Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.

Life in the penal colonies

Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.

Not all farmers, just some, like other parts of the community there are some that take advantage of everything cheap thinking it's best. I know a few other fruit growers that pay top dollar during picking season to ensure fruit is harvested quickly and in good condition, and they employ repeat pickers that come every season as they are reliable, some from the city. It's not easy work, but rewarding financially for those that do the job well and work for the right employer. The other option is to not care about quality and just employ cheap as possible, which is usually a sign of poor business acumen.

Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.

It should be noted that this was before or around the time our ICU techs were in VIC roughly 60% of them between WA and SA. These will not be infected a second time and that hasn't got anything to do with the health system or government in either state. Both states are aware they do know that.

The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.

I have a satellite photo somewhere of the wheat belt in harvest at night somewhere, it looks like the busiest place on earth

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.

Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.

The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

There will be plenty of jobs, these are employed by Grain Corp, they operate the weight bridge, silos, this is when the virus is most likely to get in and spread. It would be catastrophic.

Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.

You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest

Quote:

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3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021

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To be honest when I look at how we are travelling, I'm only interested in those that were infected, known to be suffering symptoms and died under the age of 70

I'll just re-post the same thing as you are quoting Reuters over the actual people who compile the data,

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest

Quote:

---

[size=13px]3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021[/size]

---

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN29J2TH

Did you actually read what that article says?

It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.

You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.

You seem to forget you just posted a link to a story that fact checked your own line and said it was false, you obviously are not even reading your own research well enough let alone be able to judge any other opinions.

You better stop thinking before that bean of yours implodes.

The 28 and 60 day cutoffs are made to exclude outliers to get better ideas when estimating numbers.

That is the definition most are working with and the cut-off (28 days) was implemented to avoid over estimations.

It seems there a difference between how NHS England records deaths with a COVID positive result and how the ONS records them. Since the NHS figures only include deaths in hospital, they are generally lower than the ONS figures. Lots of fun reading on the PHE methodology for those with time on their hands available at https://www.gov.uk/government/public...hnical-summary

You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)

England uses two methods of counting Covid deaths, PHE uses the 28 day list, to rapidly estimate numbers and ONS which is measured from actual data such as death certificates and such. PHE you must have tested positive to be included in the estimate regardless of certificate notice. At the early stages there was no time frame on PHE data, which recently caused it to blow out in numbers so they restricted it to 28 days and 60 days dependent on other factors. When compared to ONS data the PHE data is within 25%, as I stated earlier. So the documented death data and mortality statistics are definitely similar, anything beyond a few weeks old is going to be corrected by ONS data. The gov data has adjusted the statistics to show the 28 day data, but if you click on that the ONS data is readily available to reference.

Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.

Happy you bothered to mention me, and wasted some of your time, BTW I have no fear of covid, fully vaxxed and happily wandering around even in areas full of it. I'm just trying to reason with the concrete girders that have formed between some ears who continue to quote rubbish and use information that is obviously wrong.

But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.

PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.

Sorry 43,

meant to respond earlier but I have a life and I didn’t want to spend it on PPrune anymore than I wanted to live in fear.

Have a good weekend - spread some fear or whatever makes you feel worthwhile.

Not sure why I would spend all day on a forum, when I can pop in and out throughout the day and peruse what floof has been posted and fire off a quick reply.

In anycase I have done nothing but point out where the statistics come from. If you find the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) and what they do scary and live in fear of them, I'm truly sorry. I suppose some people are afraid of numbers and letters for some reason, it's quite obvious some can not interpret them clearly. :E

I must be a sucker for punishment because I find myself tuning in everyday to hear what Gladys has to say. Someone behind the scenes has managed to convince her that cases will peak in the next fortnight, and it didn’t in even pass the gross error test in her head. The NSW curve is just beginning, and even with 70% of the adult population vaccinated that still leaves 1.6 million people in greater Sydney of which the virus can rip through. The strain on the already overwhelmed hospitals will be immense.

I was thinking today perhaps an increase to the tax rate for non essential workers still able to work (mostly those working from home) to subsidise a properly distributed and revamped job keeper might be fairer on those of us unable to continue operating. Something like a 60% flat tax ought to do it.

perhaps a new tax on all those recently sold Sydney properties. And of course future sales. Investment property or not.

Sounds like a while since you were on a farm! Plenty of backpackers operating big harvesting machinery in all areas. Your description of neighbours working in teams sounds idyllic, but not widely adopted in modern times. With many farms using multiple harvesters or contract harvest operators, the owner is more likely to be found coordinating the process, marketing grain, and filling in where needed. Some smaller farms don’t even own a harvester. Too much $$$ siting in the shed for 10-11 months of the year. That said, your description reminds me of my late teens on our small family farm. Big brother in the harvester, the only vehicle with aircon, Dad moving bins and support equipment, and me hammering down dusty track getting as many 8 tonne truckloads in to the local silo as I could!

Its more the unskilled parts, like any sort of picking where they are used to imported labor that they have been able to exploit / scam for years. Now with the backpacker shortage farms / industry that have rep for fair employment are taking all the small pool of australians willing to work these jobs. I am doing banana's this year and got a good offer from a mango company thats desperate to get some guaranteed staff, but damn I hate mango's. The big harvesting contractors are considered essential workers and having minimal issues getting through borders

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

“Acting Premier Jeremy Rockliff, who is also the Health Minister, stressed that Tasmania would continue to follow the national plan, "but we want to ensure that every single person has the opportunity to be vaccinated in Tasmania".”

from the article YOU posted

Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.

Quotes from the Tasmanian Health Minister and Acting Premier on when they see the reopening happening?

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.



The article has a direct quote from the health minister in Tasmania. Not an analysis or an opinion piece, it is actually a direct report

Not if, unlike you, they can read.

The NT announced at 80% they’ll only consider moving the quarantined out of Howard Springs into home detention, hardly any extra freedom there, and the Chief Minister has said the wants more than 80% vaxxed to protect the indigenous in the Territory. SA said they’d look at “nuanced” arrangements post 80% and may still lockout individual LGAs from entry. The ACT wants “well over 80%” vaccinated. WA said once they get to 80% it’d be a gap of about 6 weeks to have a final chance for any stragglers to get a shot. Queensland may have the least clear messaging with suggestion they want kids, then maybe not, who knows. Then Tasmania came out and said they would prefer closer to 90% vaxxed. Victoria is too concerned with their own problems to really think about reopening to the rest.

So in reality it isn’t going to be a free for all the day the average vax rate hits 80%, every other State or Territory has indicated their reopening will be more staggered, more gradual than the “let it rip” idea some seem to think it will be.

I think even Gladys is wishful thinking now, NSW ICU will be at capacity in a week and that's double the capacity of any other state. How does she figure the peak will be in two weeks when the numbers are still rising.

The Gold Standard Girl, took some really bad advice from whoever told her that it would all be getting better in 2 weeks. Probably the same person that told her not to lock down after the first case.

Well when Victoria last year was in lockdown and NSW wasn't she WAS Gold Standard.

Amazes me the number of people who can't have an overview but, more importantly, dredge up the past just to have a whinge and a pissing contest; the future can only be directed by what is happening now and the actions that will be taken tomorrow and ongoing.
I would have thought the future was more important, to too many apparently not.

Much as I dislike Andrews credit where due - he's now admitting Covid Zero is impossible, what actions will follow time will tell but at least the basis has been reset to something realistic.
Whilst up north the incumbent Premier - with a 10+ seat majority and no election for 3+ years - is playing politics about borders which may lead some to delay having vaccinations, when Delta does hit be interesting to see how she deflects criticism about those who get Delta, who were sicker than they should have been, who ended up in hospital or ICU or died - when it need not have happened, or at least been lessened, with vaccination.

I disagree that there was ever any gold standard, there was luck last year that it didn't spread or start in the high population density suburbs. Melbourne got it in the west among the working population that spread it around town and got into the aged care facilities before they had procedures and standards to deal with covid.

This year the NSW government was pretty much negligent in the way it handled Delta. One month before NSW got its first case they were laughing at Victorias lockdown and calling Sutton the Vic CHO incompetent for suggesting Delta was far more transmissable and that they just had no idea. Sutton had suggested that only casual contact was required rather than the full 20 minute exposure that had been the case with the earlier strain. It was quite clear that NSW was playing politics in avoiding a lockdown and throwing mud at the Andrews gov at the same time. When they got the first case, they stubbornly held out to avoid immediate embarrassment that they had to lockdown also, and well, we all know how that went. And what else did they have to warn them, maybe the data from the rest of the world about Delta as well....

So when a lot of us criticise Gladys and co it's for good reason, we may well have been open and operating close to normal had NSW followed Vics advice rather than playing politics. BTW prior to NSW going ballistic with numbers Scomo was also agitating against lockdows, suddenly after NSW lost the plot he about faced and makes a speech that lockdowns are necessary until vaccinated.

Who needs the borders open anyhow when we have a “State Daddy” to worship on Fathers Day?


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....620a4b123.jpeg

So what advice has Dan followed this time??

Nothing he could do, locked it down, but the fall out from Sydney sent too many back into Victoria and spread it there. Delta was only controllable with a few cases in the community, the Sydney removalists spread it to several locations in Victoria plus some others moving interstate and it was all over. Now its way ahead of what contact tracing can do and lockdown is just plugging holes in the failing dam until the vaccination rate gets up.