NETJETS Europe hiring again
When I joined before 2006, the starting salary depended on the fleet and could be as low as 42 000 EUR (approx). And even with the higher and unified starting salaries after 2007, there was no automatic jump after 2 years. We have that now, one will get a significantly higher wage in year 3: 66 300 EUR. Including the average block hour bonus and maybe a few extra days you can easily make 80k gross. Without per diems.
And what has happened to GA? In Netjets you will NEVER pay for a type rating. Elsewhere you will. Therefore you can see the "low" starting salary as a way to pay off the training cost.
And what has happened to GA? In Netjets you will NEVER pay for a type rating. Elsewhere you will. Therefore you can see the "low" starting salary as a way to pay off the training cost.
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Reading back through the thread, can someone please explain what "Tour based pay" is? Is that something you get as new joiner or is that only applicable with some seniority?
Also regarding the vacation days, do you take 6 days and get the preceding and following 5 days OFF too or will the pattern change that you start a new tour immediately after a vacation?
Thanks guys for answering all the questions on the thread, it's really helpful.
Also regarding the vacation days, do you take 6 days and get the preceding and following 5 days OFF too or will the pattern change that you start a new tour immediately after a vacation?
Thanks guys for answering all the questions on the thread, it's really helpful.
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When I joined before 2006, the starting salary depended on the fleet and could be as low as 42 000 EUR (approx). And even with the higher and unified starting salaries after 2007, there was no automatic jump after 2 years. We have that now, one will get a significantly higher wage in year 3: 66 300 EUR. Including the average block hour bonus and maybe a few extra days you can easily make 80k gross. Without per diems.
And what has happened to GA? In Netjets you will NEVER pay for a type rating. Elsewhere you will. Therefore you can see the "low" starting salary as a way to pay off the training cost.
And what has happened to GA? In Netjets you will NEVER pay for a type rating. Elsewhere you will. Therefore you can see the "low" starting salary as a way to pay off the training cost.
There's a general feeling among NJE pilots that outside NJE conditions are not good, roster being the first argument, but in fact not really, you find better packages, in terms of salary, vacation, pension plans, and even roster.
Exemption of course, if you want to live in Aberdeen or Malaga, chances are that your best option is NJE, but in the major European cities you can find better gigs. And yes, I am an ex NJE and loved it for the most part, colleagues is real asset, there's a great atmosphere among crews.
Roster is stable, but the trade-off is salary below average standard and no decent pension plan still...you can't have it all! Job security? Well in our industry forget about job security and not better at NJE, look at what happened a few months ago...
What makes you say that in Business Aviation you pay for your own type rating? Most serious, and thereīs more than NJE that fits that description, donīt make you pay for your type rating - the company will likely make you sign a training bond, but thatīs it. Even VistaJet doesnīt make you pay for your type rating. Of course there are the bottom feeder companies that everybody will escape at first opportunity. The starting salary in NJE is low, the 2nd year jump to higher salary is still not impressive, and thatīs just the way it is. But, as itīs been said, there plenty of other good reasons to go for NJE as an employer, salary is not one of them.
I don't think that 70 to 80k is a "low" wage for the first 2 years. Don't forget that in quite a few countries you won't pay any additional tax on top of the tax at source in Portugal. You really need to compare net salaries in this case, not solely the gross pay. And you also need to have a look where you can find jobs, realistically. BA? Forget it. I just had a look at Condor at PPJN: 66.4k starting salary and a bit of overtime pay. That's less than Netjets, after tax. Or ASL Airlines Belgium: 43.8k in the first year, then 59.8k in the second year. As well much less than NJE. Air Hamburg: 36k to 42k starting salary, depending on fleet. THAT is low. The list goes on.
No, at Netjets you won't be bathing in money. Your motivation should be to come here for the lifestyle and on top of it the money is quite okay. The variable income can be up to 30k or 40k extra per year, don't forget this! Extra work required, though. As a captain it is easy to make 150k to 200k a year, with all the bonuses and a bit of extra work.
"elsewhere you will" well actually not really, never paid a type rating in 20 years + career.
There's a general feeling among NJE pilots that outside NJE conditions are not good, roster being the first argument, but in fact not really, you find better packages, in terms of salary, vacation, pension plans, and even roster.
Exemption of course, if you want to live in Aberdeen or Malaga, chances are that your best option is NJE, but in the major European cities you can find better gigs. And yes, I am an ex NJE and loved it for the most part, colleagues is real asset, there's a great atmosphere among crews.
Roster is stable, but the trade-off is salary below average standard and no decent pension plan still...you can't have it all! Job security? Well in our industry forget about job security and not better at NJE, look at what happened a few months ago...
There's a general feeling among NJE pilots that outside NJE conditions are not good, roster being the first argument, but in fact not really, you find better packages, in terms of salary, vacation, pension plans, and even roster.
Exemption of course, if you want to live in Aberdeen or Malaga, chances are that your best option is NJE, but in the major European cities you can find better gigs. And yes, I am an ex NJE and loved it for the most part, colleagues is real asset, there's a great atmosphere among crews.
Roster is stable, but the trade-off is salary below average standard and no decent pension plan still...you can't have it all! Job security? Well in our industry forget about job security and not better at NJE, look at what happened a few months ago...
Yes, last year was (another) dark chapter of this company and I myself was directly affected by it. Luckily it all turned around after a few months and we are all back in our jobs with our old salaries, types and vacation. In general, though, I will still say that job security is rather high with NJE, compared to many other employers on the European market. Again, it is great to hear that there are great contracts out there and that you guys were able to secure them. All is good.
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
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TBP is an additional bonus on top of the regular block hour productivity bonus. Depending on what options you take for the summer months (June-September), you will make something between 100 and almost 160 EUR extra per hour, after reaching a certain number of planned block hours during a tour. This was the first year that we tested this, those who were approved to take part in it (some fleets are under-crewed, some are over-crewed), some people took 15k home, others up 30k, just for summer.
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
I suppose all fleets for newjoiners are undercrewed and busy and would qualify for the TBP scheme?
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No. You take vacation blocks. Less than 9 days and they will add 2 wrap-around days on each side of this block. 10 days vacation or more, 3 days will be added at both ends. If you take a block of 18 days within one calendar month, the entire month will be off with wrap-around days on ONE side of the next or previous month only. And yes: it will/may disrupt your roster pattern.
What would a roster look like if you're on part time? Would you still have 6 days ON and then more than 5 days OFF, or would it be less days ON in a row..?
Always being away for 6-7 days in a row might be a deal-breaker for me in the long run, so I'd like to see if there are any ways to mitigate that a little or if it's just something that's part of the deal.
Again many thanks for all your answers, really helpful.
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Most tours will be 6 days (7 days for large cabin fleets but that will not be for new hires). You will occasionally get a 4 or 5 day tour to accommodate training or vacation but 6 is the standard you can count on 90% of the time.
If you dont want to be away from home regularly for 6 days at a time then dont join NJE. Simple really. Also dont join with intention of going straight on to part time. It wont work out for you.
If you dont want to be away from home regularly for 6 days at a time then dont join NJE. Simple really. Also dont join with intention of going straight on to part time. It wont work out for you.
Yes, vacation days count towards duty days and need to be substracted from the year total. With 22 vacation days you end up with 178 days and that also includes all recurrent and ground training! Your net flying days would therefore be something like 160 to 165 days a year. If you volunteer of extended days, you work more, but you obviously also make more.
I never took part-time, so I cannot comment on it with full confidence. As a new joiner you will probably not be able to apply for FW (flexible work patterns) for the first year, or two. But I might be wrong on this! There are several FW-programs to have you work more or less than the 200 standard days a year. People who are on a reduced FW-program will work normal tour-lengths and then have longer off-periods between them. Keep in mind that summer months MAY be excluded from this and you will just work less between October and May. But I am not an expert on this part of the contract/policy.
I never took part-time, so I cannot comment on it with full confidence. As a new joiner you will probably not be able to apply for FW (flexible work patterns) for the first year, or two. But I might be wrong on this! There are several FW-programs to have you work more or less than the 200 standard days a year. People who are on a reduced FW-program will work normal tour-lengths and then have longer off-periods between them. Keep in mind that summer months MAY be excluded from this and you will just work less between October and May. But I am not an expert on this part of the contract/policy.
Salary maybe OK for a low hour youngish guy looking for the next 30+ years in aviation? The issue is that it's the same deal for an ex Falcon 900 Captain (for example) with thousands of hours and aged 45. He would be staring in the face at forever RHS and just at the age when he should be earning decent money, simply is not as his future potential years fade away all too quickly.
From my experience trying to end up with a reasonable job lot out of aviation is really not that easy. Many job losses and periods of unemployment plus the never ending demand to finance an employers training liabilities! I will give NJE credit for that one. But rather than seeing a job as a job what about the whole game plan? How does this fit with family, home ownership, raising children, quality of life and most importantly retirement if at an age when you should be in Command earning the highest salary you have ever seen you are stuck RHS on little more than a handling agent deal and your potential for making it up later with any future earnings disappearing fast? In that regard it is not even a reasonable deal unless you want to be poor your entire life!
Additionally If you find yourself out of work mid 50*s your career is done. No-one will be employing you! The next NJE layoffs will affect many of these.
What I am trying to say is see the whole picture, not just the job for tomorrow unless you are young.
From my experience trying to end up with a reasonable job lot out of aviation is really not that easy. Many job losses and periods of unemployment plus the never ending demand to finance an employers training liabilities! I will give NJE credit for that one. But rather than seeing a job as a job what about the whole game plan? How does this fit with family, home ownership, raising children, quality of life and most importantly retirement if at an age when you should be in Command earning the highest salary you have ever seen you are stuck RHS on little more than a handling agent deal and your potential for making it up later with any future earnings disappearing fast? In that regard it is not even a reasonable deal unless you want to be poor your entire life!
Additionally If you find yourself out of work mid 50*s your career is done. No-one will be employing you! The next NJE layoffs will affect many of these.
What I am trying to say is see the whole picture, not just the job for tomorrow unless you are young.
Last edited by happyjack; 22nd Nov 2021 at 12:48.
Salary maybe OK for a low hour youngish guy looking for the next 30+ years in aviation? The issue is that it's the same deal for an ex Falcon 900 Captain (for example) with thousands of hours and aged 45. He would be staring in the face at forever RHS and just at the age when he should be earning decent money, simply is not as his future potential years fade away all too quickly.
Hmmm, handling agents earn 80k a year? Where!?
I wrestled for many years with my consience whilst paying these guys as I could clearly see having a handling agency as nothing but money for old rope! A few contacts a caterer, which I had and he could not believe what was being paid for a few sandwiches, a mobile phone and kerchin!
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Any UK based drivers used parental leave whilst with NJE? Despite being part of employment law, I have found past employers do not understand it well or do not have any system in place to allow employees to use it. I am hoping this isn't the case with someone with the calibre of NJ.
I wrestled for many years with my consience whilst paying these guys as I could clearly see having a handling agency as nothing but money for old rope! A few contacts a caterer, which I had and he could not believe what was being paid for a few sandwiches, a mobile phone and kerchin!
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I know enough companies that will make you pay for an almost useless Citation-rating (on the market), or similar types. You may be able to negotiate your way out of it. At least in Netjets and Vista you know the deal beforehand.
I don't think that 70 to 80k is a "low" wage for the first 2 years. Don't forget that in quite a few countries you won't pay any additional tax on top of the tax at source in Portugal. You really need to compare net salaries in this case, not solely the gross pay. And you also need to have a look where you can find jobs, realistically. BA? Forget it. I just had a look at Condor at PPJN: 66.4k starting salary and a bit of overtime pay. That's less than Netjets, after tax. Or ASL Airlines Belgium: 43.8k in the first year, then 59.8k in the second year. As well much less than NJE. Air Hamburg: 36k to 42k starting salary, depending on fleet. THAT is low. The list goes on.
No, at Netjets you won't be bathing in money. Your motivation should be to come here for the lifestyle and on top of it the money is quite okay. The variable income can be up to 30k or 40k extra per year, don't forget this! Extra work required, though. As a captain it is easy to make 150k to 200k a year, with all the bonuses and a bit of extra work.
I don't think that 70 to 80k is a "low" wage for the first 2 years. Don't forget that in quite a few countries you won't pay any additional tax on top of the tax at source in Portugal. You really need to compare net salaries in this case, not solely the gross pay. And you also need to have a look where you can find jobs, realistically. BA? Forget it. I just had a look at Condor at PPJN: 66.4k starting salary and a bit of overtime pay. That's less than Netjets, after tax. Or ASL Airlines Belgium: 43.8k in the first year, then 59.8k in the second year. As well much less than NJE. Air Hamburg: 36k to 42k starting salary, depending on fleet. THAT is low. The list goes on.
No, at Netjets you won't be bathing in money. Your motivation should be to come here for the lifestyle and on top of it the money is quite okay. The variable income can be up to 30k or 40k extra per year, don't forget this! Extra work required, though. As a captain it is easy to make 150k to 200k a year, with all the bonuses and a bit of extra work.
No you compare gross salaries. Your tax depends on your individual circumstances so when you talk salaries you talk gross. Regardless of industry.
No one with the experience required to join NJE would pay for an XLS rating. If they pay they pay for A320 or 737 rating most of the time.
My point was that the GA salary hasn't followed the inflation while the airline salaries have. You seem to take it personal. I know NJ is a good company to work for, just saying the entry level salary is not what it used to be.
Hi Moonwalker,
no, I do not take it personal, why should I? Actually, the less qualified pilots Netjets is able to find, the better for us here, because the company will have to increase our salaries and conditions.
Have you read the posts of the last few days? Yes, your starting salary will be 58k. But you will probably make another 15k to 30k extra from block hours, that's something that you need to factor into the equation. And as you won't pay any local tax in quite a few countries, comparing net salaries is also okay. Example: when you start with Air Hamburg on a large cabin aircraft, living in Germany, you'll make a net salary of about 27k EUR per year. With NJE you will end up with at least 31k EUR. That's 4.000 EUR more while possibly having a better life-style. And now add a yearly block hour bonus of 15k EUR, you will take a good chunk of that home, too.
By all means, if you don't like the salary and if it is of utmost importance, then NJE won't be for you. I do agree with that! But I do not think that we are grossly underpaid. Or have you seen captains on Phenom 300s who make in excess of 140k per year, gross?
no, I do not take it personal, why should I? Actually, the less qualified pilots Netjets is able to find, the better for us here, because the company will have to increase our salaries and conditions.
Have you read the posts of the last few days? Yes, your starting salary will be 58k. But you will probably make another 15k to 30k extra from block hours, that's something that you need to factor into the equation. And as you won't pay any local tax in quite a few countries, comparing net salaries is also okay. Example: when you start with Air Hamburg on a large cabin aircraft, living in Germany, you'll make a net salary of about 27k EUR per year. With NJE you will end up with at least 31k EUR. That's 4.000 EUR more while possibly having a better life-style. And now add a yearly block hour bonus of 15k EUR, you will take a good chunk of that home, too.
By all means, if you don't like the salary and if it is of utmost importance, then NJE won't be for you. I do agree with that! But I do not think that we are grossly underpaid. Or have you seen captains on Phenom 300s who make in excess of 140k per year, gross?