Network EBA
Well there’s already a range of salaries for other 320 operators like JQ and VARA as mentioned earlier on this thread - $220-240k-ish for Capt. This was also roughly the same range as AFAP and management agreed each time in earlier EA iterations, so almost certain the FWC would rule in this range.
Therefore the real determinations would be over work rules - for instance I hear there’s a disagreement to earliest sign on time after a day off. NAA management wants earlier to better crew early sign ons, union wants later. Both will have their chance to argue their case in court.
Generally I believe courts in this country are pretty conservative and don’t make too many radical changes to work rules so the final product won’t be too dissimilar to the current EA IMO.
The end result will be more clear when it (probably) ends up in court, until then it’s really just speculation.
Therefore the real determinations would be over work rules - for instance I hear there’s a disagreement to earliest sign on time after a day off. NAA management wants earlier to better crew early sign ons, union wants later. Both will have their chance to argue their case in court.
Generally I believe courts in this country are pretty conservative and don’t make too many radical changes to work rules so the final product won’t be too dissimilar to the current EA IMO.
The end result will be more clear when it (probably) ends up in court, until then it’s really just speculation.
The people who don’t think they have much to lose between the current EA and what IB might offer, havent done their due dilegence. I’m not going to spruike the EA that goes to vote tomorrow. I’m sure most have made up their minds, but I will say when all is said and done you actually do have a lot to lose.
PIA has become quite the own goal for the union. It has turned from a tool of the pilots to a poison challis suffocating its members. I respect all those who contributed (to the fund) to what they believed to be a noble cause. In the light of day we all can see this has been a futile exercise and not moved the industrial landscape in Australian Aviation.
But wasn’t the goal to be a better deal for Network Aviation Pilots?
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Anyone operating under that current EA would know if what you say is true then that is not a good result for the pilots.
The people who don’t think they have much to lose between the current EA and what IB might offer, havent done their due dilegence. I’m not going to spruike the EA that goes to vote tomorrow. I’m sure most have made up their minds, but I will say when all is said and done you actually do have a lot to lose.
PIA has become quite the own goal for the union. It has turned from a tool of the pilots to a poison challis suffocating its members. I respect all those who contributed (to the fund) to what they believed to be a noble cause. In the light of day we all can see this has been a futile exercise and not moved the industrial landscape in Australian Aviation.
But wasn’t the goal to be a better deal for Network Aviation Pilots?
The people who don’t think they have much to lose between the current EA and what IB might offer, havent done their due dilegence. I’m not going to spruike the EA that goes to vote tomorrow. I’m sure most have made up their minds, but I will say when all is said and done you actually do have a lot to lose.
PIA has become quite the own goal for the union. It has turned from a tool of the pilots to a poison challis suffocating its members. I respect all those who contributed (to the fund) to what they believed to be a noble cause. In the light of day we all can see this has been a futile exercise and not moved the industrial landscape in Australian Aviation.
But wasn’t the goal to be a better deal for Network Aviation Pilots?
Don’t be fooled, that’s what the company wants you to think “not moved the industrial landscape”. The landscape is about to be changed. We have managers in aerobridges trying to sell an EBA like a used car sales person. The panic from management is very clear. They certainly are not talking to pilots to try and persuade a “yes” vote because it’s “in the best interest of the pilots”
Don’t be fooled, that’s what the company wants you to think “not moved the industrial landscape”. The landscape is about to be changed. We have managers in aerobridges trying to sell an EBA like a used car sales person. The panic from management is very clear. They certainly are not talking to pilots to try and persuade a “yes” vote because it’s “in the best interest of the pilots”
Can you post the comments or questions the managers are asking in the aerobridge? The ones I spoke to had nothing to do with the EA and more about morale which myself and the crew fleet happy to portray was at a low. They never asked a single question about the EA. Was more safety related matters but that’s only my experience.
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Exciting to see the two usual suspects reappear just before the vote. If the deal was no good a month back, it’s just as bad now. There is a fourth option that no one seems to be discussing - that this is a final roll of the dice to use financial pressures to end the PIA, the deal
is voted down again, and the group caves as they too are uncertain about the outcome of IB.
Chevron and Virgin BOTH applied for IB and BOTH backed out of it at the last minute. Good chance QF does the same.
is voted down again, and the group caves as they too are uncertain about the outcome of IB.
Chevron and Virgin BOTH applied for IB and BOTH backed out of it at the last minute. Good chance QF does the same.
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At this point the PIA is as much about a positive EBA outcome as it is about ensuring the group shows it has even the slightest amount of respect for their employees. Once again though, the group demonstrates nothing but sneering contempt and hostility from a management structure that seems to despise their own employees and downplay entirely the contributions they make to the business.
Chevron and Virgin BOTH applied for IB and BOTH backed out of it at the last minute. Good chance QF does the same.
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GFR, with due respect, you are starting to believe your own bull* hit.
You are playing poker.
You, the NA pilots are using PIA, to prosecute your aims.
On the other hand, NA are using the options available to it to contest your aims.
It is a time for hard nosed rational judgement.
A while ago, another group of pilots believed their own bull* hit and lost the poker game..
You are playing poker.
You, the NA pilots are using PIA, to prosecute your aims.
On the other hand, NA are using the options available to it to contest your aims.
It is a time for hard nosed rational judgement.
A while ago, another group of pilots believed their own bull* hit and lost the poker game..
shut up already. Keep living in the past.
there is no downside for these guys. NONE
GFR, with due respect, you are starting to believe your own bull* hit.
You are playing poker.
You, the NA pilots are using PIA, to prosecute your aims.
On the other hand, NA are using the options available to it to contest your aims.
It is a time for hard nosed rational judgement.
A while ago, another group of pilots believed their own bull* hit and lost the poker game..
You are playing poker.
You, the NA pilots are using PIA, to prosecute your aims.
On the other hand, NA are using the options available to it to contest your aims.
It is a time for hard nosed rational judgement.
A while ago, another group of pilots believed their own bull* hit and lost the poker game..
Good luck today NAA guys. There is great potential for life changing improvements.
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Putting the same deal forward for a vote at the eleventh hour, when no doubt all the pilots are becoming tired, stressed, financially stretched and worn down, is such a disgustingly strategic move that if you can't see it exactly for what it is, there is something seriously wrong with you. They are playing chicken, and banking on the pilots being the ones to turn away.
Putting your name to a yes vote now is a knife in the back to all your colleagues who have sacrificed over the last several weeks to get something better. If it got up, then it absolutely would all have been for nothing.
Putting your name to a yes vote now is a knife in the back to all your colleagues who have sacrificed over the last several weeks to get something better. If it got up, then it absolutely would all have been for nothing.
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Putting the same deal forward for a vote at the eleventh hour, when no doubt all the pilots are becoming tired, stressed, financially stretched and worn down, is such a disgustingly strategic move that if you can't see it exactly for what it is, there is something seriously wrong with you. They are playing chicken, and banking on the pilots being the ones to turn away.
Putting your name to a yes vote now is a knife in the back to all your colleagues who have sacrificed over the last several weeks to get something better. If it got up, then it absolutely would all have been for nothing.
Putting your name to a yes vote now is a knife in the back to all your colleagues who have sacrificed over the last several weeks to get something better. If it got up, then it absolutely would all have been for nothing.
I agree.
In my opinion , if the yes vote gets up and you listen closely enough, you will hear the backslapping, laughter and popping of champagne corks along with 'we got em again!' coming all the way from The Campus in Mascot.
Last edited by Talkwrench; 7th Mar 2024 at 22:18. Reason: Grammar
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Ok so let’s try flip that and an EA is voted up that you are happy with and your manager gets a KPI or not, what does that matter? The two are not set in concert and intertwined.
If you are satisfied with the EA and the working conditions how much does it matter if anyone gets a bonus or not? It might be their primary motivation and it might not but it’ll be rather difficult to determine that and how it’ll impact the manager.
If you are satisfied with the EA and the working conditions how much does it matter if anyone gets a bonus or not? It might be their primary motivation and it might not but it’ll be rather difficult to determine that and how it’ll impact the manager.
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$100 for something that never happened, any long term contributor want to take my wager?
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So you want us to all believe you are a simple line Pilot, just one of us giving an opinion to the Managers in the aerobridge on your way operating to the Pilbara?
Nothing sus.
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Can you post the comments or questions the managers are asking in the aerobridge? The ones I spoke to had nothing to do with the EA and more about morale which myself and the crew fleet happy to portray was at a low. They never asked a single question about the EA. Was more safety related matters but that’s only my experience.
If Qantas really thought they had a case, they would have attempted the lockout manoeuvre or similar already.
Last edited by gordonfvckingramsay; 8th Mar 2024 at 04:10.
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If Qantas really thought they had a case, they would have attempted the lockout manoeuvre or similar alread
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Also, didn’t SH used to do a lot of the flying that Network now does? So the flying was profitable paying SH wages then, the company just set up a lower paying subsidiary to increase profits. It will still make money if Network get SH wages, it’s just that management don’t want to share any of the near record profits with the employees.
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They charge the same rate for a 737 that they do for an A320.
Which is why they’re pretty keen to run A320s and some mining companies are now requesting 737s.
Which is why they’re pretty keen to run A320s and some mining companies are now requesting 737s.
Last edited by Big Silver Spoon; 8th Mar 2024 at 10:55.
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