Did You Fly The Vulcan?? (Merged)
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I have a pic of XM573 in its current state at the strategic air and space museum. Keep in mind I am not even a decent photographer. Anyway I dont have an account to post it online for everyone to see. I can send it to anyone who wants to look at at. Great thread, I loved seeing these Iron triangles fly when I was a youngling.
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Can remember tanking from a Vulcan over RAFG in the 80s. As we closed up to contact, my back-seater and I noticed what looked like half a wooden garden shed around the HDU assembly. It might have looked like something out of B&Q, but it certainly did the business. After the tanking we indulged in some "affil" with the great tin triangle from HL down to LL - what a magnificent beast.....
Thread Starter
I understand the crews termed it the 'MFI wardrobe'!
I found it much more comfortable in the F4 to prod against the Vulcan tanker than ever it was to prod against a Victor.
Apart from the time on JMC when the first prod was against a hard hose - got out just in time to avoid the whiplash! OK after a retrail though....
I found it much more comfortable in the F4 to prod against the Vulcan tanker than ever it was to prod against a Victor.
Apart from the time on JMC when the first prod was against a hard hose - got out just in time to avoid the whiplash! OK after a retrail though....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Interesting that the Vulcan was better tanker than the Victor. In the early days the Mark 1 as assessed as TFD because of downwash etc and the BK1 was not pursued. Similarly it was assessed as unsuitable as a PR platform so that option was not pursued either.
Maybe this was a question of vested interests at play?
Maybe this was a question of vested interests at play?
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a couple of questions concerning Western Ranger ex.
1-has anyone heard about Vulcans penertrating north american airspace
by flying at 0 feet up the st.lawrence river.
2-was a Vulcan lost during these exercises.
love the aeroplane since watching 4 of them do a tactical take off at
raf germany 20 anniversary airshow, definately the sound of freedom,
as the americans used to say.
1-has anyone heard about Vulcans penertrating north american airspace
by flying at 0 feet up the st.lawrence river.
2-was a Vulcan lost during these exercises.
love the aeroplane since watching 4 of them do a tactical take off at
raf germany 20 anniversary airshow, definately the sound of freedom,
as the americans used to say.
Timex:
I heard from a former CF-100 driver that during the early 60's they did it by flying at low level via Hudson Strait, Hudson Bay, James Bay and on southward over Ontario and onwards into the US. They then climbed to a sane altitude and announced themselves much to the consternation of all else concerned.
Looking at the configuration of the Dew, Mid-Canada and Pinetree Lines and using some inspired terrain masking it may well have been possible.
Interceptors close to the track would have been available from CFS Val Dor ( CYVO ) North Bay (CYYB ) and Ottawa (CYOW )
Whether this is true or not I do not know - but it makes a good story!
Some nice surfing can be found at:
Pinetree Line web: http://www.pinetreeline.org/
DEW Line web www.lswilson.ca/dewline.htm
Mid Canada Line web http://www.lswilson.ca/mcl.htm
I heard from a former CF-100 driver that during the early 60's they did it by flying at low level via Hudson Strait, Hudson Bay, James Bay and on southward over Ontario and onwards into the US. They then climbed to a sane altitude and announced themselves much to the consternation of all else concerned.
Looking at the configuration of the Dew, Mid-Canada and Pinetree Lines and using some inspired terrain masking it may well have been possible.
Interceptors close to the track would have been available from CFS Val Dor ( CYVO ) North Bay (CYYB ) and Ottawa (CYOW )
Whether this is true or not I do not know - but it makes a good story!
Some nice surfing can be found at:
Pinetree Line web: http://www.pinetreeline.org/
DEW Line web www.lswilson.ca/dewline.htm
Mid Canada Line web http://www.lswilson.ca/mcl.htm
Thread Starter
Exercise 'Skyshield' involved penetration of NORAD air space in 1961. This included Vulcans which landed at Loring, Stephenville and Plattsburgh (I think - 15 years before my time on Vulcans!).
'Western Rangers' were merely routine trips to Goose, then Offutt and included low level simulated bombing exercises. Each crew probably flew one Western Ranger per year (unless the Boss stole the trip - as was sometimes the case) and they were eagerly anticipated!
A small number of Vulcans were lost in the US over the years, but not during Exercise 'Skyshield'.
'Western Rangers' were merely routine trips to Goose, then Offutt and included low level simulated bombing exercises. Each crew probably flew one Western Ranger per year (unless the Boss stole the trip - as was sometimes the case) and they were eagerly anticipated!
A small number of Vulcans were lost in the US over the years, but not during Exercise 'Skyshield'.
a couple of questions concerning Western Ranger ex.
1-has anyone heard about Vulcans penertrating north american airspace
by flying at 0 feet up the st.lawrence river.
2-was a Vulcan lost during these exercises.
1-has anyone heard about Vulcans penertrating north american airspace
by flying at 0 feet up the st.lawrence river.
2-was a Vulcan lost during these exercises.
YS
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
In The Penetrators, I think the author was Gray, the aircraft was a Vindicator or similar name. On the Sky Shield exercise I believe the Vulcan ECM achieved a hard kill on the Norad sites as they had inadequate overload protection against high powered jammers.
As far as what we did on Western Rangers, the exercise that Beagle refers to was, I think, up to 10 days, and included flights on Oil Burner routes. The previous WR that I did in the mid 60s were purely high level and we were supposed to make 3 or so attacks inbound and outbound. Unlike UK the US used dedicated RBS - Radar Bomb Scoring units and Nike Missile sites. The latter had vulnerability periods when, I guess, they were open to give a random coverage across the Conus.
Problem for us was the Nike vulnerability often clashed with pubrise times at Offut and Goose. Two suitable RBS bombplots were Watertown and Hastings. Unfortunately the latter was west of Offutt by about 90 miles and the skipper called a fuel priority first time we had a go. Second time I got a good score there. Watertown likewise required a route deviation that p*ssed the AEO off as we had to leave the airway.
One trip (the good one) we had had the new target designations efficive 1 May and we were attacking on 4 May. As we ran in the RBSU queried our target and suggested we might have been going for a different one. They had not got the new target list. We quickly declared to old target teller and pressed on.
Their RBS patter was different from UK. If you tried to blag it - well you know the problems of language - OTOH spiel out their patter - Romeo 5 on target Charlie etc and you were quids in. Romeo 5 was a radar offset attack.
As far as what we did on Western Rangers, the exercise that Beagle refers to was, I think, up to 10 days, and included flights on Oil Burner routes. The previous WR that I did in the mid 60s were purely high level and we were supposed to make 3 or so attacks inbound and outbound. Unlike UK the US used dedicated RBS - Radar Bomb Scoring units and Nike Missile sites. The latter had vulnerability periods when, I guess, they were open to give a random coverage across the Conus.
Problem for us was the Nike vulnerability often clashed with pubrise times at Offut and Goose. Two suitable RBS bombplots were Watertown and Hastings. Unfortunately the latter was west of Offutt by about 90 miles and the skipper called a fuel priority first time we had a go. Second time I got a good score there. Watertown likewise required a route deviation that p*ssed the AEO off as we had to leave the airway.
One trip (the good one) we had had the new target designations efficive 1 May and we were attacking on 4 May. As we ran in the RBSU queried our target and suggested we might have been going for a different one. They had not got the new target list. We quickly declared to old target teller and pressed on.
Their RBS patter was different from UK. If you tried to blag it - well you know the problems of language - OTOH spiel out their patter - Romeo 5 on target Charlie etc and you were quids in. Romeo 5 was a radar offset attack.
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XH557 at Filton
Does anyone have any knowledge of the incident mentioned here:
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/1_group.../557stream.htm where a petrol station was apparently flattened by the jetwash from XH557 when the pilot aborted his landing and had to go around again?
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/1_group.../557stream.htm where a petrol station was apparently flattened by the jetwash from XH557 when the pilot aborted his landing and had to go around again?
Does anyone have any knowledge of the incident mentioned here:
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/1_group.../557stream.htm where a petrol station was apparently flattened by the jetwash from XH557 when the pilot aborted his landing and had to go around again?
http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/1_group.../557stream.htm where a petrol station was apparently flattened by the jetwash from XH557 when the pilot aborted his landing and had to go around again?
YS
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Vulcan B.2 XH557 16 September 1960
UK Flight Testing Accidents 1940-71
Derek Collier Webb
ISBN 0 85130 311 1
Gives the following account of this accident:
Delivery flight to Filton from Boscombe Down for engine handling trials with the Olympus B.01 21 engine. The aircraft had been allotted to Handling Sqn to enable flight trials to be undertaken to update the advanced issue Pilot's Notes. The Captain Flt Lt Wareham had 15 hours on type and the co-pilot Mr Frost none. After touching down fast, from an ACR 7 approach, 550 yards beyond the threshold on a flooded runway in moderate rain at Filton, the pilot applied the wheel brakes with no apparent effect. The drag parachute was then deployed but again no retardation was felt. Engine power was applied 600 yards from the end of Runway 10 and an overshoot executed, the aircraft was pulled off the ground 50 yards from the end of the runway. During the overshoot the aircraft struck a sodium light bursting four of the eight starboard bogie tyres and struck a commercial garage situated at the end of the runway, blowing all four petrol pumps away, damaging two cars, and hit the street lighting. As the aircraft climbed, the streamed brake parachute fell away. The aircraft then diverted to St.Mawgan and landed safely. The weather at Filton was marginal for the Vulcan especially using the ACR 7, which the captain had never before flown in a Vulcan. This had been compounded by the failure of the brake parachute to fully deploy.
Derek Collier Webb
ISBN 0 85130 311 1
Gives the following account of this accident:
Delivery flight to Filton from Boscombe Down for engine handling trials with the Olympus B.01 21 engine. The aircraft had been allotted to Handling Sqn to enable flight trials to be undertaken to update the advanced issue Pilot's Notes. The Captain Flt Lt Wareham had 15 hours on type and the co-pilot Mr Frost none. After touching down fast, from an ACR 7 approach, 550 yards beyond the threshold on a flooded runway in moderate rain at Filton, the pilot applied the wheel brakes with no apparent effect. The drag parachute was then deployed but again no retardation was felt. Engine power was applied 600 yards from the end of Runway 10 and an overshoot executed, the aircraft was pulled off the ground 50 yards from the end of the runway. During the overshoot the aircraft struck a sodium light bursting four of the eight starboard bogie tyres and struck a commercial garage situated at the end of the runway, blowing all four petrol pumps away, damaging two cars, and hit the street lighting. As the aircraft climbed, the streamed brake parachute fell away. The aircraft then diverted to St.Mawgan and landed safely. The weather at Filton was marginal for the Vulcan especially using the ACR 7, which the captain had never before flown in a Vulcan. This had been compounded by the failure of the brake parachute to fully deploy.
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Thanks very much indeed for that comprehensive (and authoritative) reply.
It is appreciated (and I've also got another book to add to my list of titles to lay my hands on
)
It is appreciated (and I've also got another book to add to my list of titles to lay my hands on
)
Can someone jog my memory? If I recall correctly (or perhaps not), 101 Squadron was represented at an RNZAF airshow at Ohakea in the mid-60s with a Vulcan (The same show where an RNZAF Sunderland did a slow (well, yes...), low flypast and grounded on the runway centreline)
Was 101 Finingley or Wittering based at the time? John Ramsden was STO at either (or both) stations, I believe.
Was 101 Finingley or Wittering based at the time? John Ramsden was STO at either (or both) stations, I believe.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Were all V-bomber crews commissioned?
I beg to disagree with Forget. It is true that for the major period the crews were all commissioned but I believe that some Valiants initially had NCA.
On my first Vulcan OCU in 1964 we had an ex-90 Sqn AEO who was now retreading to the Vulcan. 90 Sqn had I believe been an ECM Sqn, similar to Badger Js. I suspect that is because it was not nuclear armed and thus did not need commissioned aircrew.
The all officer crew was a political sop to allay fears of the public that nuclear bombs were only entrusted to responsible adults <g>.
I beg to disagree with Forget. It is true that for the major period the crews were all commissioned but I believe that some Valiants initially had NCA.
On my first Vulcan OCU in 1964 we had an ex-90 Sqn AEO who was now retreading to the Vulcan. 90 Sqn had I believe been an ECM Sqn, similar to Badger Js. I suspect that is because it was not nuclear armed and thus did not need commissioned aircrew.
The all officer crew was a political sop to allay fears of the public that nuclear bombs were only entrusted to responsible adults <g>.