Sounds like you've had the pep talk already BP ;) how do you reckon that will work for a married guy with kids ? and if Tiger Oz are flush for Captains at the end of 2 years are they just going to (A) absorb the extra (B) demote the existing Oz Captains or (C) make you wait til a spot available ( I choose (c)

John this is only true for people out of the country for less than 183 days ( plus some other bits the commies, I mean Labour introduced ) and if you earn money in a country that has no tax treaty. With the Tiger SIN roster there will be no issue with spending more than 183 days out of Oz and it would be for at least 2 years. I work in HK and I can assure you I am not paying Oz tax.

Just remember when considering this " golden " opportunity the AUD is significantly stronger than SGD ( 1AUD = 1.22SGD ), cost of housing, car, medical and education 20-30% higher in SIN.

Cheers

Basically;

If you're single it's worth taking. You will come out well ahead due to lower tax rates in Singapore. International flying experience around S.E. Asia, India and China goes down well in the log book. Experience a different culture and do some traveling around, beats SYD-MEL any day. If you watch the expenses and don't spend all your money on the SPGs you'll have a nice little nest egg to take back.

If you're married with no children bear in mind the wife is unlikely to earn as much as she could in Australia unless she has a highly skilled job. Singapore has access to cheap foreign labour and unions are weak eg. Checkout operator in a supermarket S$1200 a MONTH.

If you're married with children, do your sums VERY carefully. An international school will run S$1800-2500 per month, per child. Local schools available for pennies with a good standard but on the British system. See Singapore Expats - Expat relocation, Singapore property, housing, working, staying in Singapore. Singapore property rental / sale, Singapore apartment for rent, Singapore condo for rent, Singapore house for rent for useful budgeting info.

No Pep talk, just seems pretty obvious to me. Personally i would rather have cheap, interesting, cultured places like that at my disposal than the "Trashy" Gold Coast, "Exciting" Canberra etc.

Probably not so well, so if that's your situation don't do it, they're not forcing anyone. But if you're a young f/o with no flying experience outside of Australia, why not? You'll have a Sing licence, work permit, previous flying experience there, maybe you wouldn't have to come back to Tiger Oz. No one's being forced into anything.

Don't exactly know how that will work but i know with previous base transfers that have occured, as soon as a spot is available you have first preference over a new hire or upgrade. And with the amount of aircraft Tiger are supposed to be getting even if you're not back 2 years to the day it wont be that far off...

"Supposed" to be getting being the operative word........

Actually, I think you would come out well ahead because of the promotion, which is admittedly the case here. A tiger skipper in Oz is financially better off than his SIN counterpart tho.

Take it from someone who's experience in Asia amounts to a bit more than a couple of 2 week holidays in Bali.....you can do without the sort of " excitement " you get up here.:ugh:

Therein lies the rub, why do they need pilots to go to SIN ? because the conditions are relatively rubbish, and while pilots keep jumping at these deals they will never improve ( if you think it's a good deal, take a look at CX, KA, Korean, Vietnam T&Cs )

Both of which you lose the minute you leave ( SIN validation, not licence )

Not necessarily. After tax a skipper in Singapore will have more money in his pocket. How he decides/needs to spend it will determine whether he is better off. A single bloke taking it easy can save far more than he would be able to at home. A married bloke putting three children into the Australian International School and driving a medium size car will be going backwards.

Singapore is far safer than any major Australian city, there aren't any 'no go' areas. Your family are perfectly safe on public transport late at night, there are no drug pushers hanging around the schools. Plenty of excitement available nearby if you're not careful though, get into an argument with a local in a night club in Vietnam, get arrested by the Thai police on a trumped up charge or get mugged in Johur Bahru and you will wish you were
somewhere else.

Good idea IF your current experience level allows it. If not then give it a couple of years and you could be looking at something better. Many turbo prop drivers now in jobs they wouldn't have got without their time in Tiger.

A validation is issued only to do the circuits required for the licence issue. Pilots fly on a full Singapore licence. Keeping it current may be an issue if you leave the country and no longer work for a Singapore company. Employment Pass is cancelled when you leave, you can apply for a five year Personal Pass allowing you to change employers and have up to six months between jobs. Permanent residence may also be applied for if desired.

here's that link again :

IT 2650 - INCOME TAX: RESIDENCY - PERMANENT PLACE OF ABODE OUTSIDE AUSTRALIA (As at 8 August 1991)

I disagree. It is not this simple.

Please look at some examples in this document :

IT 2650 - INCOME TAX: RESIDENCY - PERMANENT PLACE OF ABODE OUTSIDE AUSTRALIA (As at 8 August 1991)

Here are some listed examples from the above document :

If you are a resident, then you are not exempt from paying Australian tax :eek:

Have a look at this part
Examples of residents and non-residents

Basically try to be Bronwyn. Obviously easier if you're single, but if you:
1. Stay away for an extended period
2. Establish a home overseas with your family.
3. Don't have accommodation available in Australia.

Then you should qualify as a non resident.:)

However if you:
1. Spend significant time in Australia.
2. Maintain a home there.
3. Have a wife/children living and working or attending school in Australia.

Then you will probably get caught in the tax net.:{

Cathay pilots who took Australian bases with their families, while claiming residence in Hong Kong know all about this. :ooh:

Don't think there is to much tax on S$3000 per month.

See here..

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far...1-tiger-3.html

Is there any truth in the rumour that Tiger is going to open a Sydney base ?

Is there any truth in the rumour that Tiger is going to increase their salaries for pilots and stick to the 4 on 3 off 4 on 4 off ?

The Oz roster pattern was 5 on 2 off, 5 on 4 off.

I don't know anything about 4-3, 4-4

John, point taken but it sounds like all the examples given were employed by Oz companies ?
Don't worry tho, if labour get back in I believe one of their goals is to tax expats, like the U.S., I mean how else are they going to fund all their blunders and spending ;)

Metro, the " excitement " I was referring to was the flying, I'll take boring old Oz over " exciting " Asia anytime, snow, typhoons, monster T/S, lousy controlling ( yes, make SYD look good ) with lousy english and frequent long delays.

Cheers

OK so they are going to take one aircraft out of AD and one out of ML to base them in AV and cancel the two new ones that were suposed to arrive in November. Where does this leave all the wannabies that have done endo's, some as far back as February, in anticipation of a job??????
SN

I would say the company will take them on anyway and just carry them through until the expansion finally comes in 2017.

As Shelleys said - they are the fastest growing airline in Australia!!!

Late news, boys and girls, but according to a certain state manager, the Adelaide base will close in mid November, with all staff having to relocate, including to overseas bases. What is it with Adelaide, not supporting viable crew basing?:(

Just relocate to a new company that doesn't open and shut bases like most people change their underwear.

Why would you do it to yourself. Better off overseas.

Good night tiger...
 

Good night Tiger...was nice to have you along for the ride but I think the end is nigh in OZ.

Yes Doris, the end is nigh with their 10th aircraft arriving....:hmm:

b.

Doris

Wrong time of the year for you to talk about airlines failing.
Give up on Ansett you said thing.
It was a long time ago and some just can't give up on the past.
Drink up on that bottle of gin on Monday night and enjoy.

Tiger Airways isn't Ansett Australia.

Hell, even put that Hostie uniform on at 5 am on Monday morning, like you have for the past 8 years.

God bless you Princess.

So any more on Tiger pulling the pin on Adelaide? Maybe they will take the aircraft from there and use them to start a new base??? Adelaide really is the backwater of Aussie aviation hey!
SN

SN its the backwater of Australia in every way possible, Tasmania has more going for it, at least they make decent beer is Tassie.:ok:

ADL hasn't got a good record for Crew bases.

Jetstar
Qlink
Tiger

All started then left if my memory serves me correct.

So you are left with

Alliance
Rex

Wonder if VB will ever have a go?

Seems like they haven't finished trying everything else first!

Looks like Tiger has found a new goldmine- Cairns

SN its a possibility. There is no benefit in crewing in Adelaide when it can be done from Melbourne. ADL-SYD can be crewed from Melbourne as what ADL-ASP/HBA flights were up until a few months ago. But their deal with the SA Government might prevent this.

My Bet is if any of the 4 is going to go under it's gonna be Tiger, financially they are in their deathbed, keep bleeding how long can they lose blood?
As long as their founders can continue to dish out pathetic returns for the investors thats the truth. Lets see how long the Singa masters can endure losses! haha!

Hmm...last time I checked the company had wiped most of its debts, has two profitable companies as of this date, raised 200m recently.

There is no blood to lose unless another carrier comes to town like AirAsia.

They ain't here to make a profit. They're here to annoy the crap out of QF.

Don't hold your breath waiting for them to bleed out. The only reason Tiger are here is to ratlle the Rat due to its foray into Tiger country with JQ. Pure and simple. SQ have some depth to their money tin and are quite happy to play some games in AUS while QF poke around in their Asian backyard.
Remember - " It's all a game. A very serious game, but all a game".

I think SQ realise they are a lost cause when long range aircraft bypass their pathetic country. They are trying to weasel out other revenues while they realise their own model is dead, SIN is a backwater it is all Middle East these days. I would love to see SQ survive without passengers, Singaporeans are less than a 1% of total pax on their airline.

You are going to turn blue !

We can't lose face can we.....

When Tiger announced a tie up with TG there was an uproar in Thailand (still is)........ the Thai people don't like it for some reason, and NOK the low cost model part owned by TG wanted nothing to do with it, possibly something to do with an ousted ex Thai prime minister. Thaksin who sold his Thai phone company (tax free) to a Singaporean company called Tesamek run by the Singaporean prime ministers wife at the time... (who departed soon after the deal was done.)

For me Singabore looks great at 35000 ft, you can see everything in a couple seconds, settle back and think about how many dollars plus plus you have saved by sitting on your wallet with a beautiful sunset view.......

Aircraft #10 goes on line here in December. Seems the show is still on the road.
SN

There will still be a need for hubs unless these long range aircraft can be filled up with point to point passengers. Possible on SYD - LHR. But Adelaide - Bombay, Perth - Athens, Melbourne - Chang Mai ? I doubt it and these are all easily available through Singapore.

The Middle East hubs are the best positioned but some routes will still be shorter via Singapore. On some routes there will be direct competition with little if any time advantage. Some people will prefer to fly SQ and some will prefer EK. SQ still haven't resorted to deep discounting, their fares are usually among the highest, as are their load factors and their profits.

Singapore is hardly a backwater, being positioned in the fastest growing region on earth. Remember this tiny country was bailing out the rest of the world during the financial crisis.

Three and a half million citizens, one and a half million foreigners. No natural resources, can't produce enough food or water for the population yet;

1. Eleventh largest foreign exchange reserves in the world. Foreign exchange reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2. Set to be the fastest growing economy in the world in 2010 Channel NewsAsia - Singapore set to be world's fastest-growing economy in 2010 - channelnewsasia.com

3. Highest number of millionaires per capita in the world We Are Wealthier Than Switzerland | Salary.sg - Your Salary in Singapore

These guys must be quite smart to have done all this with so little, don't write them off just yet. :rolleyes:

Yes and no, in many cases they were bailing out themselves crying foul. Having said that SQ is in good shape on the routes that you discussed to the Middle East. When I lived in Singapore it doesn't take long to work out that the media in Singapore is government controlled, it always paints rosy economic pictures about itself.

From the aviation perspective Singapore has done a fantastic job with infrastructure, terrific airport and maintenance facilities but these days has become very expensive for some airline operations.

As I see it, Thailand is a much more viable situation for JQ say BKK/VTBS as a base for direct services to Europe, The Middle East & Northern Asian ports. There is Talk the old DMK (Don Meaung) still operational may open up again to a limited amount of international flights based the LCC factor... (a strong rumour unconfirmed)

Back to TGW trying to team up with TG for a low cost operation is probably a good concept as Thailand does offer more lucrative traffic rights to other destinations, the problem is Thai Air Asia and Air Asia are well established making it difficult for TGW to establish itself as well. If Tiger are bleeding in Australia as has been suggested then I wonder if the start up costs for their Thai adventure will make them bleed even more?

Chiang Mai CNX is a very underutilised airport and reasonably well equipped to handle JQs proposed long haul flights onward, I am sure that the Thai government would welcome JQ with open arms.

If it is JQs intention to set up bases in S E Asia I believe Thailand would provide better value for money live in expenses for relocated crews if paid the proposed Singapore package. (talked about elsewhere on these pages) I say this as I think many pax flying to Europe would prefer the stop in SE Asia a little further down the road than SIN. From what I hear long haul passengers prefer the 9 hour flight to BKK ex SYD or MEL than the shorter haul to SIN as it makes the connecting leg to Europe a much longer flight.

My example is based when QF re routed QF5/6 from via BKK to via SIN extending the flight hours on the leg to FRK.

Not long after this move EK 418/9 picked up the slack DBX via BKK direct to SYD - NZ now daily events with high load factors.. At the time QF stated that there was not enough traffic via BKK and better to consolidate Singapore as the major hub for all QF flights. I am not convinced to this day QF made the right move regarding BKK.

Having said all of the above, I believe that JQ is better positioned than TGW to quickly establish itself as a major player in S E Asia. Trust that JQ consider the value of their existing Tech/CCs who I believe have directly helped J* be so successful.

Singapore would be a more attractive place for western crews to live compared to Thailand. Less of a culture shock, better infrastructure, political stability, lack of corruption, use of English, quality education and health care etc. As long as the pay package reflects the high cost of living.

Changi Airport just needs to price itself competatively bearing in mind the Singapore approach of "Better where we can't be cheaper and cheaper where we can't be better"

Don't confuse the business plans of the ME carriers and that of SQ/Tiger.
The heavily subsidized ME carriers have created a lot of Aus-Europe traffic, helped along by the strong A$.

The Australian had a great article yesterday on the Chindia economic revolution and Australia's dependence on it. That's the market that SQ is poised to tap. JQ to Buchanan's credit is also trying to do this, but will probably be stopped by the myopic attitude of Australian organized labour.

No doubt we will argue and fight using our Euro-centric logic that for some reason we deserve European/American wages, when our economy is dependent on Asia and all our competitors are based there.

I'm glad my kids are not in aviation, sadly Australian aviation is probably headed the way of Carreier Pigeon.

Well Roo if Australian wages followed this pilots, Tiger Aussie salaries would be hugely increased! They are by any yardstick (for a first-world airline) appalling. On a global basis Tiger and JG pilot salaries are rotten.

And all our competitors in Asia?

I don't understand why people always assume Asian salaries are low. It just isn't correct.

However I too am glad my kids aren't in aviation, there are too many "smart" managers trying to cut terms and conditions and too many pilots who allow it to happen that it's just not a career that's worth it.

Cheap flights in Australia | Jetstar takes a gamble in airline war

Be interested in the progress, with the belief

Branding winners and losers | 2010 brand winners and losers | The Australian

May have something to do with the image problem.