Even she can see that your award is the harshest in the Australian industry.
After several trips as SLF on various carriers her preference is V.B . - and good luck to her !
Please take no offence at my post , I don't intend to put the hand brake on your excitement , merely point out to you a few realities so will be aware of them as they occur.
Enjoy you new career and enjoy your days off . I now have a career in the health sciences so if you like I can pop around and give you a couple of litres of intravenous isotonic crystalloid solution at the start of them-- you'll need it !
Priapism
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As an avid reader of this forum, I have a dumb question.
With the award as it stands for Jet * Int will the cabin crew have to work return legs of flights to the following destinations:-
Melbourne - Bankok
Sydney - Phuket
Sydney - Honalulu
Syd/Melb - Ho Chi minh
etc etc
When you look at the routes of proposed flying and only 4 then 6 A330s to do the flying the majority of destinations are only going to be serviced 3 or 4 times a week.
Now if you don't have to work the return sector it would mean 1-3 day layovers so perhaps the early years in JQ Int could be quite easy on the body and fun despite whats written in their AWA. You may infact get more rest away than home. 1-3 day layovers are a thing of the past for almost all destinations QF s/h or l/h
Correct me if I am wrong but don't shoot me
With the award as it stands for Jet * Int will the cabin crew have to work return legs of flights to the following destinations:-
Melbourne - Bankok
Sydney - Phuket
Sydney - Honalulu
Syd/Melb - Ho Chi minh
etc etc
When you look at the routes of proposed flying and only 4 then 6 A330s to do the flying the majority of destinations are only going to be serviced 3 or 4 times a week.
Now if you don't have to work the return sector it would mean 1-3 day layovers so perhaps the early years in JQ Int could be quite easy on the body and fun despite whats written in their AWA. You may infact get more rest away than home. 1-3 day layovers are a thing of the past for almost all destinations QF s/h or l/h
Correct me if I am wrong but don't shoot me
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Bolty,
With the high numbers of duty hours required it would be impossible to build a roster with many "away" slips in it within the confines of 28 days, even with minimum rest between duties.
With the high numbers of duty hours required it would be impossible to build a roster with many "away" slips in it within the confines of 28 days, even with minimum rest between duties.
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With the high numbers of duty hours required it would be impossible to build a roster with many "away" slips in it within the confines of 28 days, even with minimum rest between duties.
This is my point. If you fly somewhere on a long sector and the next flight doesn't arrive for 3 days, what do you do?
Do you pax on another lcc to another location to operate out of that port eg Arrive Phuket pax to BKK, overnight and operate BKK - MEL.
If Jet * can't make a roster work so Cabin crew can't work the prescibed hours. Will they receive less pay? If the answer is no, early days in Jet* Int could be quite cruzy
Last edited by Bolty McBolt; 5th Oct 2006 at 01:50.
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WATCH this SPACE
SYD - BKK - minimum rest
pax BKK - PHUKET
PHUKET - SYD - minimum rest
PAX SYD - MEL
MEL - SGN - Minimum rest
PAX SGN - BKK
BKK - SYD
Just an example - CEO said that is the way he would like to see it go......
Not out of the field
I think that 5 days sitting on the beach in Phuket waiting for the plane to come back and get me is a beautiful dream.....
JQI crew will be worked to within an inch of their lives.... They will all leave.... and BKK crew will be waiting to take the job....
SYD - BKK - minimum rest
pax BKK - PHUKET
PHUKET - SYD - minimum rest
PAX SYD - MEL
MEL - SGN - Minimum rest
PAX SGN - BKK
BKK - SYD
Just an example - CEO said that is the way he would like to see it go......
Not out of the field
I think that 5 days sitting on the beach in Phuket waiting for the plane to come back and get me is a beautiful dream.....
JQI crew will be worked to within an inch of their lives.... They will all leave.... and BKK crew will be waiting to take the job....
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Tzenin like others have said lets see how you are going in a years time.
I have 9-10 days off per month half of my layovers are 48 + hours and some of my flights are 45 minute turnarounds and I still get very tired. I just did a 5 hour flight had a 24 hour layover and flew back and slept for 13 hours. All off your flights will be alot more than 5 hours.
Do you have any idea how hard it will be to do a 10 hour flight. Have 12 hours rest ( remembering you have to get to and from your hotel plus get ready for the flight back so there goes a couple of hours) then fly back.
I have 9-10 days off per month half of my layovers are 48 + hours and some of my flights are 45 minute turnarounds and I still get very tired. I just did a 5 hour flight had a 24 hour layover and flew back and slept for 13 hours. All off your flights will be alot more than 5 hours.
Do you have any idea how hard it will be to do a 10 hour flight. Have 12 hours rest ( remembering you have to get to and from your hotel plus get ready for the flight back so there goes a couple of hours) then fly back.
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cut some slack
the guy/girl is new to the industry. as we "oldies" know your upcoming conditions are the "worst i ever seen in the aviation industry" a bold statement, i know, but having been around for a few years and a reasonable idea what the rest of the world is doing, unfortunatly it set new standards.definatly not good ones. the only ones laughing are AJ & GD (a reason to kick the bonus along)
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Hope you guys don't mind me lurking on your thread - the VB one has dwindled to nothing - i am interested to see what transpires with JQI as I am sure VBI will follow suit as far as conditions go. (BG I'm sure had a jump for joy when he saw the JQI AWA).
Its sad how low things are getting (VB being my 2nd FA incarnation). I guess ones only outlook is to get as much out of the airlines (they may 'churn and burn' but we can 'use and abuse') as possible and then leave. Sad indeed. There really isn't such thing as a flying career anymore is there?
Companies only get as much as they pay for and I'm sure once the novelty of getting your 'dream job' wears off and you realise your being shafted, then the pax will suffer.
Adam
Its sad how low things are getting (VB being my 2nd FA incarnation). I guess ones only outlook is to get as much out of the airlines (they may 'churn and burn' but we can 'use and abuse') as possible and then leave. Sad indeed. There really isn't such thing as a flying career anymore is there?
Companies only get as much as they pay for and I'm sure once the novelty of getting your 'dream job' wears off and you realise your being shafted, then the pax will suffer.
Adam
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I suggest you all grab a copy of a new zealand based cabin crew contract (with the exception of air nz LH), pinch yourselves and have a good laugh.
With these sort of conditions (JQI included), cabin crew will now be a job that lasts a couple of years as your body just wont last. Make the most of it guys..
As for Leane7 manking comments she isnt backing up - she works on a nz contract now for Long Haul flying, the contract isnt as bad as JQI but she si very aware of what that contract is like to live on so why would she want worse conditions?
The job is revolting at times, i really hope u guys know what you are in for!
With these sort of conditions (JQI included), cabin crew will now be a job that lasts a couple of years as your body just wont last. Make the most of it guys..
As for Leane7 manking comments she isnt backing up - she works on a nz contract now for Long Haul flying, the contract isnt as bad as JQI but she si very aware of what that contract is like to live on so why would she want worse conditions?
The job is revolting at times, i really hope u guys know what you are in for!
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why is the job revolting at times?
Sebby- when you say the job is revolting at times... what do you mean by this?
If so many people on this forum have so much negative stuff to say (not saying you do Sebby) why do you all continue to work as cc. Life is too short to live your lives with regrets and expecially working conditions you don't agree with.
Keep On Smiling guys - it's not that bad is it?
If so many people on this forum have so much negative stuff to say (not saying you do Sebby) why do you all continue to work as cc. Life is too short to live your lives with regrets and expecially working conditions you don't agree with.
Keep On Smiling guys - it's not that bad is it?