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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 14th Oct 2021, 02:27
  #921 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches View Post
Additional issues are that a lead time on doctors is a minimum of 6 years, you can't import doctors at the moment due to the stress on the systems overseas.
There is something seriously wrong if Australia can't train enough of it's own doctors. We truly are the cleanest third world country in the world. Are we just not smart enough to become doctors? Why do 'doctors' want to come to Australia? Meanwhile, the government gives handouts to businesses that don't need it and writes blank checks for submarines.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 03:50
  #922 (permalink)  
 
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There is something seriously wrong if Australia can't train enough of it's own doctors. We truly are the cleanest third world country in the world. Are we just not smart enough to become doctors? Why do 'doctors' want to come to Australia? Meanwhile, the government gives handouts to businesses that don't need it and writes blank checks for submarines.
Just about every country has similar issues, the ones with high medical standards that is. The USA and UK are both short staff for doctors, surgeons, nurses etc. The NHS has had a rash of resignations because of Covid and its demands on staff. It's a demanding job and most get out or avoid hospitals at all costs, its a thankless job on lowish pay and long hours, compared to being a GP or specialist.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 05:46
  #923 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
There is something seriously wrong if Australia can't train enough of it's own doctors. We truly are the cleanest third world country in the world. Are we just not smart enough to become doctors? Why do 'doctors' want to come to Australia? Meanwhile, the government gives handouts to businesses that don't need it and writes blank checks for submarines.
We have never been able to train enough doctors, its why we steal a lot from 3rd world countries. Dunno about doctors but know some British nurses working in AUS. They are saying they all know nurses from the UK who are biting at the bit to see if the a AUS-UK FTA gives full recognition of a UK nursing Qual. If some they will be on a plane to aus for better lifestyle and pay
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 08:04
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattman View Post
We have never been able to train enough doctors, its why we steal a lot from 3rd world countries. Dunno about doctors but know some British nurses working in AUS. They are saying they all know nurses from the UK who are biting at the bit to see if the a AUS-UK FTA gives full recognition of a UK nursing Qual. If some they will be on a plane to aus for better lifestyle and pay
Warning thread drift but whatever. We live in a country that has given up on manufacturing and training only to import manufactured goods because we're too busy enjoying the lifestyle, and people to work for inferior wages, frequently brandishing dodgy qualifications. We certainly are the lucky country. But real dumb.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 09:37
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
There is something seriously wrong if Australia can't train enough of it's own doctors. We truly are the cleanest third world country in the world. Are we just not smart enough to become doctors? Why do 'doctors' want to come to Australia? Meanwhile, the government gives handouts to businesses that don't need it and writes blank checks for submarines.
Same can be said for LAME's. Very soon there will be a serious shortage, and there is a long lead time to train up LAME's too.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 10:32
  #926 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
There is something seriously wrong if Australia can't train enough of it's own doctors. We truly are the cleanest third world country in the world. Are we just not smart enough to become doctors? Why do 'doctors' want to come to Australia? Meanwhile, the government gives handouts to businesses that don't need it and writes blank checks for submarines.
Have you ever considered that maybe there’s just not enough people who WANT to become doctors or nurses?

Its a bloody long road to become a doctor, and even longer to become a nurse that earns any decent sort of money.

Sure you can do your degree as a doctor in 6 years or whatever it is, but then you spend years again specialising in your chosen field (anaesthetics, GP, surgeon, just to mention a few).

So to expect a qualified doctor who’s trained in the necessary field to appear out of no where and magically begin curing Covid patients (who soon will mainly be the unvaccinated anyway….. ohhh, now I see why they’re scared), is very unrealistic.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 10:37
  #927 (permalink)  
 
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Its a bloody long road to become a doctor, and even longer to become a nurse that earns any decent sort of money.
And after all that training I doubt many are too thrilled with sticking around in a Public hospital any longer than they have to.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 12:44
  #928 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Have you ever considered that maybe there’s just not enough people who WANT to become doctors or nurses?

Its a bloody long road to become a doctor, and even longer to become a nurse that earns any decent sort of money.

Sure you can do your degree as a doctor in 6 years or whatever it is, but then you spend years again specialising in your chosen field (anaesthetics, GP, surgeon, just to mention a few).

So to expect a qualified doctor who’s trained in the necessary field to appear out of no where and magically begin curing Covid patients (who soon will mainly be the unvaccinated anyway….. ohhh, now I see why they’re scared), is very unrealistic.
Sure. Probably nothing to do with it being a closed shop. Or making interns work 80 hour weeks. Nothing to do with buying bigger boats either. Anyway, thread drift........

Last edited by Chronic Snoozer; 14th Oct 2021 at 15:31.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 12:58
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer View Post
Sure. Probably nothing to do with it being a closed shop. Or making residents work 80 hour weeks. Nothing to do with buying bigger boats either. Anyway, thread drift........
Closed shop? Wtf are you on about?
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 13:48
  #930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by indigopete View Post
Interesting vaccine performance data for spread mitigation from the latest Public Health England (now "UK Health Security Agency") report. Looks like the reversers deployed in mid-flight.

If this was a plane would you get in it ?
The modern way of deciding whether to get on an aircraft is to ignore advice from aircraft designers, pilots etc as they are all paid by the aviation industry so can't be trusted. Even if they are in fact trustworthy, they won't know as much as you because they haven't seen the You Tube video that shows thrust reversers aren't required if Ivermectin is added to Jet A-1. Big Jet Engine manufacturers are surpressing this data.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 14:33
  #931 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by indigopete View Post
Except that that data doesn't come from a "Youtube video". It comes from England's most authoritative health protection agency.
. Excellent. I take it you will be following their advice to get vaccinated then?
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 15:54
  #932 (permalink)  
 
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Interpretation of the case rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated population is particularly susceptible to changes in denominators and should be interpreted with extra caution.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 20:05
  #933 (permalink)  
 
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Again, you aren’t accounting for the denominator. Your claims are unsubstantiated because your methodology is flawed as you have not taken into account the population group sizes of vaxxed vs non vaxxed.

At 0% Vaccination, 0% of deaths/hospitalisations would be Vaccinated. As a population increases its vaccination status, the number of vaccinated cases would naturally increase with it. At 100% Vaccination, 100% of cases, deaths etc would be vaccinated, so by your logic that would be definitive proof vaccinations don’t work.

If you’re going to analyse the data, do it properly as this person has for Israel (last updated 21’st Sept)
https://www.covid-datascience.com/po...pIUBJV7SNVn0Gk

As for efficacy, it’s been well documented since the emergence of Delta that Vaccine protection from transmission has dropped considerably but severe illness protection remains strong. This will likely result in boosters, but that in itself doesn’t mean we’ll be getting them every 6 months. The Tetinus Vaccine, for example, requires 3 doses through childhood, and up to 4 or 5 over your lifespan. Every Vaccine/Virus is different.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 21:15
  #934 (permalink)  
 
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Indigopete…..you are such an expert on what the airline should not be requiring (mandatory vaccine for employees) but unable to spell the name correctly…..there is no ‘u’ in Qantas
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 21:25
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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Cut and Paste Pete, you little beauty, not.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 22:13
  #936 (permalink)  
 
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This is a classic example of taking a graph out of context and misinterpreting it, either on purpose or not understanding what it represents.

Link to the report: https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_40.pdf

Last paragraphs before the Tables;

Interpretation of data These data should be considered in the context of vaccination status of the population groups shown in the rest of this report. The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths is not the most appropriate method to assess vaccine effectiveness and there is a high risk of misinterpretation. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is described earlier in this report.
Up a bit further is the comment on Vaccine effectiveness on preventing spread;

Effectiveness against transmission As described above, several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission. There may be additional benefit, beyond that due to prevention of infection, if some of those individuals who become infected despite vaccination are also at a reduced risk of transmitting (for example, because of reduced duration or level of viral shedding). A household transmission study in England found that household contacts of cases vaccinated with a single dose had approximately 35 to 50% reduced risk of becoming a confirmed case of COVID-19. This study used routine testing data so would only include household contacts that developed symptoms and went on to request a test via pillar 2. It cannot exclude asymptomatic secondary cases or mildly symptomatic cases who chose not to request a COVID-19 test (16). Data from Scotland has also shown that household contacts of vaccinated healthcare workers are at reduced risk of becoming a case, which is in line with the studies on infection (17). Both of these studies relate to a period when the Alpha variant dominated. An analysis from the ONS Community Infection Survey found that contacts of vaccinated index cases had around 65-80% reduced odds of testing positive with the Alpha variant and 35-65% reduced odds of testing positive with the Delta variant compare to contacts of unvaccinated index cases (18).
Hospitalisation and Mortality;

Effectiveness against hospitalisation Several studies have estimated vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation in older all of which indicate higher levels of protection against hospitalisation with all vaccines against the Alpha variant (7, 8, 9, 10). Effectiveness against hospitalisation of over 90% is also observed with the Delta variant with all 3 vaccines (3). In most groups there is relatively limited waning of protection against hospitalisation over a period of at least 5 months after the second dose. Greater waning appears to occur among those in clinical risk groups (3). Effectiveness against mortality High levels of protection (over 90%) are also seen against mortality with all 3 vaccines and against both the Alpha and Delta variants (7, 11, 3). Relatively limited waning of protection against mortality is seen over a period of at least 5 months.
So in closing, when interpreting a report, READ THE WHOLE REPORT, don't just cherry pick something that agrees with you and look stupid.

PS, Transmission and Infection are two different things, Transmission you might get some virus detectable in you, Infection the virus can replicate to level considered 'infected'. I say this because if you read back the protection from infection even vs delta of a vaccinated person is 80%+.

Last edited by 43Inches; 14th Oct 2021 at 22:33.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 22:16
  #937 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by indigopete View Post
disease enhancement features. <-- Mods note: All formal scientific journal published. No anti-vax conspiracy looptard nor pro-vax virtiousity arms-race sources linked.

I'd say right now it's a 50-50 toss-up whether Quantas et al should be banning the unvaxed or the vaxed from flight crew duties. Maybe just live, let live and get on with some useful stuff instead of this autocratic nonsense.
ADE must be the anti-vax buzzword of the year. Even your own study admits there is no evidence of the effect in the preclinical trials around at the time of writing, which was approximately 12 months ago - a very long time in a disease that is less than 2 years old. How many vaccine doses have been administered now - about 4 billion? More than enough time to demonstrate worse clinical outcomes for vaccinated individuals and yet we have not seen this anywhere.

A bit of critical thinking goes a long way. And no - disagreeing with the status quo is not the same as critical thinking!
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 23:11
  #938 (permalink)  
 
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Bugger me, this pandemic has brought out some nuffies!

It would make a for a great study one day; the psychology behind the minority desperately spreading fear and misinformation.

Eye-opening stuff really.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 23:50
  #939 (permalink)  
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Don't bother with the minority, demographics show that the majority is who count in the end. Politicians live and survive on the numbers and the numbers, overwhelmingly, show
the majority are in favour of the vax. Take it to the bank, if legislation is what it takes to get the population vaccinated, it will be passed as law.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 01:58
  #940 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmmm. I reckon you're conflating someone's decision to get vaccinated for someone's support for a law making it compulsory. I've decided to get vaccinated but do not support a law making it compulsory.
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