Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Network EBA

Old 21st Mar 2024, 02:26
  #1301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 57
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by framer
Excellent. Now you’re starting to sound like a line pilot.

Excellent. Let’s do that then aye instead of using 45hrs which, you have to admit, makes it seem like a pretty good gig.
How many hours a month are you in uniform or in a donga, or on call?
I provided my duty hours above and also said on the A320 I do very few all day flights, as a trainer I don't do that many standby duties. Rostered a couple month. I can only comment on my own roster but I am well aware that for the F100 there is a significantly larger number of all day flights for them.
I Need Of A Change is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 02:30
  #1302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 114
Received 94 Likes on 26 Posts
Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
I think it is viewed as a win for Qantas as they tend to come out with a result in their favour. If the pilots are directed to take the deal on offer then Qantas will view this as a massive win. Of course pilots will leave but Qantas doesn’t seem to care about that, we all hope that the determination gives Qantas a bit of a bloody nose but there is a risk it won’t.
Cant see that ever happening. Fair Work would be crucified by media and the public if they were seen to be supporting the biggest abuser of staff and passengers. Also, if big corp were successful in one of the first high profile IB cases it would open the door for every EBA negotiation to end up in FWA. EA negotiations would be near impossible and the public service couldn’t weather the storm. It’s in FWA best interests to rule in favour of the employee to force corps to negotiate in good faith.
ActiveLooker is offline  
The following 5 users liked this post by ActiveLooker:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 02:54
  #1303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 57
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
Don’t you mean “we”?

You keep forgetting you’ve stated you are a Network Pilot
I’m well aware who my employer is. By “they” I am referring to the company.
I Need Of A Change is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 03:09
  #1304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: NSW
Posts: 89
Received 40 Likes on 17 Posts
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
if big corp were successful in one of the first high profile IB cases it would open the door for every EBA negotiation to end up in FWA.
Given that either party can apply for IB, the same is true if the determination fell significantly the way of the employees. I’d expect minimal changes with neither side being able to claim the outcome was a ‘win’ for exactly the reasons you have outlined.
ddrwk is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 03:34
  #1305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: A semi-detached 3x2
Posts: 250
Received 239 Likes on 82 Posts
Originally Posted by ddrwk
Given that either party can apply for IB, the same is true if the determination fell significantly the way of the employees. I’d expect minimal changes with neither side being able to claim the outcome was a ‘win’ for exactly the reasons you have outlined.
I don’t necessarily disagree that that will be the outcome but I do disagree with the argument. The chances of an employee group sticking together to be in a position to apply for IB are far more remote than that being the case for an employer. It is the employer who proposes a deal and if they thought fair work would help them get something sub-market through, the queue for determinations would stretch around the block. Employees’ resolve usually starts to crumble when the back pay figure gets above a certain amount, school fees are due, the car blows a head gasket, etc, etc.
walesregent is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 03:52
  #1306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,094
Received 179 Likes on 75 Posts
Given that either party can apply for IB, the same is true if the determination fell significantly the way of the employees. I’d expect minimal changes with neither side being able to claim the outcome was a ‘win’ for exactly the reasons you have outlined.
Well that's a win for the employer in this instance as it will be a well below market rate EA. The question then is where to from there.
If that were to occur, ultimately the commission is washing their hands of the whole deal and challenging the pilots to all resign if they want something to resemble a market salary.
Now I'm guess both the commission and QF are gaming that the pilot's don't have the intestinal fortitude to do that.

However it would be an interesting situation to put both company and the commission into if the entire pilot work force resigned en-mass if the commission came down with a sub market EA ruling.
neville_nobody is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by neville_nobody:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 05:44
  #1307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,925
Likes: 0
Received 267 Likes on 118 Posts
However it would be an interesting situation to put both company and the commission into if the entire pilot work force resigned en-mass if the commission came down with a sub market EA ruling.
Plenty of us saw what happened last time someone tried that.
Icarus2001 is offline  
The following 2 users liked this post by Icarus2001:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 06:05
  #1308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: M.I.A.
Posts: 216
Received 19 Likes on 8 Posts
Pretty sure Qantas would re-task a few Mainline and subsidiary jets and life would go on.

Except for the 200 or so unemployed Network pilots.
Bug Smasher Smasher is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 06:12
  #1309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Anvya
Posts: 152
Received 49 Likes on 21 Posts
No comment on mass resignations , not sure it work out for Qantas if they sacked 200 WA pilots and replaced them with more expensive east coast pilots and equipment . I’d imagine any request for help from WA government would fall on deaf ears and the people of WA might vote with their feet across to Virgin .
KAPAC is offline  
Old 21st Mar 2024, 06:14
  #1310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 1,073
Received 776 Likes on 207 Posts
Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher
Pretty sure Qantas would re-task a few Mainline and subsidiary jets and life would go on.

Except for the 200 or so unemployed Network pilots.
Pilots can still resign in large numbers and not be unemployed. The market is very different to what it was in 19xx. That fear campaign is dead.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
The following 6 users liked this post by gordonfvckingramsay:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 07:24
  #1311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,094
Received 179 Likes on 75 Posts
Originally Posted by KAPAC
No comment on mass resignations , not sure it work out for Qantas if they sacked 200 WA pilots and replaced them with more expensive east coast pilots and equipment . I’d imagine any request for help from WA government would fall on deaf ears and the people of WA might vote with their feet across to Virgin .
No QF won’t be sacking anybody. Ultimately they get the win with both a below market EA in AND a PR win as they didn’t force anybody to do anything it was the commissioner you see. If you have a problem with the salary go and complain to them. It would set a terrible precedent for pilots and probably be the beginning of the end of the profession in Australia.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 21st Mar 2024 at 10:26.
neville_nobody is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 07:55
  #1312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hell
Posts: 14
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
From the latest AIPA Insights 21 March 2024

From the latest AIPA Insights 21 March 2024:

What is clear from the recent casual catch-ups with our members is the depth of feeling that remains regarding how the Company has and continues to treat their pilots.

Interestingly though, the feelings aren't necessarily homogeneous, with the depth of emotion varied across bases, fleets and ranks. However, it continues to reinforce what we at AIPA have long suspected and continue to explain to Qantas management at every opportunity.

For many, those feelings manifest as frustration, whilst for others it is anger. It feels like years of industrial attacks have seen these emotions become intertwined with the DNA of the pilot body, as you wait for the long-promised change in attitude and behaviour to arrive.

You remain unsure of your value to the organisation, despite the platitudes and cookies.

Yet a quick glance at a few statistics regarding forecasted global pilot demand and the number of new commercial pilots being created in this country, tells you that the quicker Qantas takes advantage of the resource within its grasp the better.

Let’s start with the forecasted global demand from Boeing. May I preface these statistics by saying that clearly Boeing has an interest in pumping up required pilot numbers but even if they inflate the numbers, they remain significant. Also, these numbers assume no seismic geopolitical events or Qantas announcing we are flying to Chicago, as the earth tends to fall off its axis every time that idea is mooted.

Boeing predict that from 2023 until 2043, global demand for new pilots will reach 649,000. The Oceania region is forecast to need 10,000 new aircrew, the Middle East 58,000, North America 127,000 and the Asian region a whopping 250,000.

According to the most recent Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) annual report the number of CPL/ATPL holders in Australia is around 12,500 (5700 CPL/6800 ATPL). This number has only increased by 1000 in the past ten years. The other concerning statistic is the number of new CPLs being issued each year, with only 350 CPL licences issued in the last 12 months, if you exclude those licences upgraded to ATPLs or issued to foreign students.

Like any complex problem, the reasons for the waning interest in the profession are many and nuanced. However, one significant factor has been the driving down of wages through the creation of various subsidiaries, which, when coupled with the ever-increasing costs of obtaining flying qualifications - now in the vicinity of $150,000 - has reduced the attractiveness of the profession.

A profession that now finds itself facing a future where supply will not keep up with demand. The numbers simply don’t lie.

We are all seeing the signs, the various canaries in the mine shaft. Subtle proposals for modifications to the A220 contract for NJS pilots to try and stem the continued pilot attrition, Jetstar unable to fill command positions, Jetconnect feeling the pinch as Air New Zealand ramp up recruitment across the ditch, the Network dispute out west and Emirates running roadshows in Australia whilst the rumours of bases in Australia for Qatar and Emirates continue to grow.

The long talked about pilot shortage may not be here yet, but the jungle drums beat louder every day.

The challenge is can those leading the Qantas Group recognise the pilot labour challenges before them and decide that genuine reform of the industrial landscape is needed. Reform to safeguard the asset that is their pilot community. Do they seek band aid solutions to stem the bleeding, or do they recognise the value of actually healing the wound?

AIPA continues to be “in the room” discussing this issue with Qantas management, suggesting solutions that ensure a vibrant aviation sector in this country for decades to come. Solutions that recognise your increasing value as the pilot global pool shrinks.

Qantas needs to discard previous industrial ideology to ensure this country has enough pilots to meet projected demand and to protect these assets, including you, from looking overseas for better opportunities, no matter what stage of your career.

Whether those in leadership positions within the company see the value in safeguarding their pilots rather than parking aircraft against a fence is for them to decide. But they can’t say they didn’t know or weren’t warned.

As we demand better leadership from Qantas management, equally we need to expect more from ourselves. We need to work together to ensure that when the pilot shortage crystalizes, we as a collective are ready to recognise our true worth.

Each of us needs to ask ourselves what small part will I contribute to the continued success of my association. What are you prepared to do to be part of the solution?

Can you nominate for CoM, or contribute to a portfolio (you don’t have to be a CoM to do that), or identify an area that AIPA can improve and help us achieve that? It may even be as simple as remaining highly engaged with what AIPA continues to achieve for you all.

We need all of our members to not only identify potential problems but to help AIPA fix them. We need to work together to strengthen our association. Stronger together is the only answer.

The time is now when Qantas needs to genuinely value its pilot workforce and understand that it must pay globally competitive wages to safeguard its ability to deliver the services expected of it by the Australian travelling public.

It needs to provide globally competitive wages to avoid having its workforce pillaged by foreign entities who have already grasped the value of not parking aircraft against a fence.

Only by standing side-by-side as a pilot community, can we work together to realise the value of our own worth and be rewarded for our expertise and professionalism. United we bargain, divided we beg. It is that simple.

The "industrial flexibility" supposedly created by having multiple pilot entities is now becoming a rod for the company's back. Will those now in charge be prepared to make the necessary change to attract and retain the pilots required over the next 20 years and beyond?

The pilot shortage both in Australia and globally, whilst gathering pace, remains at arm’s length to a certain degree. It is easy for decision makers to convince themselves it may not arrive or will be someone else’s problem in the future beyond the current bonus schedule.

However, now is the time for Qantas to change its business model of the past 15 years, a model that fundamentally damaged the profession, and instead work with their pilots to provide prosperity and security moving forward to safeguard the aviation industry.

In a country where aviation is a necessity, we have seen the piloting profession placed into a spiral dive. Time will tell whether those leading Qantas today adopt the mantra of “recognise, confirm, breathe” before ultimately deciding to “recover”.
wf747 is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by wf747:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 08:50
  #1313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 114
Received 94 Likes on 26 Posts
Originally Posted by wf747
From the latest AIPA Insights 21 March 2024:

What is clear from the recent casual catch-ups with our members is the depth of feeling that remains regarding how the Company has and continues to treat their pilots.

Interestingly though, the feelings aren't necessarily homogeneous, with the depth of emotion varied across bases, fleets and ranks. However, it continues to reinforce what we at AIPA have long suspected and continue to explain to Qantas management at every opportunity.

For many, those feelings manifest as frustration, whilst for others it is anger. It feels like years of industrial attacks have seen these emotions become intertwined with the DNA of the pilot body, as you wait for the long-promised change in attitude and behaviour to arrive.

You remain unsure of your value to the organisation, despite the platitudes and cookies.

Yet a quick glance at a few statistics regarding forecasted global pilot demand and the number of new commercial pilots being created in this country, tells you that the quicker Qantas takes advantage of the resource within its grasp the better.

Let’s start with the forecasted global demand from Boeing. May I preface these statistics by saying that clearly Boeing has an interest in pumping up required pilot numbers but even if they inflate the numbers, they remain significant. Also, these numbers assume no seismic geopolitical events or Qantas announcing we are flying to Chicago, as the earth tends to fall off its axis every time that idea is mooted.

Boeing predict that from 2023 until 2043, global demand for new pilots will reach 649,000. The Oceania region is forecast to need 10,000 new aircrew, the Middle East 58,000, North America 127,000 and the Asian region a whopping 250,000.

According to the most recent Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) annual report the number of CPL/ATPL holders in Australia is around 12,500 (5700 CPL/6800 ATPL). This number has only increased by 1000 in the past ten years. The other concerning statistic is the number of new CPLs being issued each year, with only 350 CPL licences issued in the last 12 months, if you exclude those licences upgraded to ATPLs or issued to foreign students.

Like any complex problem, the reasons for the waning interest in the profession are many and nuanced. However, one significant factor has been the driving down of wages through the creation of various subsidiaries, which, when coupled with the ever-increasing costs of obtaining flying qualifications - now in the vicinity of $150,000 - has reduced the attractiveness of the profession.

A profession that now finds itself facing a future where supply will not keep up with demand. The numbers simply don’t lie.

We are all seeing the signs, the various canaries in the mine shaft. Subtle proposals for modifications to the A220 contract for NJS pilots to try and stem the continued pilot attrition, Jetstar unable to fill command positions, Jetconnect feeling the pinch as Air New Zealand ramp up recruitment across the ditch, the Network dispute out west and Emirates running roadshows in Australia whilst the rumours of bases in Australia for Qatar and Emirates continue to grow.

The long talked about pilot shortage may not be here yet, but the jungle drums beat louder every day.

The challenge is can those leading the Qantas Group recognise the pilot labour challenges before them and decide that genuine reform of the industrial landscape is needed. Reform to safeguard the asset that is their pilot community. Do they seek band aid solutions to stem the bleeding, or do they recognise the value of actually healing the wound?

AIPA continues to be “in the room” discussing this issue with Qantas management, suggesting solutions that ensure a vibrant aviation sector in this country for decades to come. Solutions that recognise your increasing value as the pilot global pool shrinks.

Qantas needs to discard previous industrial ideology to ensure this country has enough pilots to meet projected demand and to protect these assets, including you, from looking overseas for better opportunities, no matter what stage of your career.

Whether those in leadership positions within the company see the value in safeguarding their pilots rather than parking aircraft against a fence is for them to decide. But they can’t say they didn’t know or weren’t warned.

As we demand better leadership from Qantas management, equally we need to expect more from ourselves. We need to work together to ensure that when the pilot shortage crystalizes, we as a collective are ready to recognise our true worth.

Each of us needs to ask ourselves what small part will I contribute to the continued success of my association. What are you prepared to do to be part of the solution?

Can you nominate for CoM, or contribute to a portfolio (you don’t have to be a CoM to do that), or identify an area that AIPA can improve and help us achieve that? It may even be as simple as remaining highly engaged with what AIPA continues to achieve for you all.

We need all of our members to not only identify potential problems but to help AIPA fix them. We need to work together to strengthen our association. Stronger together is the only answer.

The time is now when Qantas needs to genuinely value its pilot workforce and understand that it must pay globally competitive wages to safeguard its ability to deliver the services expected of it by the Australian travelling public.

It needs to provide globally competitive wages to avoid having its workforce pillaged by foreign entities who have already grasped the value of not parking aircraft against a fence.

Only by standing side-by-side as a pilot community, can we work together to realise the value of our own worth and be rewarded for our expertise and professionalism. United we bargain, divided we beg. It is that simple.

The "industrial flexibility" supposedly created by having multiple pilot entities is now becoming a rod for the company's back. Will those now in charge be prepared to make the necessary change to attract and retain the pilots required over the next 20 years and beyond?

The pilot shortage both in Australia and globally, whilst gathering pace, remains at arm’s length to a certain degree. It is easy for decision makers to convince themselves it may not arrive or will be someone else’s problem in the future beyond the current bonus schedule.

However, now is the time for Qantas to change its business model of the past 15 years, a model that fundamentally damaged the profession, and instead work with their pilots to provide prosperity and security moving forward to safeguard the aviation industry.

In a country where aviation is a necessity, we have seen the piloting profession placed into a spiral dive. Time will tell whether those leading Qantas today adopt the mantra of “recognise, confirm, breathe” before ultimately deciding to “recover”.
What a typical AIPA update. No wonder you all move into management with such long winded dribble saying basically nothing. From what I hear AIPA only
represent a handful of management suck ups at NA and are even losing members to AFAP at QF Mainline.
ActiveLooker is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:03
  #1314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,393
Received 476 Likes on 240 Posts
Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Pilots can still resign in large numbers and not be unemployed. The market is very different to what it was in 19xx. That fear campaign is dead.
Then they should resign in large numbers and go off and get a life with a decent lifestyle. What's the point in hanging on in quiet desperation?

The likes of Qantas get away with what they do because there's a seemingly endless supply of pilots who'll accept whatever crap conditions are dished up, in the hope that 'eventually' the company - or presumably the FWC - will 'do the right thing'. There should be a unit called "Child-Like Naivety" in the CPL/ATPL syllabus.

You're just factors in production to the beancounters. The beancounters therefore spend their days trying to get as many of you commodities as cheaply as practicable.
Lead Balloon is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:09
  #1315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: DEMOCRATIC PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA (DPRWA)
Age: 32
Posts: 127
Received 250 Likes on 74 Posts
Originally Posted by wf747
From the latest AIPA Insights 21 March 2024:

What is clear from the recent casual catch-ups with our members is the depth of feeling that remains regarding how the Company has and continues to treat their pilots.

Interestingly though, the feelings aren't necessarily homogeneous, with the depth of emotion varied across bases, fleets and ranks. However, it continues to reinforce what we at AIPA have long suspected and continue to explain to Qantas management at every opportunity.

For many, those feelings manifest as frustration, whilst for others it is anger. It feels like years of industrial attacks have seen these emotions become intertwined with the DNA of the pilot body, as you wait for the long-promised change in attitude and behaviour to arrive.

You remain unsure of your value to the organisation, despite the platitudes and cookies.

Yet a quick glance at a few statistics regarding forecasted global pilot demand and the number of new commercial pilots being created in this country, tells you that the quicker Qantas takes advantage of the resource within its grasp the better.

Let’s start with the forecasted global demand from Boeing. May I preface these statistics by saying that clearly Boeing has an interest in pumping up required pilot numbers but even if they inflate the numbers, they remain significant. Also, these numbers assume no seismic geopolitical events or Qantas announcing we are flying to Chicago, as the earth tends to fall off its axis every time that idea is mooted.

Boeing predict that from 2023 until 2043, global demand for new pilots will reach 649,000. The Oceania region is forecast to need 10,000 new aircrew, the Middle East 58,000, North America 127,000 and the Asian region a whopping 250,000.

According to the most recent Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) annual report the number of CPL/ATPL holders in Australia is around 12,500 (5700 CPL/6800 ATPL). This number has only increased by 1000 in the past ten years. The other concerning statistic is the number of new CPLs being issued each year, with only 350 CPL licences issued in the last 12 months, if you exclude those licences upgraded to ATPLs or issued to foreign students.

Like any complex problem, the reasons for the waning interest in the profession are many and nuanced. However, one significant factor has been the driving down of wages through the creation of various subsidiaries, which, when coupled with the ever-increasing costs of obtaining flying qualifications - now in the vicinity of $150,000 - has reduced the attractiveness of the profession.

A profession that now finds itself facing a future where supply will not keep up with demand. The numbers simply don’t lie.

We are all seeing the signs, the various canaries in the mine shaft. Subtle proposals for modifications to the A220 contract for NJS pilots to try and stem the continued pilot attrition, Jetstar unable to fill command positions, Jetconnect feeling the pinch as Air New Zealand ramp up recruitment across the ditch, the Network dispute out west and Emirates running roadshows in Australia whilst the rumours of bases in Australia for Qatar and Emirates continue to grow.

The long talked about pilot shortage may not be here yet, but the jungle drums beat louder every day.

The challenge is can those leading the Qantas Group recognise the pilot labour challenges before them and decide that genuine reform of the industrial landscape is needed. Reform to safeguard the asset that is their pilot community. Do they seek band aid solutions to stem the bleeding, or do they recognise the value of actually healing the wound?

AIPA continues to be “in the room” discussing this issue with Qantas management, suggesting solutions that ensure a vibrant aviation sector in this country for decades to come. Solutions that recognise your increasing value as the pilot global pool shrinks.

Qantas needs to discard previous industrial ideology to ensure this country has enough pilots to meet projected demand and to protect these assets, including you, from looking overseas for better opportunities, no matter what stage of your career.

Whether those in leadership positions within the company see the value in safeguarding their pilots rather than parking aircraft against a fence is for them to decide. But they can’t say they didn’t know or weren’t warned.

As we demand better leadership from Qantas management, equally we need to expect more from ourselves. We need to work together to ensure that when the pilot shortage crystalizes, we as a collective are ready to recognise our true worth.

Each of us needs to ask ourselves what small part will I contribute to the continued success of my association. What are you prepared to do to be part of the solution?

Can you nominate for CoM, or contribute to a portfolio (you don’t have to be a CoM to do that), or identify an area that AIPA can improve and help us achieve that? It may even be as simple as remaining highly engaged with what AIPA continues to achieve for you all.

We need all of our members to not only identify potential problems but to help AIPA fix them. We need to work together to strengthen our association. Stronger together is the only answer.

The time is now when Qantas needs to genuinely value its pilot workforce and understand that it must pay globally competitive wages to safeguard its ability to deliver the services expected of it by the Australian travelling public.

It needs to provide globally competitive wages to avoid having its workforce pillaged by foreign entities who have already grasped the value of not parking aircraft against a fence.

Only by standing side-by-side as a pilot community, can we work together to realise the value of our own worth and be rewarded for our expertise and professionalism. United we bargain, divided we beg. It is that simple.

The "industrial flexibility" supposedly created by having multiple pilot entities is now becoming a rod for the company's back. Will those now in charge be prepared to make the necessary change to attract and retain the pilots required over the next 20 years and beyond?

The pilot shortage both in Australia and globally, whilst gathering pace, remains at arm’s length to a certain degree. It is easy for decision makers to convince themselves it may not arrive or will be someone else’s problem in the future beyond the current bonus schedule.

However, now is the time for Qantas to change its business model of the past 15 years, a model that fundamentally damaged the profession, and instead work with their pilots to provide prosperity and security moving forward to safeguard the aviation industry.

In a country where aviation is a necessity, we have seen the piloting profession placed into a spiral dive. Time will tell whether those leading Qantas today adopt the mantra of “recognise, confirm, breathe” before ultimately deciding to “recover”.

The days of goodwill and diplomacy are over! Militancy is the only solution! This is what happens when you breed militants...
Zeta_Reticuli is offline  
The following 7 users liked this post by Zeta_Reticuli:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:23
  #1316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Oz
Posts: 269
Received 182 Likes on 86 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Then they should resign in large numbers and go off and get a life with a decent lifestyle. What's the point in hanging on in quiet desperation?
I don’t think it’s any trade secret that a large chunk of the pilot body are looking at other options, regardless of what deal is put up. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it’s clear a considerable proportion have interviews coming up, or are waiting for the right opportunity.

The damage has been done and the medium to long term outlook for this subsidiary is very grim.
nomess is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:29
  #1317 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,393
Received 476 Likes on 240 Posts
And that's as it should be. If the subsidiary goes broke, that's the 'market' doing its job as a result of the failure by the subsidiary to pay, adequately, one factor in the production of what the subsidiary is trying to sell. That factor in production has gone elsewhere to earn more for less effort.
Lead Balloon is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by Lead Balloon:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:38
  #1318 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: A semi-detached 3x2
Posts: 250
Received 239 Likes on 82 Posts
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Then they should resign in large numbers and go off and get a life with a decent lifestyle. What's the point in hanging on in quiet desperation?

The likes of Qantas get away with what they do because there's a seemingly endless supply of pilots who'll accept whatever crap conditions are dished up, in the hope that 'eventually' the company - or presumably the FWC - will 'do the right thing'. There should be a unit called "Child-Like Naivety" in the CPL/ATPL syllabus.

You're just factors in production to the beancounters. The beancounters therefore spend their days trying to get as many of you commodities as cheaply as practicable.
In recent years the standard of training at NAA has been of a very high calibre, making it an excellent stepping stone. A lot of those trainers, as well as your mentor types, have recently put in their resignation notice, so that enticement is under threat. I’m not saying that alone will lead to a flood of resignations but the glue resisting the strain of a highly dysfunctional workplace is coming unstuck before our eyes. This looks like one of those problems that starts off slow but accelerates rapidly.
walesregent is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by walesregent:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 09:44
  #1319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 5,393
Received 476 Likes on 240 Posts
Then, so be it.

Pilots should learn to do what other factors in production learnt to do, a long time ago: Decide what they require as conditions of employment and, if an employer is unwilling to provide those conditions, go somewhere else or do something else.

Life's short.
Lead Balloon is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by Lead Balloon:
Old 21st Mar 2024, 10:16
  #1320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 1,073
Received 776 Likes on 207 Posts
Subtle proposals for modifications to the A220 contract for NJS pilots to try and stem the continued pilot attrition
I have heard this from colleagues over at NJS and it seems even that will be too little too late given how savagely the Strategic Infestation EA played out.

As for market rates, that would require almost doubling what the subsidiaries currently enjoy.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.