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Old 19th Mar 2024, 09:11
  #1241 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sameoldsameold
NAA isn’t mainline and shouldn’t be paid as such.
QF management right there
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 09:27
  #1242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeHatter732
Exactly!

A few posts earlier he was advocating for a check and training rate that is a percentage and not a flat rate. If he was doing as little flying as he claims to be (45 hours stick, I nearly choked on my dinner!), the flat rate would work out better!!

This is without mentioning that 300k for being a check and trainer on a high capacity jet is hardly eye watering. Line check airmen in the US would laugh at that.
That really depends on the percentage or are you not good with math? The base rate is for more than 45 hours so unless you are doing over 60 (on the deal voted down) you get the base wage. If the Training and checking allowances were reverse engineered to be a percentage of the base pay of offer then they would increase each year unlike the fixed rate offered. While it’s a great step up on what is currently paid I’m not a fan of any allowance or payment as a fixed amount.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 09:28
  #1243 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TooManyPineapples
45 hours a month in the TCORG!!!!!? I’ll have what you’re smoking there pal.

This basically proves you’re not a pilot mate. Trainers at NAA get flogged as hard as absolutely possible, and have been for decades. That won’t change. This is why most pilots AVOID that role.
Really? How many of them are in productivity each month?
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 10:44
  #1244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by I Need Of A Change
Really? How many of them are in productivity each month?
Everyone of them I have spoken to.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 11:43
  #1245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by I Need Of A Change
If what was on offer was voted up I’d be on over 300K for around 45 hours a month. Yes I know that’ll all change when the company choose, yet despite them being short staffed now my roster is still all 2 sectors day returns and weekend off so despite the capability to roster all that overtime etc they don’t…

I don’t want to work those hours or do that many overnights. I’ve done that before and I’ve done long haul before so given I have a Command a variety of flying on the past the current roster suites me personally well. I can certainly understand it doesn’t appeal to all and especially if I was new to the airlines I would not want to do this my entire career, but for me that’s not where things sit.
I think you are missing the point here entirely.

Even if this is true, you are (supposedly) a Training Captain.
Soseg is an FO. . .
On the same size jet, painted in the same colours, flying to the same destinations, paid by the same company.

Do you see the problem yet?
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 11:51
  #1246 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Swept-Wing
I think you are missing the point here entirely.

Even if this is true, you are (supposedly) a Training Captain.
Soseg is an FO. . .
On the same size jet, painted in the same colours, flying to the same destinations, paid by the same company.

Do you see the problem yet?
As I have said, I do not want his roster or to work the hours he does. I also don’t have to worry about getting the base I want as that is only one. The average upgrade time for the F/Os at NWK is not comparable to that of QF. Pros and cons to each.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 11:58
  #1247 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by I Need Of A Change
The average upgrade time for the F/Os at NWK is not comparable to that of QF. Pros and cons to each.
Any idea why you think that might be big fella? Tell the guys in the coffee shop tomorrow morning?
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 13:30
  #1248 (permalink)  
 
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This thread has got way off topic. Time to throw the lock on it for a while. Shame really, it started off promisingly with everyone supporting a bunch of people standing up for a better deal for themselves
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 13:35
  #1249 (permalink)  
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Take your personal battles somewhere else or the thread will get closed permanently and the posters who can't help themselves from making and quoting personal attacks will be banned.

This subject is too important for a couple of people to get this shut down.






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Old 19th Mar 2024, 20:50
  #1250 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe that was the plan for a few pilot (ahem) posters. Keep stoking the fires by making contrary stances until someone retaliates big time and the thread gets locked.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 21:23
  #1251 (permalink)  
 
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When do the negotiators meet again?
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 21:42
  #1252 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ddrwk
He actually might not be.

As someone posted earlier:



Yes, they did it for years, on mainline terms and conditions. And now, Network pilots do it for less.

So it’s probably natural that some pilots feel like they have been undercut and are now expected to show support to those that accepted the lower conditions in the first place.
yeah, but pilots need to have some solidarity for once. QF IR LOVE to divide and conquer.
and we all fall for it. Stop fighting each other and unite. It’s time to correct the bullying, lies and gross manipulation
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 22:02
  #1253 (permalink)  
 
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It’s probably time for some self reflection. Just because someone holds a differing opinion to your own doesn’t necessarily mean that they are from management. Remember that there are pilots out there who voted yes to each of the previous proposals. I don’t agree with everything this guy has posted but I have the awareness to understand that my opinions may not be held by everyone else - and that is ok.

Someone posted earlier that this saga has demonstrated the best of the pilot community. If this thread is the litmus test, I could not disagree more.

Last edited by Charlie Foxtrot India; 19th Mar 2024 at 23:22. Reason: Editing out quote of personal attack
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 22:12
  #1254 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by framer
When do the negotiators meet again?
I am unsure when the meet but following Qantas’ reiteration that they won’t be increasing the cost of the deal, I would suggest actual negotiations are unlikely. And for the pro-company folk out there, a flat out refusal to allow any increase in cost in an environment where price of the ‘commodity’ is increasing indicates zero intent to negotiate.

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Old 19th Mar 2024, 23:00
  #1255 (permalink)  
 
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, a flat out refusal to allow any increase in cost in an environment where price of the ‘commodity’ is increasing indicates zero intent to negotiate.
​​​​​​​Boy oh boy, are we reeaaally sure that key FWC staff for this case aren’t Chairman’s Lounge Members? Has anyone asked them?
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 23:28
  #1256 (permalink)  
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This forum, not just this thread, is only still here on the proviso that flame wars, personal attacks and mentions of a certain year are kept out of it.

I can't watch this thread 24/7 so it may get temporarily locked from time to time and people who can't help themselves from getting into personal battles permanently banned.

Meanwhile others can discuss in a civilised way.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 23:39
  #1257 (permalink)  
 
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The 'Post Declaration Negotiating' period ends March 28th - I think the only thing that will assist now is the continued flow of resignations during this drawn out process.

It seems the viewpoint shared in Law Reviews and HR/IR rags is that Qantas has the advantage now Intractable Bargaining has been declared...

*Paywall*

Way cleared for Qantas outpost to win IBD
https://www.workplaceexpress.com.au/...p?selkey=63203




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Old 19th Mar 2024, 23:42
  #1258 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pedalz
The 'Post Declaration Negotiating' period ends March 28th - I think the only thing that will assist now is the continued flow of resignations during this drawn out process.

It seems the viewpoint shared in Law Reviews and HR/IR rags is that Qantas has the advantage now Intractable Bargaining has been declared...

*Paywall*
Will turn into NJS Version 2.0. Qantas “we won we won! Crack out the champagne!” Then a month later “hey where did all the pilots go!?”
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 23:49
  #1259 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pedalz
The 'Post Declaration Negotiating' period ends March 28th - I think the only thing that will assist now is the continued flow of resignations during this drawn out process.

It seems the viewpoint shared in Law Reviews and HR/IR rags is that Qantas has the advantage now Intractable Bargaining has been declared...

*Paywall*
From the same link:

Pilots ignoring course set by union: FWC

An "ineluctable finding" that the AFAP could not persuade pilot members at a Qantas subsidiary to vote up a new deal supported by the union has helped convince the FWC that it should make an intractable bargaining declaration sought by the airline.
I just discovered a new word.

Last edited by Chronic Snoozer; 20th Mar 2024 at 05:45.
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Old 20th Mar 2024, 00:23
  #1260 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by framer
Boy oh boy, are we reeaaally sure that key FWC staff for this case aren’t Chairman’s Lounge Members? Has anyone asked them?
If there is any form of external influence, they will be killing the goose for sure. The pilot fraternity is watching very closely and the only reason the outflow isn’t worse is because some still live in hope. One wrong move and it’s bad news for the company either way.
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