Everyone is entitled to a holiday with their family even the PM, this was pre organized at the time and was only made a big deal by left wing f#$k tards.

Well said bro. All our pollies look absolutely forlorn and exhausted when ever you see them on tv.
The CTAF analogy was in relation to doing either 3 holding patterns then intercepting final 20 miles out.
No disrespect to you ATC folk.

I think it's the next level down that's the problem. Dept. Secretaries and the like earn almost as much, if not more, than the actual Pollies. They are the ones providing advice & guidance to the elected mouthpieces and some of them live in their protected Public Service bubble, without ever realising there's a world out there where you earn your pay through performance.

Probably right buster. Only 5 weeks to go.
I won't attached it here, but if someone needs a laugh (and we need a laugh) take a look at Youtube 'Bunnings ad for Karen'.

Pollies and senior public serpents need protection from the virus. No need for Hawaii, keep them in Australia there is a airstrip at Casey Station in Antarctica

and thus...Antarctica shall benefit from Victorian's Social Inclusion'

Agreed.

Apparently the Jetstar cancellation fees at the time were ridiculous.

It would have been a complete waste of taxpayers’ money to absorb those cancellation fees while his country was burning to the ground.

After all, the unpaid volunteer fire-fighters were eating into the budget.

He had no choice, when you think about it.

The criteria for easing the restrictions should be when the community transmission is reduced to below a published level, NOT a timeframe.

By stating a time, a lot of people will take that as meaning it will be all over after 6 weeks.
If people do not isolate as much as possible and be covidsafe, we could well be in the same position in 6 weeks as we are now.
I think that the attention span has been exceeding with a lot of the population.

It kinda slipped under the radar a couple of weeks ago in all the noise but the PM finally stated/ admitted that Australia's stated goal of "supression" actually means zero community transmission ie. if you expect the borders to open, the only permitted cases would be those in hotel quarantine, and you can expect the premiers will want to know exactly what that means in other jurisdictions going forward.

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...-transmissions

Most of the world would view this regime as eradication and an unreasonable goal. However, this is the standard Australian governments appear to have set. It's become apparent from Queensland's actions in relation to NSW that that's their interpretation, particularly in view of an upcoming election. Expect the borders to stay closed for a while.

Australia's states and territories might as well be 8 different countries now. It's remarkable to see states boasting of putting "tough" border policies in place against Australian citizens. "Stop the boats" seems to have become "Stop everyone". Crazy times.

It’s not so stupid.

Eradication (of community transmission that is, excluding inbound quarantine, provided steps are taken to ensure that quarantine actually works for a change) would be way better for the economy, because as soon as you have it, you can completely open the domestic economy, and also open bubbles with countries who also have it, such as NZ.

With eradication of community transmission, state borders would open, and domestic tourism would return to near normal (less the domestic tourism by international tourists, but increased by locals who would have otherwise traveled overseas). Schools, restaurants, pubs, bands, footy... all back to normal. Just a closed international border. Yes, there might be a lag in tourism and spending by those who have suffered job losses or lower incomes in recent times (often described as a “recession”), but I think economists might be surprised by the domestic surge in discretionary spending as soon as there is a positive sign in the domestic economy, and that it is actually “allowed” again. I have many friends who can’t wait for a big holiday - as soon as they are allowed to!

International students could even gradually come back, but just at a controlled rate with intensely controlled quarantine requirements.

To make it happen would require very hard and unpleasant restrictions, but a shorter term of unpleasantness might yield an improved economy in a shorter time frame than the current ongoing neverending uncertainty, which appears to be resulting in a very poor economy anyway.

Victoria is having a go, right now, and my personal opinion is that they are not going hard enough.

NSW is doing very little, and I suspect that will hurt NSW, and by extension, Australia.

To suggest that we would be better off, economically speaking, by just “living with it”, is to ignore what is happening in the rest of the world. A lot of the rest of the world is trying to just “live with it” and their economy is tanking far worse than ours. A good economist would have a good think about that.

Now, I’m not insensitive to the fact that I am suggesting this on a pilot website. There are many pilots, myself included, who want international borders opened, so we can all get back to work.

Well, we have bugger-all chance of getting back to work until we can sort out our own country. And that means opening state borders. So let’s sort out our own country out first. Only then can we look at international flying.

If that means going hard for community transmission eradication, then I am all for it. We should have done it months ago.

Economically speaking, that is our best bet.

Derfred -

Could not agree more.

I guess the frustration from my point of view is that leaders were running around spruiking "suppression, suppression, suppression" from March until mid-July but what did that mean? 10 cases a day, 50?, contact tracing and localised lockdowns? No-one in the broader community had any idea what that actually looked like until it was explicitly stated a couple of weeks ago. That's the first time I ever heard the phrase "zero-community transmission" and, like many of us, I've been following this pretty closely. I don't have any particular problem if eradication is the goal but the government should have made clear to the public early that its stated goal of "suppression", really meant eradication.

We may well have been there in early June with several days of zero cases reported in all states and territories, but systemic failures brought us undone. Worryingly, it means that everything needs to be perfect from here on. Harsh lessons have been learnt in relation to hotel quarantine. New Zealand fortunately dodged a couple of bullets in that area of vulnerability too. If the public are not on board, for example, if 15% of positive cases are still failing to self-isolate as evidenced by door-knocking in Victoria last week, then we are in for a very difficult time indeed.

Well said Derfred!

Although Dangerous Dan of Victoria will be judged harshly and rightly so, mostly we have seen good leadership by the authorities here while other countries encumbered with incompetent leaders have been a train wreck - the USA being the classic. Mistakes in the early days were made by all, as no one really understood the full impact of the virus until it already got a hold, but we learned quickly. All except some in Victoria anyway...but they have long suffered from a disproportionately lawless society.
ScoMo has had the good sense to back away from insisting that W.A., S.A. and Tas need to open their borders.

Victoria went harder than all States (fining young people having driving lessons etc) , but the carrying out of its Hotel Quarantine policy, refusal for offered military assistance, weak response to BLM demonstrations (that caused a “it must be alright” attitude amongst the general population) let it down.

Your premise that They are not now doing enough doesn’t ring true. There are no international arrivals needing to be quarantined, there is a nightly curfew, permits are required if you need to go to work, you can only leave home for an hour a day to exercise, you can be arrested for not wearing a mask and employers will be fined if you needlessly go to work.

i wonder what more you think should be done....perhaps 24 hour lockdown, Tanks in the street, armed soldiers patrolling with orders to shoot those out and about?

Your comments re Scomo being on Christmas break during the Fires (they were State responsibility btw) actually give good arguement for getting rid of State Government's, that episode showed that a Federal response is far more effective than that led by the States in their individuality.

It is an interesting exercise to compare the headlines with what is actually happening in the world.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/t...hs-per-million

Sweden vs. US

Uk vs. Brazil

Australia vs. Venezuela...(Venezuela wouldn't under report, would they?):hmm:

Victoria went hard at it in name only. There was a lot of tough talking without substance to follow it.

On the ground, some sectors of the community were ignoring the requirements and were not being punished for doing so.

Some other states took non-compliance much more seriously than Victoria. The crackdown has come in Victoria but it was too late.

For all the negativity that was flung at WA, it has made the right decisions.

WA has made the right decisions for WA only, and to hell with the rest of the country.

McGowan was whinging about all those positive results from "the eastern states", without mentioning that the vast majority of international arrivals came through those eastern states after he had a dummy spit about the number of arrivals through Perth and got that cut back to some ridiculously low percentage. He is now, effectively, holding several of my colleagues hostage in WA as if they were to dare leave WA to, you know, to maybe be with their families they haven't seen since February/March, they will not be allowed back into WA. No entry = no work = no pay, conversely, there are several more of my colleagues who want to get in to get back to work, and you guessed it, no entry = no work = no pay. Never mind the fact none of them are in a Covid hotspot, "they're from NSW/Vic so they're carrying The Pestilence"...

About time WA realised they need to carry their share of the load.

Think they are doing their share of the heavy lifting actually... someone has to keep the lights on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._state_product

[QUOTE=Square Bear;10857042]
I wonder what more you think should be done....perhaps 24 hour lockdown, Tanks in the street, armed soldiers patrolling with orders to shoot those out and about?


Does have that East German feel to it. Nothing like trying to jump that wall into NSW/QLD. Our Charlie is now check point Albury.
On a serious note at least cases are starting to drop slowly in Vic. Last 6 days the trend started at 714, then a series of low 400s, 386, and today 323.
What is that community transmission reduced published level? What model is Dan basing his numbers too? Wish he could tell us.
The numbers in Mexico (that's the real mexicans; people) have gone absolutely nuts. Yesterday was 6500 cases and 700 deaths.

Once again, he's holding onto the modelling...

Some strange cats in WA. Don't mention you're from the East Coast if you want to make friends anywhere North of the 'big smoke'. Just say you're from down South and they'll assume PER.

I do suspect that I can guess exactly 'wot' he is holding onto...................

Any Takers..?????????

Cheeerrrsss............................

Playing hardball with state borders seems to be the new normal.

It seems to be heading in the direction that they will remain closed until December 31. With conditions attached on travel the day they open.

The PM would not speculate dates when asked today but just forecasted ‘probably summer’.

You may have missed it..but our Premier in WA said yesterday that our border may stay closed for another year!!!

Don't you love how one man, who is not even an elected official, can stop 14.5 million people from entering a state - and none of those ~15M people have any legal recourse to challenge that decision? That this one man can dictate terms to over half the country is an affront to both the concept of a nation and our constitution that protects freedom of movement between the states and freedom of disability or discrimination based on your state.

The longer this goes on the more frustration will take place. Victorians will start to get anxious about everything in life, jobs/relationships/finance as I heard
callers on talk back radio today. All state premiers have subtlety jibed each other, last week Josh Fry has basically said fix the bloody problem Dan your holding me up.
You can see the tension and you can see they are all under pressure. The barbs could get worse as we go on. A lot is at stake in these next 5 weeks. I know 601 you mentioned it's not a time frame.
However were homo sapien, creatures of the social variety and being locked in for 23 hours and some shopping within 5km and curfew from 8 will start to do your head in. More frustration will accumulate.

The press conferences are just dower. Just a numbers game. How about bringing in a herbalist, natural path, (Jenny and Brett) to provide ideas how to improve your immune system.
What a dam good idea?
Have you ever listened to the House of Wellness Gerald Quigley a week ago he even aired some good studies in zinc/magnesium/Vit D. Well how interesting.
All the draconian restrictions does nothing but lower your immune system. Now that's a bad idea. Why, because of the emotional/physical/chemical stresses which also leads to eating too
much junk food, those chains outlets remain open, funny that in a pandemic. Good model this one.

He said they could not put a date on easing border restrictions, it could be a month or it could be a year link here for one article. Interesting quote tho "Mr McGowan has previous ruled out a travel bubble with other states which have maintained low cases, and says the eastern states will have to eliminate community spread before he will consider lifting border restrictions".

As for QLD, I believe they will remain closed definitely until November after the election and realistically until it has been eradicated in NSW and Victoria so get ready for potentially years of this, Aviation will now be by far biggest hit at the end of this. With no vaccine on the horizon and if there were would you inject it?! I know I wouldn't.

Except for the 150 vaccine candidates in clinical trial, including the front runner oxford vaccine which has shown a strong antibody and T cell immune response as well as no adverse side effects.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/oxford-c...an-trials-show

Perhaps we have different definitions of 'on the horizon' or perhaps you take joy in being a doomsday soothsayer, but if a vaccine is 6-12 months away, I would call that on the horizon.

And yes, if it has passed all the clinical trials, I wouldn't have an issue taking it.

Definitely not a doomsday sayer more I’ve been optimistic with my colleagues with this. The time has come to be realistic also on the severity of the situation the suppression/eradication boat has long sailed in NSW and VIC it will not happen unless we stop international arrivals and do a full lock down in NSW along with VIC, as no one wants to learn to live with it that’s only option. I just hope AJ 3 yr plan still include me in it, along with my colleagues.
WA can support domestic travel with in their own border QLD they can also. As for the rest of the states we can’t. word is international travel won’t be allowed until 2022 now, unless there is a vaccine or eradication Domestic will not return anytime soon, I can’t see it coming back this yr.
I hear you with those vaccines I also have been keeping an eye on what’s going on, but, I’m sure their own country like (UK) for Oxford or (USA) moderna will fast track approval but what’s the bet Australian approval will not be so quick without proper research and testing no one will sign off on its use in Australia.
Next big question, how do current airlines operating in WA and QLD keep their pilots current without having to fork out 14 days of hotel accomodation upon their return! Virgin could very well be the only airline flying in QLD as they have a sim in Brisbane, no idea where Alliance is.

Get ready for back to the future. A few decades ago you had to present a yellow-covered international health record of vaccinations. No jab, no fly. Pretty simple. I can imagine that the government (and airlines, for that matter) to require evidence of vaccination to cross state borders. Certainly international ones.

Australia does not require local stage three testing for medicines for what should be obvious reasons. That’s what peer reviewed science is for, and federal approvals in the jurisdictions of invention. Just like aircraft type certificates haven't been (pre-max) second guessed for 25 or so years now.

Already a number of African countries require a Yellow Fever vaccination card before allowing entry into their country. This will just extend with Covid. Countries will not permit entry of non-vaccinated travelers which will need to be supported by a vaccination card or passport stamp and insurance companies will refuse to cover them. You can be an anti-vaxxer but you'd better be one that doesn't want to travel.

My airline still requires all crew to have the little yellow booklet showing all our vaccinations. Agree with the sentiment above that the (to use an already tired term) 'new norm' will have international (or even interstate) travellers to be vaccinated, and hence for the yellow book to be needed again. No inoculation, no travel. At least that would bring our industry a bit of much needed normalcy.

Fuel-Off :ok:

Wow. Auckland back on Stage 3 tomorrow. Rest of NZ stage 2.

Outbreaks incoming...

And NT closing borders for the next 18 months!!!

I have never been into conspiracy theories.. but the way this thing pops up
with no known source .. it’s almost like there are ‘ sleeper agents’ that are dropping it into the population.

Gunner is just trying to show some authority. I think most of our friends in the NT can see through his BS.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...wednesday.html
Struth 4 cases. Lockdown stage 3 for only 3 days.
So if Jacinta was Victoria's premier we would need to get to 4 cases for stage 3 to occur. Wow just wow.

Crisis over everyone. Russia has a vaccine.

Let me guess a shot of vodka into the arm.

Absolute incredible over reaction, but it’s the rod that it seems politicians on both sides of the Tasman have made for their own backs. It’s the only reaction available to them after all their complete eradication rhetoric.

You may well be right, wheels down. However, as a counterpoint, if I put a post on here a year ago, describing what is going on now .. you would have said I was full of BS.

The news from NZ shows complete eradication does not work. Thus lockdowns don't work. It's proven. End of story. I wonder if Dan can understand this.
Engage plan B. Hope he's got one.