Network EBA
That’s my understanding as well but I’m not experienced in this sort of stuff.
My reading of the FWC site is that this will only be a declaration anyway, as opposed to a determination. Ie the FWC will say “ Get back to the table and stop being childish or we’ll send you to your room”
My reading of the FWC site is that this will only be a declaration anyway, as opposed to a determination. Ie the FWC will say “ Get back to the table and stop being childish or we’ll send you to your room”
[QUOTE=I Need Of A Change;11612100
How many of the Network managers have an MBA? I have not see anywhere that any of them claim to have an MBA, I’m not suggesting they don’t though.[/QUOTE]
Today’s MBA is nothing of the quality of the MBAs of yesteryear. A Harvard MBA of the 1980s was indeed something to respect and fear. Today’s MBAs? …. Pffft, Everyone has one. A bit like putting your 150 hour cadet into the left seat and letting him loose.
How many of the Network managers have an MBA? I have not see anywhere that any of them claim to have an MBA, I’m not suggesting they don’t though.[/QUOTE]
Today’s MBA is nothing of the quality of the MBAs of yesteryear. A Harvard MBA of the 1980s was indeed something to respect and fear. Today’s MBAs? …. Pffft, Everyone has one. A bit like putting your 150 hour cadet into the left seat and letting him loose.
Rachel’s email reeks of desperation. “We’ll fix everything as long as you vote up the EBA”. They know that the dam wall is leaking and it’s threatening to break.
Last edited by brokenagain; 10th Mar 2024 at 00:52.
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Australia: Virgin Australia drops intractable bargaining case after union agrees to real wage cut
This is untested legislation so a lot of industry groups will be watching the Commission if it gets that far. The only existing IB case before the FWC is the Victorian Firefighters case, that has been with the FWC for 8 months and it looks as if there will be months of court dates ahead at a minimum before a resolution is found there. The NAA EA expired a year before that one so there is one factor that may see the FWC pick up the case.
Qantas played from their standard playbook and the pilots didn’t blink this time. Every decision following that smacks of an IR team rigid in its beliefs that now finds itself completely off balance.
I Need Of A Change is a desperate manager. Ignore them.
and ignore the other newly popped accounts with almost no post history trying to desperately claim the proposed EBA is decent.
and ignore the other newly popped accounts with almost no post history trying to desperately claim the proposed EBA is decent.
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This is untested legislation so a lot of industry groups will be watching the Commission if it gets that far.
When does a middle ground become attractive to workers? When does a middle ground become attractive to Indstry Executives?
I would suggest that an industry middle ground EBA looks quite good when you are currently working away on the bottom of the heap.
Anyone see any holes in my logic?
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That middle ground will be somewhere between what the company wants, and what the Pilots want. For example if the company wants 8 days off a roster period but the pilots want 10 then I’d imagine the FWC will say “9 days it is”.
This is why IB is not a threat to the Pilots. It’s naturally going to be better then what the company is offering, maybe not quite what they want but better then the rubbish they’ve currently got in front of them.
This is why IB is not a threat to the Pilots. It’s naturally going to be better then what the company is offering, maybe not quite what they want but better then the rubbish they’ve currently got in front of them.
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That middle ground will be somewhere between what the company wants, and what the Pilots want.
On the other hand, if it was an industry middle ground it would dissuade workers at the top of the heap from calling in the FWC and dissuade companies driving wages down at all costs, ie it would be a stabilising influence on industry.
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If I was President Hatcher I would instruct whichever commissioners were involved to aim for an industry middle ground. If I was thus instructed I would simply reverse engineer a percentage increase to put Network base salary and allowances right smack bang in the middle of the Australian Airline Industry which would be a very easy number to defend. If I was a Network pilot I would then take my family out to dinner to celebrate.
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RY email.
I would be most interested to read RY’s latest email to Network pilots too.
I am trying to find RY’s email to LH flight attendants for context. That email was the one in which QF threatened to terminate their EA; a previous ‘loophole’ in the IR legislation that was widely condemned by commentators. That managers are able to take these unethical, hardline IR stances and then be promoted to bigger things in the QF group never ceases to amaze me. I believe we will only see real change at QF with new senior management that clean out the management ranks of people like RY and NS amongst others. Until then, pilot solidarity and strength is the only thing that will get us through.
I am trying to find RY’s email to LH flight attendants for context. That email was the one in which QF threatened to terminate their EA; a previous ‘loophole’ in the IR legislation that was widely condemned by commentators. That managers are able to take these unethical, hardline IR stances and then be promoted to bigger things in the QF group never ceases to amaze me. I believe we will only see real change at QF with new senior management that clean out the management ranks of people like RY and NS amongst others. Until then, pilot solidarity and strength is the only thing that will get us through.
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This debacle simply goes to show that this industry is a a terminal decline. When basic office workers make 100k but a 320 FO makes 130k you know it is time to move on.
30k pay cut but every weekend off, Christmas Easter off , no 5am sign on, flex working arrangements I could go on forever.
let aviation fester imo good luck to the airlines they can crew the planes with third world pilots.
30k pay cut but every weekend off, Christmas Easter off , no 5am sign on, flex working arrangements I could go on forever.
let aviation fester imo good luck to the airlines they can crew the planes with third world pilots.
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If I was President Hatcher I would instruct whichever commissioners were involved to aim for an industry middle ground. If I was thus instructed I would simply reverse engineer a percentage increase to put Network base salary and allowances right smack bang in the middle of the Australian Airline Industry which would be a very easy number to defend. If I was a Network pilot I would then take my family out to dinner to celebrate.
However the case will be heard by FWC Deputy Beaumont. Abbey Beaumont was the former HR manager at FMG and was appointed to the commission by Michaelia Cash.
The ACTU was not happy with her appointment.
Adam Hatcher, former TWU lawyer, seems to be a very middle ground player and both unions and the business community liked his appointment as the FWC President.
However the case will be heard by FWC Deputy Beaumont. Abbey Beaumont was the former HR manager at FMG and was appointed to the commission by Michaelia Cash.
The ACTU was not happy with her appointment.
However the case will be heard by FWC Deputy Beaumont. Abbey Beaumont was the former HR manager at FMG and was appointed to the commission by Michaelia Cash.
The ACTU was not happy with her appointment.
That middle ground will be somewhere between what the company wants, and what the Pilots want.
Basically the game for Companies under this type of system is to drive salaries down as far as you can get them. Then go for a determination and gamble that the commisioner (who is probably in the Chairman's Lounge) will never actually set a market salary increase.
In reality have a look at what airlines around the world pay pilots relative to their own economies then look at Australia and you will see where it is at. Meanwhile here we will be in the insane position of low ball wages with a pilot labour shortage and companies on the front page of the AFR crying how hard done by they are because there is no staff.
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That in itself is interesting to think about. If you are the President of the FWC you will probably be considering the message that the first few cases send to industry and unions no? What message ( within the new closing loopholes legal framework obviously) do you want to send? If it was me I would like neither Industry Executives, nor Union bosses to be chomping at the bit to secure a FWC declaration. I would be searching for a delicate middle ground.
When does a middle ground become attractive to workers? When does a middle ground become attractive to Indstry Executives?
I would suggest that an industry middle ground EBA looks quite good when you are currently working away on the bottom of the heap.
Anyone see any holes in my logic?
When does a middle ground become attractive to workers? When does a middle ground become attractive to Indstry Executives?
I would suggest that an industry middle ground EBA looks quite good when you are currently working away on the bottom of the heap.
Anyone see any holes in my logic?
However the case will be heard by FWC Deputy Beaumont. Abbey Beaumont was the former HR manager at FMG and was appointed to the commission by Michaelia Cash.
PS someone really needs to ask Abbey if she’s a member of the Chairman’s Lounge, if she doesn’t give a straight ‘No and I never have been’ then the whole thing is a farce. She may have suspended her membership last month so she can answer ‘No’.
That in itself is interesting to think about. If you are the President of the FWC you will probably be considering the message that the first few cases send to industry and unions no? What message ( within the new closing loopholes legal framework obviously) do you want to send? If it was me I would like neither Industry Executives, nor Union bosses to be chomping at the bit to secure a FWC declaration. I would be searching for a delicate middle ground.
When does a middle ground become attractive to workers? When does a middle ground become attractive to Indstry Executives?
I would suggest that an industry middle ground EBA looks quite good when you are currently working away on the bottom of the heap.
Anyone see any holes in my logic?
When does a middle ground become attractive to workers? When does a middle ground become attractive to Indstry Executives?
I would suggest that an industry middle ground EBA looks quite good when you are currently working away on the bottom of the heap.
Anyone see any holes in my logic?
Setting the standard against the old EBA and averaging respective positions would:
1. encourage every employer with below-par conditions to push everything to IB
2. encourage all future negotiations in Australia to have an outrageous log of claims (and ironically make IB more likely), but also:
3. would not be supportive of the basic premise of the Federal government’s new same job/same pay legislation.
I would expect the commission to look at mainline shorthaul (closest similarity to network) and perhaps Jetstar etc. and declare a solution of similar ilk to those agreements. It’s the only solution - unless the FWC wants to encourage a flood of IB applications from all industries.
INOAC, so you’re an EBA line driver at Network? Yeah, sure.
Did you hear the NJS A220 agreement is dead in the water? I wonder if you should lose those KPIs too? What a massive own goal that was 🤪
The problem with this whole NAA sh*tshow is that the supply/demand position has swung 180 degrees, and QF don’t seem adaptable - they have no experience on how to do this except for the big stick and fear approach.
The change in narrative regarding the SHEA seems like perhaps they’re just starting to wake-up. Unfortunately, they’ve dug themselves in so hard with NAA that they don’t want to be seen to have lost to PIA.
Offering up the same BS agreement post IB application proves they are below minima with no visual reference.
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