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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 02:18
  #1461 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gas Chamber
Funny how all the obvious management goons on here disappear when voting is closed/nothing happening.
howís it going Nathan Safe?
LOL

All the management goons are away on holiday with their family as they can afford it.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 04:22
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Originally Posted by speedbird concorde
Funny how you are the one keeping this thread going through quiet times? A bit bored are we?
Only one cohort would prefer the pilots cease talking about them. The transfer of ideas during this so called negotiation has been very bad for Qantas management and itís about time. We should be talking!
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 04:30
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Originally Posted by speedbird concorde
Funny how you are the one keeping this thread going through quiet times? A bit bored are we?
Keep in mind the fight at Network is just the foreshock with the main quake to come later this year at the mothership. Thereís plenty of excitement to come!
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 10:57
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Originally Posted by speedbird concorde
Funny how you are the one keeping this thread going through quiet times? A bit bored are we?
whoís bored trolling through my past posts.
🙄
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 12:29
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Originally Posted by PrunePete
Keep in mind the fight at Network is just the foreshock with the main quake to come later this year at the mothership. Thereís plenty of excitement to come!
Not while weíve got AIPA having high level conversations discussing concepts rather than specifics.

I hear the wine is good if you take it on the other side though.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 12:39
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Join the AFAP Juggernaut. Time for new management in QF.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 13:19
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Originally Posted by morno
Woah, settle down old fella. I think youíd be happy to know the AFAP membership for mainline pilots is growing significantly every week. AIPA might wake up to this one day and find a change is needed.
Well I am glad to see this, hopefully soon the only AIPA members will be management goons. Then AIPA can rename the union to FUTURE AIRLINE GOON MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION (FAGMA)😂
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 20:14
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Originally Posted by morno
Woah, settle down old fella. I think youíd be happy to know the AFAP membership for mainline pilots is growing significantly every week. AIPA might wake up to this one day and find a change is needed.
Why? So far AFAP have not delivered anything yet. Letís see if the FWC determination gives the pilots a substantial improvement beyond what they had previously agreed with the company, otherwise AFAP will have achieved nothing tangible.


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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 21:41
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So a genuine question?

What happens if the FWC signs off on what the pilots believe to be sub par result- example being say 200k for a skipper and 150ish for an FO (very ballpark) salaries. The cohort arcs up and is still not happy, Alliance over in Perth can only take so many newcomers. So a lot of the Network people will be staying on disgruntled and unhappy right? And yes, its a fact that MOST Perth people don't like leaving Perth!

Its hard to go and have a sit-down chat with Fairwork to explain that when doing Pilbara runs that there are mining moron's (dumb dumb's/ drillers, labourers) and girls that do nothing more than clean a room and do camp stuff for 180k with nil prior investment into education or experience? Pilots on the other hand have considerable resources invested into themselves and by the company, stress of checks each year where by one's job is essentially on the line with Sim's and line checks and also some very fatiguing roster pairings.

Do I think that is fair- Nope.

So what happens if the FWC is also somehow linked to Qantas, say with perhaps some individuals on that committee having significant shareholding (50-150k or there abouts) or memberships at the prestigeous Chairmans Lounge sipping Claret with the likes of Penny Wong, Albo and his boy? Is this something that is vetted for a fair outcome?

I really want this to be a massive win for the Network workers as it sets an enormous precedence for the rest of the sector/ industry, but I think that there will be many sinister ploys at play here to restrict what the outcome will be. I think what Network/ Qantas management did with basically waiting out the workforce with nil pay on PIA on there behalf was well played- unconscionable- but a strong move (we all have bills to pay). It's like Ants against a kid with a magnifying glass, when he's bitten a few times he just crushes (or drowns) the ants and moves on.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 22:37
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Originally Posted by Skippy69
So a genuine question?

What happens if the FWC signs off on what the pilots believe to be sub par result- example being say 200k for a skipper and 150ish for an FO (very ballpark) salaries. The cohort arcs up and is still not happy, Alliance over in Perth can only take so many newcomers. So a lot of the Network people will be staying on disgruntled and unhappy right? And yes, its a fact that MOST Perth people don't like leaving Perth!

Its hard to go and have a sit-down chat with Fairwork to explain that when doing Pilbara runs that there are mining moron's (dumb dumb's/ drillers, labourers) and girls that do nothing more than clean a room and do camp stuff for 180k with nil prior investment into education or experience? Pilots on the other hand have considerable resources invested into themselves and by the company, stress of checks each year where by one's job is essentially on the line with Sim's and line checks and also some very fatiguing roster pairings.

Do I think that is fair- Nope.

So what happens if the FWC is also somehow linked to Qantas, say with perhaps some individuals on that committee having significant shareholding (50-150k or there abouts) or memberships at the prestigeous Chairmans Lounge sipping Claret with the likes of Penny Wong, Albo and his boy? Is this something that is vetted for a fair outcome?

I really want this to be a massive win for the Network workers as it sets an enormous precedence for the rest of the sector/ industry, but I think that there will be many sinister ploys at play here to restrict what the outcome will be. I think what Network/ Qantas management did with basically waiting out the workforce with nil pay on PIA on there behalf was well played- unconscionable- but a strong move (we all have bills to pay). It's like Ants against a kid with a magnifying glass, when he's bitten a few times he just crushes (or drowns) the ants and moves on.
A great many Network employees arenít overly tied to Perth and FOs genuinely struggle to make ends meet so may be left with no choice but to leave even if that involves commuting. My prediction is that people will go even if the resulting contract is good and theyíll go in even larger numbers in the scenario you described. I could be wrong but I donít think people are as welded to Perth as the stereotype would have you believe.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 23:05
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The sooner everyone associated with the Ďgroupí realises that AIPA isnít what it used to be, the better. AFAP have no skin in the game, they donít want management jobs or have mates in current management, theyíre totally independent. Like many others have said, one union to represent pilots would be ideal and that sadly shouldnít include AIPA anymore, AIPA have lost their way.
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Old 2nd Apr 2024, 23:48
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For the moment, I agree with dr dre. What has the AFAP PIA achieved? Serious question.
I really hope the Network guys get something good out of this, but Iím unsure all the love for the AFAP is deserved. It seems it just cost people money. You would have ended up in the FWC anyway.

NS is a creep. Karma will get him.

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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 00:18
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
For the moment, I agree with dr dre. What has the AFAP PIA achieved? Serious question.
I really hope the Network guys get something good out of this, but Iím unsure all the love for the AFAP is deserved. It seems it just cost people money. You would have ended up in the FWC anyway.

NS is a creep. Karma will get him.
You have witnessed the steam rolling the pilots receive at EA time havenít you? PIA may not have yielded any tangible results, yet, but preventing Qantas from ramming a bad deal up our asses is very powerful. As was quite accurately pointed out to me in a previous post, there have been at least two instances where a favourable agreement was met without PIA. Two out of hundreds is a very piss poor track record on Qantasí part.
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 00:49
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Sure, but continuing to vote no would have yielded the same result, without the loss of income. We're all angry, but I don't see what it achieved.
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 01:03
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Originally Posted by smiffysarmy
The sooner everyone associated with the Ďgroupí realises that AIPA isnít what it used to be, the better. AFAP have no skin in the game, they donít want management jobs or have mates in current management, theyíre totally independent. Like many others have said, one union to represent pilots would be ideal and that sadly shouldnít include AIPA anymore, AIPA have lost their way.
I think you'll find it depends on the pilot council, AFAP pilot council at Sunstate used to be very chummy with management and extra incentives outside the EBA would benefit those individuals. Those FOs would nearly be the worst paid in the country.

The AFAP represents 98% of Sunstate
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 01:14
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Originally Posted by Skippy69
So a genuine question?

What happens if the FWC signs off on what the pilots believe to be sub par result- example being say 200k for a skipper and 150ish for an FO (very ballpark) salaries. The cohort arcs up and is still not happy, Alliance over in Perth can only take so many newcomers. So a lot of the Network people will be staying on disgruntled and unhappy right? And yes, its a fact that MOST Perth people don't like leaving Perth!

Its hard to go and have a sit-down chat with Fairwork to explain that when doing Pilbara runs that there are mining moron's (dumb dumb's/ drillers, labourers) and girls that do nothing more than clean a room and do camp stuff for 180k with nil prior investment into education or experience? Pilots on the other hand have considerable resources invested into themselves and by the company, stress of checks each year where by one's job is essentially on the line with Sim's and line checks and also some very fatiguing roster pairings.

Do I think that is fair- Nope.

So what happens if the FWC is also somehow linked to Qantas, say with perhaps some individuals on that committee having significant shareholding (50-150k or there abouts) or memberships at the prestigeous Chairmans Lounge sipping Claret with the likes of Penny Wong, Albo and his boy? Is this something that is vetted for a fair outcome?

I really want this to be a massive win for the Network workers as it sets an enormous precedence for the rest of the sector/ industry, but I think that there will be many sinister ploys at play here to restrict what the outcome will be. I think what Network/ Qantas management did with basically waiting out the workforce with nil pay on PIA on there behalf was well played- unconscionable- but a strong move (we all have bills to pay). It's like Ants against a kid with a magnifying glass, when he's bitten a few times he just crushes (or drowns) the ants and moves on.
If fairwork signed off on a **** deal with no T&Cís improvements then Network pilots would likely be better off on the award. Most likely they would apply to have the EA dissolved. This would result in better working conditions than the current EA. The pay, however, would be worse.

Either way, at 200k most Network captains would be better off as FOís at other operators, so they would leave for this. More days off, same pay.
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 01:25
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Originally Posted by SandyPalms
Sure, but continuing to vote no would have yielded the same result, without the loss of income. We're all angry, but I don't see what it achieved.
Prior to the PIA I saw and heard management types in the office singing their own praise about how happy all the people were at NAA. They are so disconnected from the line crew itís concerning.

After PIA never again can ANY manager say the pilots are happy. The sentiment is clear now and canít be denied. Does this translate to more pay? Not sure but Iím happy to sacrifice a small amount of cash to make my position clear. Every single office type needs to wake the **** up and realise if the status quo is maintained with regards to crew engagement things will continue to get worse.

A doctors certificate for every sick dayÖ pft! No problem sir. Just for that Iíll be sure to use em all!
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 01:44
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Originally Posted by TooManyPineapples
Iím happy to sacrifice a small amount of cash to make my position clear.
Wow. And that folks is the state of this industry in Australia.
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 01:55
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Not sure that a determination by FWC would actually allow an EA to be worse off than the current ratified EA.
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Old 3rd Apr 2024, 02:10
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher
Wow. And that folks is the state of this industry in Australia.
How?

(extra words)
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