NETJETS Europe hiring again
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Expect 2 group exercises on Day 1, if you are successful, you'll have Panel Interview, SIM, drug test and document check on Day 2. Both days are nicely organized.
One day later you will receive call/email from KURA whether you passed or not. I was lucky enough and I can't wait to start my career in NetJets.
Good luck everyone.
One day later you will receive call/email from KURA whether you passed or not. I was lucky enough and I can't wait to start my career in NetJets.
Good luck everyone.
Join Date: Mar 2024
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Hi Everyone,
This is my first post here on PPRuNe. Since I have only just started my pilot training, a self sponsored ATPL integrated course (For those of you for which that has been a while, it is a CPL + ATPL theory, ME, IR, PBN and MCC endorsements in my case), I am very unfamiliar with how most things work in the aviation industry. Also, please let me know if this post in any way infringes upon the guidelines here on the forum.
I want to thank everyone for the wealth of incredibly detailed information into both practical and personal aspects of being an (biz)aviator, with special thanks to Redsnail, Globally Challenged and EatMyShorts for their countless personal insights in this thread.
After digesting the whole thread, I am left with a whole lot of answers, but even more questions! I will (try) to keep it short and to the contents of this thread.
T.G.A.
P.S. Since this is my first post, I do not think it is possible to sent me a PM since I need three blog posts first according to my account page.
This is my first post here on PPRuNe. Since I have only just started my pilot training, a self sponsored ATPL integrated course (For those of you for which that has been a while, it is a CPL + ATPL theory, ME, IR, PBN and MCC endorsements in my case), I am very unfamiliar with how most things work in the aviation industry. Also, please let me know if this post in any way infringes upon the guidelines here on the forum.
I want to thank everyone for the wealth of incredibly detailed information into both practical and personal aspects of being an (biz)aviator, with special thanks to Redsnail, Globally Challenged and EatMyShorts for their countless personal insights in this thread.
After digesting the whole thread, I am left with a whole lot of answers, but even more questions! I will (try) to keep it short and to the contents of this thread.
- From my current understanding, it is not possible to join a company like NJ straight away when I finish my CPL, due to my lack of flight hours. I have not heard any of my students or teachers even mention biz aviation and things seem to work differently here than at so called regular airlines. How does one start in the biz aviation sector if companies require a certain set of hours (e.g. 1500TT)?
- I have read a lot on this thread about (temporary) gateways, and in regards to them, tax and social security implications. (25% income tax in portugal) + tax in your country of residence if there is a delta, and social contributions in your country of residence as well. Is it possible to live in Portugal too and have your gateway there? Or is it not advisable to do so?
- About type ratings, it sounds like NJ was hiring people for 3 specific plane types, is it possible to later switch to other plane types? If so, what are the implications of doing so (besides flying on a different plane ofcourse)?
T.G.A.
P.S. Since this is my first post, I do not think it is possible to sent me a PM since I need three blog posts first according to my account page.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
G'day TheGreenAviator,
1. Unfortunately no, NJE has in the past run a cadet scheme. It may return in the future but I suspect I'll be retired on the beach in Australia long before then. Most crews come to NJE (and other larger bizjet companies) from the military, smaller GA companies or the airlines. Most instructors in Europe have no idea about bizjets. It hasn't been on the employment radar until recently (as in the past 10 years). Most folks are under the illusion that if it's not Airbus or Boeing, it's not worth knowing. So, unless you are lucky and can get a start on a bizjet after flight school, then you'll probably start at an airline that takes low houred pilots. Get the experience and keep an eye on various job opportunities.
2. Temporary gateways etc, apply to NetJets Europe. Other companies have different set ups. You can live in Portugal if you want to work for NJE. Not a problem. Lisbon is a gateway. I can't remember if Faro is too, I think it opens up as a Summer gateway.
3. Yep, Depending on where you sit on the seniority list, you can fleet change as much as your seat lock and seniority number permits. Some fleets permit you to upgrade on it, naturally, they are the smaller fleets. For many, the sweetspot is the Latitude. APU, reasonable range, does US secondments and you can upgrade on it. However, all fleets have their pluses and minuses. Just ask any of us.
1. Unfortunately no, NJE has in the past run a cadet scheme. It may return in the future but I suspect I'll be retired on the beach in Australia long before then. Most crews come to NJE (and other larger bizjet companies) from the military, smaller GA companies or the airlines. Most instructors in Europe have no idea about bizjets. It hasn't been on the employment radar until recently (as in the past 10 years). Most folks are under the illusion that if it's not Airbus or Boeing, it's not worth knowing. So, unless you are lucky and can get a start on a bizjet after flight school, then you'll probably start at an airline that takes low houred pilots. Get the experience and keep an eye on various job opportunities.
2. Temporary gateways etc, apply to NetJets Europe. Other companies have different set ups. You can live in Portugal if you want to work for NJE. Not a problem. Lisbon is a gateway. I can't remember if Faro is too, I think it opens up as a Summer gateway.
3. Yep, Depending on where you sit on the seniority list, you can fleet change as much as your seat lock and seniority number permits. Some fleets permit you to upgrade on it, naturally, they are the smaller fleets. For many, the sweetspot is the Latitude. APU, reasonable range, does US secondments and you can upgrade on it. However, all fleets have their pluses and minuses. Just ask any of us.
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Hi Redsnail,
Thanks for the thorough reply.
TGA
Thanks for the thorough reply.
- I am sad to hear that it is hard to start out in the business aviation. Since I do not have hours in either category (biz or airline), the wasted time concept in one industry or another applies to a lesser degree to my situation. Indeed, so far, your comment regarding boeing and airbus seems true as well. Based on some comments earlier in this thread, I feel like the lifestyle of biz aviation (that you and a few others that seem to work there) fits me (even) better! Are you aware of any companies or employers where you can realistically start straight away after flight school? (If it is helpful, I have dutch citizenship and am willing to move anywhere globally)
- I looked up the taxation terms for living in portugal, since country of residence is fairly adaptable, I understand why some people choose to live outside of portugal and take the 25% flat fee.
- I am unfamiliar with the terms APU and US secondments, could you elaborate on those? Are there any specific type (ratings) that you recommend for a fresh graduate? If so, why those?
TGA
Hi TGA,
- Netjets only hires experienced pilots (min 1500 hours total flight time - minimum 500 hours multi-crew with multi-engine flight time). However, many smaller operators that only have one or a few other smaller aircraft will hire beginner pilots. Salaries and conditions will most likely be miles off what better companies like Netjets or FlexJet offer. I assume that many operators will charge you for your first type rating, because they don't want new hires to head out the door again as soon as they have completed their minimum hours to apply elsewhere.
- Yes, taxation and social security take a huge chunk off of your gross salary, certainly more than 50%. Other countries, e.g. Germany, still do not tax you on top of the 25% tax at source in Portugal, but you still have to pay social security, which is also quite a sum of money.
- APU = Auxiliary Power Unit - that small noisy engine in the tail section of aircraft that is used to generate electricity and bleed air while the engines are switched off, usually on the ground. Makes life much more comfortable when you heat/cool your cabin and do not have to sit in the dark at night while waiting on the ground. US secondments = for the last few winter seasons Netjets Europe aircraft ferried over to the US to the help "The Mothership" (Netjets US) during their ultra busy days and season, namely Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year. It is quite interesting to operate those flights between the US, Central America and The Caribbean, it's something different than the dull European stuff.
Last edited by EatMyShorts!; 7th Mar 2024 at 21:50. Reason: typing errors
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Hi EMS,
The minimum hour requirement you are referring to (I have also found it on ppjn), is that strictly in a biz jet of a type in the fleet of Netjets? Or are airline hours also counted in this? Would it be an advantage to have logged the hours on bizjet instead of lets say a 737 or 320?
In a few other threads I saw people mentioning some biz companies with as you stated, considerably lower T&C, but the opportunity to make a lot of flying hours in biz jets (e.g. Vistajet). Since from what I understand of those threads, you would fly 600-800BH/year there, you could work there for a year or two and then move on to a company that requires more experience to start in like NJ or FJ? I have no clue how and if that would affect habituation characteristics, what are your thoughts on that?
From what I have found out about airlines so far, it doesn’t seem like T&C (and more specifically pay) is much better starting out there, so unless you stumble upon a good starting airline, it seems like you would be stuck with low pay until you reach ATPL either way…
Interesting, taxation seems to work very differently than normal if you are employed in a different country. Can you recommend some countries that would be interesting to look up regarding their tax agreements with Portugal?
Oh wow indeed, the US secondments seem super interesting to do indeed.
Thank you for your insights so far!
Since I have reached my required posts to unlock PM, anyone, feel free to sent me one if you have questions (about/for me), or answer any my questions!
Please let me know if the questions go outside the guidelines in this thread.
Peace,
TGA
The minimum hour requirement you are referring to (I have also found it on ppjn), is that strictly in a biz jet of a type in the fleet of Netjets? Or are airline hours also counted in this? Would it be an advantage to have logged the hours on bizjet instead of lets say a 737 or 320?
In a few other threads I saw people mentioning some biz companies with as you stated, considerably lower T&C, but the opportunity to make a lot of flying hours in biz jets (e.g. Vistajet). Since from what I understand of those threads, you would fly 600-800BH/year there, you could work there for a year or two and then move on to a company that requires more experience to start in like NJ or FJ? I have no clue how and if that would affect habituation characteristics, what are your thoughts on that?
From what I have found out about airlines so far, it doesn’t seem like T&C (and more specifically pay) is much better starting out there, so unless you stumble upon a good starting airline, it seems like you would be stuck with low pay until you reach ATPL either way…
Interesting, taxation seems to work very differently than normal if you are employed in a different country. Can you recommend some countries that would be interesting to look up regarding their tax agreements with Portugal?
Oh wow indeed, the US secondments seem super interesting to do indeed.
Thank you for your insights so far!
Since I have reached my required posts to unlock PM, anyone, feel free to sent me one if you have questions (about/for me), or answer any my questions!
Please let me know if the questions go outside the guidelines in this thread.
Peace,
TGA
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Also, another topic all together, would it be smart to proactively approach Biz Av companies, while in the integrated ATPL course, like Netjets, Flexjet and VistaJet for input on how to proceed after obtaining my frozen ATPL if I want to be employed there? Or is this generally frowned upon in this sector of the industry?
(DM is open for anyone!)
Cheers, TGA
(DM is open for anyone!)
Cheers, TGA
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Hi TGA,
The hour requirement in NetJets Europe of 1500 hours is a slightly more complicated than that. Eg, if you did 1500 hours only in a small piston Cessna, that would not make you competitive. The hour requirements mean that you should have an ATPL. That is, you are qualified to hold a command in a multi pilot aircraft. (Yes, the actual hours required for that are closer to 3000 in reality). In what aircraft type you get those hours is not important, ideally, they should be on a multi pilot aircraft, eg A320, B787, C680, Dash 8 etc.
I don't know what the hour requirements are to join Vistajet or Flexjet. Ok just checked, Vistajet require 2500 hours.
Many of our new hire pilots have come from Ryanair. They do take cadet pilots but the T&Cs aren't brilliant. They get approximately 800-900 hours a year versus someone flying a Cessna Excel possibly getting 200 hours a year. Guess who will get the experience required to join a bigger bizjet outfit? Also, don't ignore the rigorous SOPs (standard operating procedures) that the airlines bring. The Customer focus aspect in a smaller bizjet company is good, but if you're personal operating standards is non existent, you'll struggle (initially) in the bigger companies.
Contacting the Director of Flight Operations may help with smaller companies. The difficulty is access. If they are located on an airport, just getting through security can be practically impossible unless they know you're coming. Always remember, the DFO is usually very busy, so if you don't hear from them, there's probably a good reason.
How to join "X" after gaining your CPL.
0. Get the best grades and passes you can but don't be an annoying person.
1. Get a flying job. Yep, that's the challenge. Don't be an annoying person.
2. If the first job won't get you the experience you need, eg, multi pilot turbine etc. Apply to as many as you can. Here's where not being annoying can help.
3. Keep an eye on recruitment windows. With NetJets Europe, that's through Kura on LinkedIn.
What do I mean by not being annoying? Think about the person you have to be with for 6 days. Do you want them to be irritating, annoying, miserable, whining? Or do you want someone who enjoys the challenge (whatever it may be), keen to learn, turns up prepared, knows when to speak up and knows when to chill, proactive and helps out. Be that person.
The hour requirement in NetJets Europe of 1500 hours is a slightly more complicated than that. Eg, if you did 1500 hours only in a small piston Cessna, that would not make you competitive. The hour requirements mean that you should have an ATPL. That is, you are qualified to hold a command in a multi pilot aircraft. (Yes, the actual hours required for that are closer to 3000 in reality). In what aircraft type you get those hours is not important, ideally, they should be on a multi pilot aircraft, eg A320, B787, C680, Dash 8 etc.
I don't know what the hour requirements are to join Vistajet or Flexjet. Ok just checked, Vistajet require 2500 hours.
Many of our new hire pilots have come from Ryanair. They do take cadet pilots but the T&Cs aren't brilliant. They get approximately 800-900 hours a year versus someone flying a Cessna Excel possibly getting 200 hours a year. Guess who will get the experience required to join a bigger bizjet outfit? Also, don't ignore the rigorous SOPs (standard operating procedures) that the airlines bring. The Customer focus aspect in a smaller bizjet company is good, but if you're personal operating standards is non existent, you'll struggle (initially) in the bigger companies.
Contacting the Director of Flight Operations may help with smaller companies. The difficulty is access. If they are located on an airport, just getting through security can be practically impossible unless they know you're coming. Always remember, the DFO is usually very busy, so if you don't hear from them, there's probably a good reason.
How to join "X" after gaining your CPL.
0. Get the best grades and passes you can but don't be an annoying person.
1. Get a flying job. Yep, that's the challenge. Don't be an annoying person.
2. If the first job won't get you the experience you need, eg, multi pilot turbine etc. Apply to as many as you can. Here's where not being annoying can help.
3. Keep an eye on recruitment windows. With NetJets Europe, that's through Kura on LinkedIn.
What do I mean by not being annoying? Think about the person you have to be with for 6 days. Do you want them to be irritating, annoying, miserable, whining? Or do you want someone who enjoys the challenge (whatever it may be), keen to learn, turns up prepared, knows when to speak up and knows when to chill, proactive and helps out. Be that person.
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Hi Redsnail,
What I understand from your message. You advice joining an airline initially as a cadet, this mostly because you will gather flight hours quickly on a big multipilot aircraft, and in addition, learn to abide by strict SOPs?
By approaching companies I meant mostly over mail or phone, not physically (I prefer not to take breaks during integrated course to visit companies), and then inquiring if they can provide more information on how to become eligible (i.e. more competitive a candidate). Or in other words, what is their opinion of the most effective pathway to their company.
I ask here mostly because the last thing I want to do is regarded as “annoying” before I can even seriously apply for a position (with the benefit of possibly building up a line of communication with said company).
My course should finish around 2025 Q3, so that I have plenty of time before then. Luckily, I think, my flight school emphasises a lot on building soft skills. (in their words, almost everyone can learn how to become a pilot, but few learn to become aviators).
If you have any tips for me specifically in that regard PLEASE do sent me a PM. Again thank you for all the (to me) invaluable information.
Cheers TGA
PS. I hear from a lot of recently graduated pilots here that they do end up at ryanair, wizzair and also a few at easyjet.
What I understand from your message. You advice joining an airline initially as a cadet, this mostly because you will gather flight hours quickly on a big multipilot aircraft, and in addition, learn to abide by strict SOPs?
By approaching companies I meant mostly over mail or phone, not physically (I prefer not to take breaks during integrated course to visit companies), and then inquiring if they can provide more information on how to become eligible (i.e. more competitive a candidate). Or in other words, what is their opinion of the most effective pathway to their company.
I ask here mostly because the last thing I want to do is regarded as “annoying” before I can even seriously apply for a position (with the benefit of possibly building up a line of communication with said company).
My course should finish around 2025 Q3, so that I have plenty of time before then. Luckily, I think, my flight school emphasises a lot on building soft skills. (in their words, almost everyone can learn how to become a pilot, but few learn to become aviators).
If you have any tips for me specifically in that regard PLEASE do sent me a PM. Again thank you for all the (to me) invaluable information.
Cheers TGA
PS. I hear from a lot of recently graduated pilots here that they do end up at ryanair, wizzair and also a few at easyjet.
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Redsnail,
I went on a hunt through ryanair’s career section after your message. It seems they are also looking for pilot on the learjet 45, both first officers and captains. What are your thoughts on switching to a learjet for ryan air after the hour requirement they list for applying for an FO learjet position(NTR: 500 on multicrew, ME, in commercial ops, TR: 500TT, 100 on type), and completing my 1500 hours on one of those. Would you get the benefit of both worlds there so to say? (Both good T&C, and strict SOPs while flying a bizjet?)
Many thanks,
TGA
I went on a hunt through ryanair’s career section after your message. It seems they are also looking for pilot on the learjet 45, both first officers and captains. What are your thoughts on switching to a learjet for ryan air after the hour requirement they list for applying for an FO learjet position(NTR: 500 on multicrew, ME, in commercial ops, TR: 500TT, 100 on type), and completing my 1500 hours on one of those. Would you get the benefit of both worlds there so to say? (Both good T&C, and strict SOPs while flying a bizjet?)
Many thanks,
TGA
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Expect 2 group exercises on Day 1, if you are successful, you'll have Panel Interview, SIM, drug test and document check on Day 2. Both days are nicely organized.
One day later you will receive call/email from KURA whether you passed or not. I was lucky enough and I can't wait to start my career in NetJets.
Good luck everyone.
One day later you will receive call/email from KURA whether you passed or not. I was lucky enough and I can't wait to start my career in NetJets.
Good luck everyone.
Last edited by bamzwerg; 9th Mar 2024 at 18:05.
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Redsnail,
I went on a hunt through ryanair’s career section after your message. It seems they are also looking for pilot on the learjet 45, both first officers and captains. What are your thoughts on switching to a learjet for ryan air after the hour requirement they list for applying for an FO learjet position(NTR: 500 on multicrew, ME, in commercial ops, TR: 500TT, 100 on type), and completing my 1500 hours on one of those. Would you get the benefit of both worlds there so to say? (Both good T&C, and strict SOPs while flying a bizjet?)
Many thanks,
TGA
I went on a hunt through ryanair’s career section after your message. It seems they are also looking for pilot on the learjet 45, both first officers and captains. What are your thoughts on switching to a learjet for ryan air after the hour requirement they list for applying for an FO learjet position(NTR: 500 on multicrew, ME, in commercial ops, TR: 500TT, 100 on type), and completing my 1500 hours on one of those. Would you get the benefit of both worlds there so to say? (Both good T&C, and strict SOPs while flying a bizjet?)
Many thanks,
TGA
You will fly very little hours and are always on standby. They fly spare parts with those learjets. So you will only fly to the Ryanair Airports, you won't have any VIP Passenger experience. This job is not good to boost your career and flight hours. I don't think - apart from the (old) rating - it will give you any advantage over flying the 737 and get hours faster.
Last edited by bamzwerg; 9th Mar 2024 at 18:04.
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Agreed. I didn't hear many good things about Wizz. Payment, working times, roster - all disaster.
Ryan is doing much better as long as you fly or have a fix working contract with them.
Ryan is doing much better as long as you fly
or have a fix working contract with them.Last edited by bamzwerg; 9th Mar 2024 at 18:03.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I would get my ATPL (1500 hours etc) on an airline type aircraft, eg if with Ryanair, a B737. What do they use the Lear for? Crew transport or VVIP transport? If it's only crew transport, you may as well fly the B737 and amass the hours.
However, I am not in recruitment.
BTW - we no longer use the term soft skills. It's now known as non-techs or no-techs. (technical).
Good luck with emailing the various companies, but as I have said in earlier posts, you may not hear from them as they are really busy people.
Really, for now, focus on your studies. You've got enough to do.
However, I am not in recruitment.
BTW - we no longer use the term soft skills. It's now known as non-techs or no-techs. (technical).
Good luck with emailing the various companies, but as I have said in earlier posts, you may not hear from them as they are really busy people.
Really, for now, focus on your studies. You've got enough to do.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Speaking of interviews, I hope the candidates today went well.
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I would get my ATPL (1500 hours etc) on an airline type aircraft, eg if with Ryanair, a B737. What do they use the Lear for? Crew transport or VVIP transport? If it's only crew transport, you may as well fly the B737 and amass the hours.
However, I am not in recruitment.
BTW - we no longer use the term soft skills. It's now known as non-techs or no-techs. (technical).
Good luck with emailing the various companies, but as I have said in earlier posts, you may not hear from them as they are really busy people.
Really, for now, focus on your studies. You've got enough to do.
However, I am not in recruitment.
BTW - we no longer use the term soft skills. It's now known as non-techs or no-techs. (technical).
Good luck with emailing the various companies, but as I have said in earlier posts, you may not hear from them as they are really busy people.
Really, for now, focus on your studies. You've got enough to do.
Cheers,
TGA
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Good day to all of you ! Anyone going to next session of stage 3 in April ? Willing to prepare the selection process gathering info helping to be ready on that session. Fell free to share on the forum or by PM. Safe flights !