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Old 8th Mar 2024, 10:41
  #861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bigredsky
You can give up posting mate, it’s already a “no” vote
Regardless of the outcome, my question stands and think that information might be useful should it end up with an arbitrated outcome or at least to support the statement made.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 12:51
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I just don’t get why you’re so against getting the absolute best possible deal you could get, instead of these clearly half arsed deals QF IR keep throwing at you? Come on Need a Change, what’s in it for you?
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 13:06
  #863 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bigredsky
You can give up posting mate, it’s already a “no” vote
What's the % who voted no this time?
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 13:18
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GoJet offering Green Card sponsorship

Can’t post the link, but check out their website..

GoJet now advertising Green Card sponsorship for E3 holders with a pathway to United.

The writing is on the wall, disenfranchised QF group pilots now have more international options..
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 13:22
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Originally Posted by morno
I just don’t get why you’re so against getting the absolute best possible deal you could get, instead of these clearly half arsed deals QF IR keep throwing at you? Come on Need a Change, what’s in it for you?
So what is the best deal and how do the pilots secure that please? What’s in it for me? Backpay, known conditions and certainty of what my future roster will be and protections around what the company can and cannot do with that be the current 7 day loophole.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 17:18
  #866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
I just don’t get why you’re so against getting the absolute best possible deal you could get, instead of these clearly half arsed deals QF IR keep throwing at you? Come on Need a Change, what’s in it for you?
The power of suggestion is strong in this one. INOC wants pilots to think anything other than what’s on offer will be less than it is now, ‘quick take it before it disappears!’ QF IR is a one trick pony and we’re seeing right through it.

Hang tough, the eleventh hour deal (the one they will drop on you to avoid IB) will be leaps and bounds ahead of what’s on the table now.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 18:42
  #867 (permalink)  
 
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To all us watching and encouraging you network pilots, what’s the result of the vote? Stay strong. It sucks that anyone should have to fight this fight. Full respect and admiration to you all.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 19:40
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Originally Posted by morno
I just don’t get why you’re so against getting the absolute best possible deal you could get, instead of these clearly half arsed deals QF IR keep throwing at you? Come on Need a Change, what’s in it for you?
The answer is simple - he gets KPIs for getting a crap deal over the line.

As someone said earlier, INOAC posts here feverishly coming into a vote, using all the usual fear based IR tactics - such as suggesting a loss of backpay. And supporting the bullying tactics of managers bailing up pilots over industrial issues in the aerobridge when they’re just trying to do their job safely.

Don’t worry - when the no result arrives, he will slink off and hide for a few weeks while cooking up the next fear campaign.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 21:15
  #869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
The power of suggestion is strong in this one. INOC wants pilots to think anything other than what’s on offer will be less than it is now, ‘quick take it before it disappears!’ QF IR is a one trick pony and we’re seeing right through it.

Hang tough, the eleventh hour deal (the one they will drop on you to avoid IB) will be leaps and bounds ahead of what’s on the table now.
So no answer to my question then? Just back the usual labelling.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 21:22
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Originally Posted by I Need Of A Change
So what is the best deal and how do the pilots secure that please? What’s in it for me? Backpay, known conditions and certainty of what my future roster will be and protections around what the company can and cannot do with that be the current 7 day loophole.
You really want to know what the best deal is for a NAA (Or a Rex or Eastern pilot)? Giving Network the asre and changing careers. There's better paying jobs out there with far better conditions across a range of industries than forcing yourself to suffer through this kind of rubbish every time the EBA rolls around for negotiation. Unless and until you get mainline, or go to the States, regional salaries are woeful, particularly when you consider what you've had to pay yourself to get your bum in the seat in the first place...

I'm just a dumb-asre train driver who never finished Y12 - but one who was smart enough to give away commercial flying when I saw what lay ahead. However, when I'm earning very close coin to an A320 skipper and more than their Fokker Captains on a lifestyle 2/2 roster, you've got problems. The average training salary for us now is around the $85-90K mark, and once you qualify (realistically, 1-1.5 years), you'd have to be very unlucky to earn less than $130K on the east coast and $200K in the Pilbara. Even the blokes down the road at Rio with the new EBA are doing that well and they're the lowest paid up here - their minimum base rate is $110K and with allowances takes it to $197.5K for FIFO, much more if you live here..

If Network (and others) want to not only attract but retain aircrew, they're going to have to make the salaries and T&C's much more competitive in the current environment. That they don't want to speaks volumes about where the industry's headed down here and the level of respect the Group has for their staff (though that's not really a surprise these days, is it?)

There'll always be people with 'shiny jet syndrome', but even these days I get the impression the pool of potential students is rapidly shrinking because not many can afford the cost of training and the reward is no longer what it once was. So for the Network guys, and to quite Jack Dawson, "When you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose!" Keep fighting for the conditions you deserve!
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 21:50
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Another point to consider....the Network A320s hold more passengers than the Mainline 737s so why shouldn't they get at least the same pay/conditions as 737 mainline?
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 21:53
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Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete
The answer is simple - he gets KPIs for getting a crap deal over the line.

As someone said earlier, INOAC posts here feverishly coming into a vote, using all the usual fear based IR tactics - such as suggesting a loss of backpay. And supporting the bullying tactics of managers bailing up pilots over industrial issues in the aerobridge when they’re just trying to do their job safely.

Don’t worry - when the no result arrives, he will slink off and hide for a few weeks while cooking up the next fear campaign.
Sorry but I’m employed on the EA so no KPIs in there unless I’m also unable to read what’s in the expired deal or on offer in the one being voted on. In regards to the vote I would suspect the majors have already voted and it might well go down like the last three but we will have to wait and see.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 21:53
  #873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by I Need Of A Change
Any source to support that claim for those of us not in the know so we can check?
100% its true, though the 320 does give 6 extra seats. Perth can be a small town with friends, relatives, school parents etc from different industries crossing paths. It's staggering what can be found out, even some senior QF people should be aware of this when telling lies, there's always someone somewhere to fact check.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 22:40
  #874 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator
You really want to know what the best deal is for a NAA (Or a Rex or Eastern pilot)? Giving Network the asre and changing careers. There's better paying jobs out there with far better conditions across a range of industries than forcing yourself to suffer through this kind of rubbish every time the EBA rolls around for negotiation.
This is really the best way to force change - supply and demand. IR laws in this country aren’t really designed for radical pro worker changes.

For the NAA guys there’s the JQ operation starting up over the road which I believe is still under crewed. At least you’ll be flying newer aircraft and to some more exotic destinations than some minesite.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 22:43
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Originally Posted by The Love Doctor
Another point to consider....the Network A320s hold more passengers than the Mainline 737s so why shouldn't they get at least the same pay/conditions as 737 mainline?
You can’t really compare salaries with passenger numbers. A JQ A321LR carries just 2 less passengers than a QF 787 but the pilot salaries are widely dissimilar.



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Old 8th Mar 2024, 23:49
  #876 (permalink)  
 
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AFAP members! If you can get hold of it, read
the latest QF SH Briefing and compare that with what’s on offer here. Consider that very carefully if you’re entertaining a yes vote, you’ll be left behind!
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 00:42
  #877 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
AFAP members! If you can get hold of it, read
the latest QF SH Briefing and compare that with what’s on offer here. Consider that very carefully if you’re entertaining a yes vote, you’ll be left behind!
It was a wish list. Nothing more.


Our claim for salary includes: • An immediate 8.36% increase to make up for the 2022, 2023 shortfall when compared to CPI. • An Additional 5% pay increase in line with industry movements. • Increases over the life of agreement in line with forecast CPI of: • 2024: 4% • 2025: 4% • 2026: 3% • 2027: 3%
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 00:49
  #878 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dejapoo
It was a wish list. Nothing more.


Our claim for salary includes: • An immediate 8.36% increase to make up for the 2022, 2023 shortfall when compared to CPI. • An Additional 5% pay increase in line with industry movements. • Increases over the life of agreement in line with forecast CPI of: • 2024: 4% • 2025: 4% • 2026: 3% • 2027: 3%
Indeed, and I agree, however, this is where the AFAP believe short haul domestic pilots should be in the grand scheme, not where Qantas believe we should be. There is increasing upward pressure on pay and conditions and Qantas are madly denying its existence. If the desperate appeals by NAAs fearful leader is any indication, they are hugely concerned about the awakening of the pilots. The rush to get this deal locked before that happens is a clear indication of that.
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 01:13
  #879 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Indeed, and I agree, however, this is where the AFAP believe short haul domestic pilots should be in the grand scheme, not where Qantas believe we should be. There is increasing upward pressure on pay and conditions and Qantas are madly denying its existence. If the desperate appeals by NAAs fearful leader is any indication, they are hugely concerned about the awakening of the pilots. The rush to get this deal locked before that happens is a clear indication of that.
Just keep saying NO until short haul and NJS align. Gonna be an exciting year!

Ps. You should see the job adverts for Alliance on Seek. Reeks of desperation.

P.P.S. Open time looks sporting for next week.
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Old 9th Mar 2024, 01:17
  #880 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dejapoo
Just keep saying NO until short haul and NJS align. Gonna be an exciting year!

Ps. You should see the job adverts for Alliance on Seek. Reeks of desperation.

P.P.S. Open time looks sporting for next week.

Just keep voting no. Work to rule. Park every A320, 737, 717 and A220 in QF. Qantas can get with reality and pay housing allowances to anyone based in Syd or Melb and they can increase all pilot salaries by a minimum of 150k pa to keep in line with inflation. The greedy managers and directors of Qantas always keep up with inflation, its time pilots get their fair share. These morons need to realise they don't have a job without pilots. Park every Jet!
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