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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 14th Oct 2021, 15:54
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Interpretation of the case rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated population is particularly susceptible to changes in denominators and should be interpreted with extra caution.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 20:05
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Again, you aren’t accounting for the denominator. Your claims are unsubstantiated because your methodology is flawed as you have not taken into account the population group sizes of vaxxed vs non vaxxed.

At 0% Vaccination, 0% of deaths/hospitalisations would be Vaccinated. As a population increases its vaccination status, the number of vaccinated cases would naturally increase with it. At 100% Vaccination, 100% of cases, deaths etc would be vaccinated, so by your logic that would be definitive proof vaccinations don’t work.

If you’re going to analyse the data, do it properly as this person has for Israel (last updated 21’st Sept)
https://www.covid-datascience.com/po...pIUBJV7SNVn0Gk

As for efficacy, it’s been well documented since the emergence of Delta that Vaccine protection from transmission has dropped considerably but severe illness protection remains strong. This will likely result in boosters, but that in itself doesn’t mean we’ll be getting them every 6 months. The Tetinus Vaccine, for example, requires 3 doses through childhood, and up to 4 or 5 over your lifespan. Every Vaccine/Virus is different.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 21:15
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Indigopete…..you are such an expert on what the airline should not be requiring (mandatory vaccine for employees) but unable to spell the name correctly…..there is no ‘u’ in Qantas
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 21:25
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Cut and Paste Pete, you little beauty, not.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 22:13
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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This is a classic example of taking a graph out of context and misinterpreting it, either on purpose or not understanding what it represents.

Link to the report: https://assets.publishing.service.go..._-_week_40.pdf

Last paragraphs before the Tables;

Interpretation of data These data should be considered in the context of vaccination status of the population groups shown in the rest of this report. The vaccination status of cases, inpatients and deaths is not the most appropriate method to assess vaccine effectiveness and there is a high risk of misinterpretation. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is described earlier in this report.
Up a bit further is the comment on Vaccine effectiveness on preventing spread;

Effectiveness against transmission As described above, several studies have provided evidence that vaccines are effective at preventing infection. Uninfected individuals cannot transmit; therefore, the vaccines are also effective at preventing transmission. There may be additional benefit, beyond that due to prevention of infection, if some of those individuals who become infected despite vaccination are also at a reduced risk of transmitting (for example, because of reduced duration or level of viral shedding). A household transmission study in England found that household contacts of cases vaccinated with a single dose had approximately 35 to 50% reduced risk of becoming a confirmed case of COVID-19. This study used routine testing data so would only include household contacts that developed symptoms and went on to request a test via pillar 2. It cannot exclude asymptomatic secondary cases or mildly symptomatic cases who chose not to request a COVID-19 test (16). Data from Scotland has also shown that household contacts of vaccinated healthcare workers are at reduced risk of becoming a case, which is in line with the studies on infection (17). Both of these studies relate to a period when the Alpha variant dominated. An analysis from the ONS Community Infection Survey found that contacts of vaccinated index cases had around 65-80% reduced odds of testing positive with the Alpha variant and 35-65% reduced odds of testing positive with the Delta variant compare to contacts of unvaccinated index cases (18).
Hospitalisation and Mortality;

Effectiveness against hospitalisation Several studies have estimated vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation in older all of which indicate higher levels of protection against hospitalisation with all vaccines against the Alpha variant (7, 8, 9, 10). Effectiveness against hospitalisation of over 90% is also observed with the Delta variant with all 3 vaccines (3). In most groups there is relatively limited waning of protection against hospitalisation over a period of at least 5 months after the second dose. Greater waning appears to occur among those in clinical risk groups (3). Effectiveness against mortality High levels of protection (over 90%) are also seen against mortality with all 3 vaccines and against both the Alpha and Delta variants (7, 11, 3). Relatively limited waning of protection against mortality is seen over a period of at least 5 months.
So in closing, when interpreting a report, READ THE WHOLE REPORT, don't just cherry pick something that agrees with you and look stupid.

PS, Transmission and Infection are two different things, Transmission you might get some virus detectable in you, Infection the virus can replicate to level considered 'infected'. I say this because if you read back the protection from infection even vs delta of a vaccinated person is 80%+.

Last edited by 43Inches; 14th Oct 2021 at 22:33.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 22:16
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Originally Posted by indigopete
disease enhancement features. <-- Mods note: All formal scientific journal published. No anti-vax conspiracy looptard nor pro-vax virtiousity arms-race sources linked.

I'd say right now it's a 50-50 toss-up whether Quantas et al should be banning the unvaxed or the vaxed from flight crew duties. Maybe just live, let live and get on with some useful stuff instead of this autocratic nonsense.
ADE must be the anti-vax buzzword of the year. Even your own study admits there is no evidence of the effect in the preclinical trials around at the time of writing, which was approximately 12 months ago - a very long time in a disease that is less than 2 years old. How many vaccine doses have been administered now - about 4 billion? More than enough time to demonstrate worse clinical outcomes for vaccinated individuals and yet we have not seen this anywhere.

A bit of critical thinking goes a long way. And no - disagreeing with the status quo is not the same as critical thinking!
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 23:11
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Bugger me, this pandemic has brought out some nuffies!

It would make a for a great study one day; the psychology behind the minority desperately spreading fear and misinformation.

Eye-opening stuff really.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 23:50
  #928 (permalink)  
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Don't bother with the minority, demographics show that the majority is who count in the end. Politicians live and survive on the numbers and the numbers, overwhelmingly, show
the majority are in favour of the vax. Take it to the bank, if legislation is what it takes to get the population vaccinated, it will be passed as law.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 01:58
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmmm. I reckon you're conflating someone's decision to get vaccinated for someone's support for a law making it compulsory. I've decided to get vaccinated but do not support a law making it compulsory.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 03:05
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon
Hmmmm. I reckon you're conflating someone's decision to get vaccinated for someone's support for a law making it compulsory. I've decided to get vaccinated but do not support a law making it compulsory.
No-ones making it compulsory- but they are introducing restrictions if you don't. As not being vaccinated makes you more of a threat to others, that's appropriate.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 21:23
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Originally Posted by Stickshift3000
Bugger me, this pandemic has brought out some nuffies!

It would make a for a great study one day; the psychology behind the minority desperately spreading fear and misinformation.

Eye-opening stuff really.
You forgot hoarding bog roll.......
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 21:28
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Originally Posted by morno
Have you ever considered that maybe there’s just not enough people who WANT to become doctors or nurses?

Its a bloody long road to become a doctor, and even longer to become a nurse that earns any decent sort of money.

Sure you can do your degree as a doctor in 6 years or whatever it is, but then you spend years again specialising in your chosen field (anaesthetics, GP, surgeon, just to mention a few).

So to expect a qualified doctor who’s trained in the necessary field to appear out of no where and magically begin curing Covid patients (who soon will mainly be the unvaccinated anyway….. ohhh, now I see why they’re scared), is very unrealistic.
Well, the government's obtuse attitude toward refugees could help the situation - at least one person I know of that arrived on a boat as a genuine refugee and spent years locked up in North-Western Australia just for running away from a situation where he was to be executed if they caught him (in Iraq). It is an example of what bone-heads we have running this country (both sides of politics), as that man is none other than Dr Munjeed Al-Maduris who, thanks to him using every legal avenue to get out of detention, is now the spear-head of Australia leading the world in osseo-integration surgery. He has changed so many lives, not just in Australia but all over the world and everyone else is behind us because of him.

I wonder how many other Dr Munjeeds there are languishing on Manus Island or on their way back to their home country. Yet, we can afford to spend millions locking up two adults and 2 little children on a deserted island.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 22:07
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
Well, the government's obtuse attitude toward refugees could help the situation - at least one person I know of that arrived on a boat as a genuine refugee and spent years locked up in North-Western Australia just for running away from a situation where he was to be executed if they caught him (in Iraq). It is an example of what bone-heads we have running this country (both sides of politics), as that man is none other than Dr Munjeed Al-Maduris who, thanks to him using every legal avenue to get out of detention, is now the spear-head of Australia leading the world in osseo-integration surgery. He has changed so many lives, not just in Australia but all over the world and everyone else is behind us because of him.

I wonder how many other Dr Munjeeds there are languishing on Manus Island or on their way back to their home country. Yet, we can afford to spend millions locking up two adults and 2 little children on a deserted island.
Very true. For a country that has founded itself on the basis of immigration, its a strange stance to take.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 22:52
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
You forgot hoarding bog roll.......
this pandemic is like a religion for some people . They look at their little green tick in the vaccination passport and they feel safe and cozy. Just like when people entered the church during the past centuries to save themselves from the devil.

the Pope has now been substituted to the health experts. No one is questioning anything. If someone ask a question they are labeled anti christ or its called today anti vaxx believers.

It makes perfect sense that we can travel from NSW to London but not from NSW to Qld. This is the health experts advise. ?!

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Old 15th Oct 2021, 23:00
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by union
this pandemic is like a religion for some people . They look at their little green tick in the vaccination passport and they feel safe and cozy. Just like when people entered the church during the past centuries to save themselves from the devil.

the Pope has now been substituted to the health experts. No one is questioning anything. If someone ask a question they are labeled anti christ or its called today anti vaxx believers.

It makes perfect sense that we can travel from NSW to London but not from NSW to Qld. This is the health experts advise. ?!
The problem isn't asking question- the problem is where people like you go for the answers.
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Old 15th Oct 2021, 23:38
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
Well, the government's obtuse attitude toward refugees could help the situation - at least one person I know of that arrived on a boat as a genuine refugee and spent years locked up in North-Western Australia just for running away from a situation where he was to be executed if they caught him (in Iraq). ... that man is none other than Dr Munjeed Al-Maduris
He didn't spend years locked up at all. He was detained at Curtin for 10 months while his identity and story was verified. The bloke had flown to Malaysia from Jordan on a passport that identified his occupation as Handyman. He then decided to take a people smuggler's boat from Indonesia to Christmas Island and destroyed his passport before embarking.

And contrary to your assertion that he had to use every legal avenue, he in fact availed himself of none. His application was processed without any recourse to appeals.

Last edited by MickG0105; 16th Oct 2021 at 00:05. Reason: Added details re processing
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 00:55
  #937 (permalink)  
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Well spotted Mick. This is the problem these days, you can source information from a credible source or use Facebook. As eluded to by Wizofoz.
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 01:09
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Originally Posted by union

the Pope has now been substituted to the health experts. No one is questioning anything. If someone ask a question they are labeled anti christ or its called today anti vaxx believers.
Nothing wrong with questioning, but when someone completely unqualified believes they know more than highly qualified people with years of experience, we might have a problem.

If the 20000-hr captain announces on the PA that well be cruising at 39000, and a passenger with no real aviation background or knowledge says no, thats wrong, we should be at 28000, then I put it to you that the passenger is a bit of a tool with an inflated sense of their own competence. Now maybe FL400 isnt the ideal level and wed be better of at FL380 - but that passenger is still a tool.
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 01:25
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective

I wonder how many other Dr Munjeeds there are languishing on Manus Island or on their way back to their home country. Yet, we can afford to spend millions locking up two adults and 2 little children on a deserted island.
Christmas is not deserted at all and the family were not locked up. The only fence they had nearby was the one around the pool next to their house, which was nowhere near the detention centre. They were going to school with the local kids on a beautiful island. Home detention in Perth must be grim after that.

As for "questioning everything" make sure you check your sources. Who published it, who funded it, conflict of interest etc. Much of the anti vaxx information I've seen on social media seems to be disseminated by dodgy far right organisations.
If people think that Clive Palmer is a credible source then maybe glugging down sheep drench isn't such a bad thing, just speeding up the laws of natural selection a bit.
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Old 16th Oct 2021, 01:27
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Anyone who isnt a fan of Gruen, do yourselves a favour and watch the first episode of the new series on iView. There is a very funny and salient pitch about COVID misinformation. The gist is a bloke going into anaphylactic shock and when an onlooker tries to administer an epipen shot there is a short to and fro about the origin, brand and length of clinical testing done on the epipen. The bloke dies before the shot is administered. Brilliant satire.
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