Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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Testing the Vulcan
I'm doing a book right now on flight testing and demonstrating the Vulcan, hopefully out before 558 takes to the air. There is going to be a chapter on technical analysis of accidents in relation to Vulcan handling and systems design. Certain accidents are not in the archives so I may need help. Will know better next month.
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Terrain Following Radar
Any experts on TFR? When was it fitted to each mark of Vulcan? All the squadrons?
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IIRC we did not have TFR at Cottesmore in 1966. In 1967 I was at Waddington and we definitely introduced it then. It is a fairly safe bet that it was fitted to the Cottesmore Wing in 1967, can’t remember when 12 disbanded. It was then fitted to all the Waddington Wing (Mk 2s only) and also presumably to the Scampton Wing. When Cottesmore moved to Akrotiri Bomber Wing was fully equipped.
Again, IIRC, there were no aircraft on Vulcan sqns between 1964 and 1970. Certainly at Akrotiri up to 1973 the aircraft belonged to the wing an not the sqn. Again I do not remember any special unit markings before Giant Voice and Big Top in the early 70s.
The Darwin picture of 1969 is interesting and would suggest that although the Waddington had TFR before that the fleet was still in transition.
At the time we seemed to wait for ever for small modifications. In retrospect the Vulcan 2 probably had more mods in short order than many other aircraft since.
In 1964 we had just about completed the switch from Gee 3 to Tacan. We still had STR18 HF and twin crystalized VHF boxes; we later got Collins and PTR 175. The rear crew seats were changed to swivel seats - a major mod. We got the HRS, Heading Reference System. The bomb was changed and we got an new panel, ER in place of the earlier EP. The NBS under went various mods, some hidden such as a change of internal relays, other like the Fishpool Mod, change of Calc 3a back to Calc 3, a reversion from Mk 21 to Mk 17 oxygen regulators. New G-meters. A new pitch director for the 2H (YS2) attack). Replacement of one S-band Red Shrimp for L-band. Replacement of Green Palm for the X-band jammer, a crude directional capability on the Blue Saga before it was replaced by the RWI. A dramatic change of Red Steer to Red Steer 2 with a between radar coverage. Addition of Rapid Blooming Window and Infra Red Decoys. Introduction of the 8000lb bomb bay tanks to recover range lost at low level. New fatigue meters. Green Satin replaced by Decca 72M and a new Radio Altimeter. And of course TFR.
As I said, at the time it seemed very slow. Indeed many trips had to be replanned as the aircraft fit was not compatible with the sortie plan. In retrospect, and looking at the battles to get DAS and fuel tank explosion suppression etc we certainly had an OR priority.
Again, IIRC, there were no aircraft on Vulcan sqns between 1964 and 1970. Certainly at Akrotiri up to 1973 the aircraft belonged to the wing an not the sqn. Again I do not remember any special unit markings before Giant Voice and Big Top in the early 70s.
The Darwin picture of 1969 is interesting and would suggest that although the Waddington had TFR before that the fleet was still in transition.
At the time we seemed to wait for ever for small modifications. In retrospect the Vulcan 2 probably had more mods in short order than many other aircraft since.
In 1964 we had just about completed the switch from Gee 3 to Tacan. We still had STR18 HF and twin crystalized VHF boxes; we later got Collins and PTR 175. The rear crew seats were changed to swivel seats - a major mod. We got the HRS, Heading Reference System. The bomb was changed and we got an new panel, ER in place of the earlier EP. The NBS under went various mods, some hidden such as a change of internal relays, other like the Fishpool Mod, change of Calc 3a back to Calc 3, a reversion from Mk 21 to Mk 17 oxygen regulators. New G-meters. A new pitch director for the 2H (YS2) attack). Replacement of one S-band Red Shrimp for L-band. Replacement of Green Palm for the X-band jammer, a crude directional capability on the Blue Saga before it was replaced by the RWI. A dramatic change of Red Steer to Red Steer 2 with a between radar coverage. Addition of Rapid Blooming Window and Infra Red Decoys. Introduction of the 8000lb bomb bay tanks to recover range lost at low level. New fatigue meters. Green Satin replaced by Decca 72M and a new Radio Altimeter. And of course TFR.
As I said, at the time it seemed very slow. Indeed many trips had to be replanned as the aircraft fit was not compatible with the sortie plan. In retrospect, and looking at the battles to get DAS and fuel tank explosion suppression etc we certainly had an OR priority.
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TFR. I'm sure it was fitted at Cottesmore 1966, at least some aircraft were. I was on the line when XH536 went in, 11th February 1966, and CFIT, or whatever it was called then, was our first thought.
However, two sites below contradict one another.
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/volcan.htm
However, two sites below contradict one another.
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/volcan.htm
Last edited by forget; 22nd Oct 2006 at 09:41. Reason: Correct url
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welsh website
TFR. I'm sure it was fitted at Cottesmore 1966, at least some aircraft were. I was on the line when XH536 went in, 11th February 1966, and CFIT, or whatever it was called then, was our first thought.
However, two sites below contradict one another.
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/volcan.htm
However, two sites below contradict one another.
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
http://www.gpswalker.cwc.net/volcan.htm
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Thank You
IIRC we did not have TFR at Cottesmore in 1966. In 1967 I was at Waddington and we definitely introduced it then. It is a fairly safe bet that it was fitted to the Cottesmore Wing in 1967, can’t remember when 12 disbanded. It was then fitted to all the Waddington Wing (Mk 2s only) and also presumably to the Scampton Wing. When Cottesmore moved to Akrotiri Bomber Wing was fully equipped.
Again, IIRC, there were no aircraft on Vulcan sqns between 1964 and 1970. Certainly at Akrotiri up to 1973 the aircraft belonged to the wing an not the sqn. Again I do not remember any special unit markings before Giant Voice and Big Top in the early 70s.
The Darwin picture of 1969 is interesting and would suggest that although the Waddington had TFR before that the fleet was still in transition.
At the time we seemed to wait for ever for small modifications. In retrospect the Vulcan 2 probably had more mods in short order than many other aircraft since.
In 1964 we had just about completed the switch from Gee 3 to Tacan. We still had STR18 HF and twin crystalized VHF boxes; we later got Collins and PTR 175. The rear crew seats were changed to swivel seats - a major mod. We got the HRS, Heading Reference System. The bomb was changed and we got an new panel, ER in place of the earlier EP. The NBS under went various mods, some hidden such as a change of internal relays, other like the Fishpool Mod, change of Calc 3a back to Calc 3, a reversion from Mk 21 to Mk 17 oxygen regulators. New G-meters. A new pitch director for the 2H (YS2) attack). Replacement of one S-band Red Shrimp for L-band. Replacement of Green Palm for the X-band jammer, a crude directional capability on the Blue Saga before it was replaced by the RWI. A dramatic change of Red Steer to Red Steer 2 with a between radar coverage. Addition of Rapid Blooming Window and Infra Red Decoys. Introduction of the 8000lb bomb bay tanks to recover range lost at low level. New fatigue meters. Green Satin replaced by Decca 72M and a new Radio Altimeter. And of course TFR.
As I said, at the time it seemed very slow. Indeed many trips had to be replanned as the aircraft fit was not compatible with the sortie plan. In retrospect, and looking at the battles to get DAS and fuel tank explosion suppression etc we certainly had an OR priority.
Again, IIRC, there were no aircraft on Vulcan sqns between 1964 and 1970. Certainly at Akrotiri up to 1973 the aircraft belonged to the wing an not the sqn. Again I do not remember any special unit markings before Giant Voice and Big Top in the early 70s.
The Darwin picture of 1969 is interesting and would suggest that although the Waddington had TFR before that the fleet was still in transition.
At the time we seemed to wait for ever for small modifications. In retrospect the Vulcan 2 probably had more mods in short order than many other aircraft since.
In 1964 we had just about completed the switch from Gee 3 to Tacan. We still had STR18 HF and twin crystalized VHF boxes; we later got Collins and PTR 175. The rear crew seats were changed to swivel seats - a major mod. We got the HRS, Heading Reference System. The bomb was changed and we got an new panel, ER in place of the earlier EP. The NBS under went various mods, some hidden such as a change of internal relays, other like the Fishpool Mod, change of Calc 3a back to Calc 3, a reversion from Mk 21 to Mk 17 oxygen regulators. New G-meters. A new pitch director for the 2H (YS2) attack). Replacement of one S-band Red Shrimp for L-band. Replacement of Green Palm for the X-band jammer, a crude directional capability on the Blue Saga before it was replaced by the RWI. A dramatic change of Red Steer to Red Steer 2 with a between radar coverage. Addition of Rapid Blooming Window and Infra Red Decoys. Introduction of the 8000lb bomb bay tanks to recover range lost at low level. New fatigue meters. Green Satin replaced by Decca 72M and a new Radio Altimeter. And of course TFR.
As I said, at the time it seemed very slow. Indeed many trips had to be replanned as the aircraft fit was not compatible with the sortie plan. In retrospect, and looking at the battles to get DAS and fuel tank explosion suppression etc we certainly had an OR priority.
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TFR
Question from an outsider who knows what TFR stands for, but never had the chance to have anything to do with the Vulcan....
Is the TFR the pimple on the front of the nose? And what was in there? Looks too small for X-band.
Is the TFR the pimple on the front of the nose? And what was in there? Looks too small for X-band.
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I remember the torrid time that we had on ECMSDF during the introduction to Red Steer 2 (or it might even have been getting Red Steer 1 to work properly). Anyway, the return springs broke with monotonous regularity. We trawled the country trying to find a manufacturer who could make springs of the right quality that would last more than a few hours.
Each manufacturer would come up with the goods, we'd put them on trial installations, run the kit up and they would go for ever. Contracts were drawn up, springs manufactured and issued and - bingo - bust within very short order.
What was happening was that the manufacturers samples were effectively hand produced and of superb quality. The mass produced ones were crap.
I presume that the problem was sorted. I moved from BCDU to Aden in spring (no pun intended) 67.
Each manufacturer would come up with the goods, we'd put them on trial installations, run the kit up and they would go for ever. Contracts were drawn up, springs manufactured and issued and - bingo - bust within very short order.
What was happening was that the manufacturers samples were effectively hand produced and of superb quality. The mass produced ones were crap.
I presume that the problem was sorted. I moved from BCDU to Aden in spring (no pun intended) 67.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avvulcan_2.html
As of 1965, the General Dynamics AN/APN-171 terrain-following radar (TFR) capability was fitted in a thimble radome on the nose. It provided up-down signals to the cockpit to help the machine hug the ground.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Without checking that site, I only have a vague recall of some of the TFR detail. It had a fixed 7 degree look angle so could handle aircraft drift angles up to 3.5 deg. This was just about OK in moderate winds at war speeds of 325k or higher. In peacetime training, at 220-240k and drift angles of 5 deg or more it could quite happily fly you into the side of a mountain. That was one reason why we did not TFR at night until some years after its introduction in to service. They were more concerned with confidence building than letting us have unrestricted use. At first, without TFR, we could low fly down to 500 feet. Once TFR trained we were cleared down to 300 feet.
The GSU believed that over a smooth sea it could fly you up to 100 feet low. It was not connected to the autopilot.
The kit worked, I have an idea, in the J-band.
It projected a beam ahead of the aircraft to 9000 feet. The beam depression angle was set by the terrain clearance height required. At 200 feet it would be full up. I don't recall how high you could set it. It had 3 lights. Green ON, Red Low and Amber High I think but BEags or someone will confirm that.
When it got something within range it would issue a flyup command. Once the aircraft climbed andthe beam rode clear the command would be flydown. I believe on problem was a tendency to balloon you over a hill - once, in Greece, we did just that - the Green remained on even though the pilot was actually hand flying and not TFing.
Next day we flew the same route, different pilot, TF at 500 feet and crested the same ridge at 50 feet as he overrode the flyup command.
Another time where the TFR could stuff you was flying across a series of ridge lines and valleys. It could fly you over the first and dive you in to the valley. As you bottomed out you would 'see' the other side of the valley. If the valley was deep enough and also narrow enough you could be going down when you should be going up or going up when you should have gone up sooner
. For that reason the plotter always ran a safety trace too.
The GSU believed that over a smooth sea it could fly you up to 100 feet low. It was not connected to the autopilot.
The kit worked, I have an idea, in the J-band.
It projected a beam ahead of the aircraft to 9000 feet. The beam depression angle was set by the terrain clearance height required. At 200 feet it would be full up. I don't recall how high you could set it. It had 3 lights. Green ON, Red Low and Amber High I think but BEags or someone will confirm that.
When it got something within range it would issue a flyup command. Once the aircraft climbed andthe beam rode clear the command would be flydown. I believe on problem was a tendency to balloon you over a hill - once, in Greece, we did just that - the Green remained on even though the pilot was actually hand flying and not TFing.
Next day we flew the same route, different pilot, TF at 500 feet and crested the same ridge at 50 feet as he overrode the flyup command.
Another time where the TFR could stuff you was flying across a series of ridge lines and valleys. It could fly you over the first and dive you in to the valley. As you bottomed out you would 'see' the other side of the valley. If the valley was deep enough and also narrow enough you could be going down when you should be going up or going up when you should have gone up sooner
. For that reason the plotter always ran a safety trace too.
Thread Starter
I'm pretty sure that the TFR used J-band.
The main problem, apart from drift angles at slow UK training speeds, was that people didn't understand the terrain limitations and tried to use it in mountainous terrain for which it was not cleared.
My night TFR check didn't last long. We'd just let down to low level and started the run when a light came on. "Bugger", I thought, "must be the TFR fail light". But no, it was the Main Warning amber lights. Then the captain announced that several PFCU lights were also on and asked the AEO WTF was going on - to be told that the entire no. 3 load busbar had failed. So off we went to Leeming, threw it on the ground, rang home, had a few beers whilst waiting for the bus, then snored our way back to sunny Scampton.
It turned out the jet had recently been serviced and ALL the no. 3 main 200v fuses in the power compartment had been incorrectly refitted.
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The main problem, apart from drift angles at slow UK training speeds, was that people didn't understand the terrain limitations and tried to use it in mountainous terrain for which it was not cleared.
My night TFR check didn't last long. We'd just let down to low level and started the run when a light came on. "Bugger", I thought, "must be the TFR fail light". But no, it was the Main Warning amber lights. Then the captain announced that several PFCU lights were also on and asked the AEO WTF was going on - to be told that the entire no. 3 load busbar had failed. So off we went to Leeming, threw it on the ground, rang home, had a few beers whilst waiting for the bus, then snored our way back to sunny Scampton.
It turned out the jet had recently been serviced and ALL the no. 3 main 200v fuses in the power compartment had been incorrectly refitted.
I do not endorse any goods or services described in any advertising which may have been included in this post without my agreement.
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IIRC this was some time about 1966 as I seem to remember an AEO Roy D*sn*y had the task once. Apparently the electric jet had a huge number of fused systems many of which were unused and others which were redundant. It could operate quite happily with u/s fuses. There was an annual check where every fuse was methodically pulled and checked by the AEO. The powers that be never wasted a moment using aircrew instead of engineers - great for morale. U/S jet? Send it away for a ranger, it will count as serviceable on the stats and the crew can fix it.
There was lots of very clever design work on the NBS - every dial and panel light was powered through a different circuit. If, for instance, the radar indicator dial lights were off then that indicated the failure of a particular fuse. If a box did not appear to be working then check a particular light. If the light was OK then the box was probably f*****d. If the light was out, change the fuse.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In 1964 we had just about completed the switch from Gee 3 to Tacan. We still had STR18 HF and twin crystalized VHF boxes; we later got Collins and PTR 175. The rear crew seats were changed to swivel seats - a major mod. We got the HRS, Heading Reference System. The bomb was changed and we got an new panel, ER in place of the earlier EP. The NBS under went various mods, some hidden such as a change of internal relays, other like the Fishpool Mod, change of Calc 3a back to Calc 3, a reversion from Mk 21 to Mk 17 oxygen regulators. New G-meters. A new pitch director for the 2H (YS2) attack). Replacement of one S-band Red Shrimp for L-band. Replacement of Green Palm for the X-band jammer, a crude directional capability on the Blue Saga before it was replaced by the RWI. A dramatic change of Red Steer to Red Steer 2 with a between radar coverage. Addition of Rapid Blooming Window and Infra Red Decoys. Introduction of the 8000lb bomb bay tanks to recover range lost at low level. New fatigue meters. Green Satin replaced by Decca 72M and a new Radio Altimeter. And of course TFR.
The aircraft were also painted several times over - the quick, cheap and cheerful dull camo, the high gloss polyurethane, the change to grey underside. The darker and later all over tones came in the 70s.
Three other mods spring to mind - the addition of the tail strike lamps, the change of the pitot heads for Rosemount Heads, and the change of the anti-cols which had been simple on-off whites to the slimline rotating reds.
And in the simulator, from a simple non-visual, non-dynamic to a visual and rumbling one at Waddo.
It was no wonder that crews went back every year to the OCU and BCBS for an annual refresher and reminder of the fleshspots of Rotherham and Donny.
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The TFR was a UOR buy in from General Dynamics from the F111 programme. The narrow look angle was necessary for the F111 to avoid it being given unnecessary flyup commands if it flew down a valley.
I am not sure about provision for the TSR2. It navigation radar was a side-scan system which would be used to update the nav-attack system after the fix point had been passed. I suspect that terrain avoidance was planned on a mission basis and not a dynamic process. Given that it was planned for weapons release down at 50 feet and mach 1.2 you would have thought it would have needed some form of forward looking system - FLIR based perhaps?
I am not sure about provision for the TSR2. It navigation radar was a side-scan system which would be used to update the nav-attack system after the fix point had been passed. I suspect that terrain avoidance was planned on a mission basis and not a dynamic process. Given that it was planned for weapons release down at 50 feet and mach 1.2 you would have thought it would have needed some form of forward looking system - FLIR based perhaps?
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Sorry. Try this,
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
http://www.clwb-cerdded-ystalyfera.i...ages/xh536.htm
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Forget, good link, thank you. There is a glaring error in the content though where it it stats that 606 was the 4th Vulcan to be produced.
What about the XH series, XJ series, XL series and finally the XM series. Does it perhaps mean the fourth batch of Vulcan's to be produced?
What about the XH series, XJ series, XL series and finally the XM series. Does it perhaps mean the fourth batch of Vulcan's to be produced?
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Milt, You asked, “What was the function of the springs and what would fail when one broke?”
Difficult to describe, but here goes! Red Steer was the fighter intercept warning radar housed in the radome at the back end of the aircraft. The AEO was the operator and had the display/control in front of him. The ‘area of interest’ behind the aircraft was a cone of about 60 degrees, centred rearwards from the centre line. The Mk I simple parabolic scanner sent out a very narrow beam but it needed to (rapidly) investigate every angle of sky within the cone. To do this the scanner started a cycle which began with the beam pointing directly aft then began a spiral to describe larger angled cones out to the limit. Once there it reversed the process to come back to dead astern, then began another cycle. This was a mechanical scanner and all this was done through electric motors, hinges, cams – and springs. The problem was, a complete cycle took under 2 seconds!
You really had to see a scanner operating in the workshop to understand the stresses it was under! The spiral springs, I think, about 4 inches long by a half inch, tried to keep everything ‘tight’ against the cams, and mechanically connected. They didn’t stand a chance! When they broke the scanner simply flopped with gravity - and looked at the ground you’d just flown over.
Difficult to describe, but here goes! Red Steer was the fighter intercept warning radar housed in the radome at the back end of the aircraft. The AEO was the operator and had the display/control in front of him. The ‘area of interest’ behind the aircraft was a cone of about 60 degrees, centred rearwards from the centre line. The Mk I simple parabolic scanner sent out a very narrow beam but it needed to (rapidly) investigate every angle of sky within the cone. To do this the scanner started a cycle which began with the beam pointing directly aft then began a spiral to describe larger angled cones out to the limit. Once there it reversed the process to come back to dead astern, then began another cycle. This was a mechanical scanner and all this was done through electric motors, hinges, cams – and springs. The problem was, a complete cycle took under 2 seconds!
You really had to see a scanner operating in the workshop to understand the stresses it was under! The spiral springs, I think, about 4 inches long by a half inch, tried to keep everything ‘tight’ against the cams, and mechanically connected. They didn’t stand a chance! When they broke the scanner simply flopped with gravity - and looked at the ground you’d just flown over.