QF mandates Vaccine
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be, If it was dismissed, it didn't get up.
P.S show me one that was not against a public health order that got up.
P.S show me one that was not against a public health order that got up.
Last edited by theheadmaster; 19th Oct 2021 at 13:01.
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
and of course the only place in the world where that occurred - you guessed it - Australia- Nanny state extreme.
Another example of someone assuming what they feel must be true IS true.
Last edited by Wizofoz; 18th Oct 2021 at 23:27.
Originally Posted by theheadmaster
An employee can mandate a vaccination if it is lawful and reasonable. You don’t have to have a public health order for such a mandate to be lawful. Workers have been dismissed for refusing an employer mandated flu vaccination (not a public health order). Fair work found the dismissal was not unfair. What legal concept are you relying on to differentiate a flu vaccine from a COVID vaccine?
An employer may well be able to make such a mandate, that doesn't make it right. To terminate someone for non compliance of a flu shot, well it must be new. Just goes to show how many managers there are that shouldn't be.
I still won't be doing it. (making such a mandate) won't be policing anyone else's mandate either.
https://www.victorianchamber.com.au/...le-or-unlawful
https://www.vgso.vic.gov.au/fair-wor...ons-workplaces
https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...27-p58v5a.html
3 cases upheld so far, 2 in Victoria, one in NSW. These are all carer positions which makes legal sense as 'vulnerable' citizens are at risk. Unfortunately for the airline anti vaxxers, airline ops would have exposure to the vulnerable as well so I don't see much change there.
The key lines used by the commissioners is that 'employees' are not forced to vaccinate, they have the choice, so no body integrity rights are infringed. In the case of restricting employment duties, the health act allows for restriction of movement to facilitate health safety, therefore restricting employment duties of those that don't comply with health based requirements is deemed lawful. If the company can not reasonably reassign you to alternative duties they may dismiss the employee. That is how the current laws are being interpreted. The only out is if you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, you have to prove then the reason, and that the reason applies for all vaccine types. In all three cases the workers failed to prove they had any medical grounds and the dismissal was upheld. In the NSW case it was even evident that the commissioners felt that she could not conduct duties safely even with a medical exemption, so it would still have been upheld.
PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.
https://www.vgso.vic.gov.au/fair-wor...ons-workplaces
https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...27-p58v5a.html
3 cases upheld so far, 2 in Victoria, one in NSW. These are all carer positions which makes legal sense as 'vulnerable' citizens are at risk. Unfortunately for the airline anti vaxxers, airline ops would have exposure to the vulnerable as well so I don't see much change there.
The key lines used by the commissioners is that 'employees' are not forced to vaccinate, they have the choice, so no body integrity rights are infringed. In the case of restricting employment duties, the health act allows for restriction of movement to facilitate health safety, therefore restricting employment duties of those that don't comply with health based requirements is deemed lawful. If the company can not reasonably reassign you to alternative duties they may dismiss the employee. That is how the current laws are being interpreted. The only out is if you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, you have to prove then the reason, and that the reason applies for all vaccine types. In all three cases the workers failed to prove they had any medical grounds and the dismissal was upheld. In the NSW case it was even evident that the commissioners felt that she could not conduct duties safely even with a medical exemption, so it would still have been upheld.
PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.
Last edited by 43Inches; 18th Oct 2021 at 23:51.
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So this thread comes full circle. The legal test for an employer to mandate a vaccine is: ‘is it lawful and is it reasonable’. Lawful does not mean it has been directed by a health order or similar, but rather there is no law prohibiting it. Reasonable is not a personal judgment by the employee, it is a specific legal test. Come 15 November, if you are a Qantas group pilot and you have refused vaccination and have not been granted an exemption, you could have your employment terminated. AIPA has supported the company policy, so don’t expect any assistance from them running a case against the policy. I believe (but have not confirmed) that AFAP have broadly supported the policy also, so would not expect them to run a case either. Even if you run your own case in Fair Work for unfair dismissal, if you are successful, you are not guaranteed to be reinstated. If the company can demonstrate that the employment relationship has soured irrevocably, then you won’t be reinstated.
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Is that right! I'm so glad I'm retired from the Airlines ……
I still won't be doing it.
I still won't be doing it.
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Originally Posted by captcloudbuster
who cares? You don’t work as a professional pilot in an airline anyhow. You’ve got no skin in the game. Explain to me why you’re here again??
Originally Posted by Wizofoz
And the mis-information continues. I've worked in Japan, UK and UAE- hearing protection mandated in all.
Another example of someone assuming what they feel must be true IS true.
Another example of someone assuming what they feel must be true IS true.
So you Sir, are the one Full of Sh.t
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Wiz Wiz, Wiz, I worked in the UAE for 14 years, never had anyone tell me I couldn't go do a walk around unless I showed em my hearing protection. Never had anyone talk to me about hearing protection in the UK, or in Japan. As I correctly stated - Only in Aus
So you Sir, are the one Full of Sh.t
So you Sir, are the one Full of Sh.t
You never heard anyone talking about it because no where else are there syuch a bunch of whiners that would think protecting your hearing was some kind of "mah Freedumb" imposition!
UK HSE requirements mandating hearing protection-
HSE - Noise: Hearing protection
UAE GCAA requirements-
CAP 699 (gcaa.gov.ae)
38.4 The areas in which hearing protection is required should be marked and warning notices displayed, so far as is reasonably practicable. This may be difficult on the apron itself, but relatively easy within or on equipment, e.g. in cabs of vehicles where the second action level may be exceeded for part or all of the time. Signs should also be placed at all apron access points.
You said i was talking s1t.
Appologise.
Last edited by Wizofoz; 19th Oct 2021 at 05:03.
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
Who cares? You don’t work as a Professional Pilot in an Airline anyhow. You’ve got no skin in the game. Explain to me why you’re here again??
P.S define Professional Pilot, if there's such a thing
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Who cares, I care, I'm still a "company" so you young blokes that know everything don't be whinging when it's a company mandate you don't agree with.
P.S define Professional Pilot, if there's such a thing
P.S define Professional Pilot, if there's such a thing
Originally Posted by morno
Someone whom earns money from practising as a pilot. Pretty easy definition really.
Originally Posted by 43Inches
. The only out is if you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, you have to prove then the reason, and that the reason applies for all vaccine types.
PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.
PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.
ATAGI Expanded guidance on temporary medical exemptions for COVID-19 vaccines (health.gov.au)
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Originally Posted by Xeptu
Oh! this is going to be an interesting conversation.
Those vaccinated will move forward, those not will fall behind.
Whether right or wrong is irrelevant.
Questions of legality of company directives may be taken to court but I'm guessing will not fall the way of the non-vax brigade.
You've had a good run, dominated the conversation, I suspect you'll be left to yelling at clouds and largely ignored in the very near future.
Cheers.
Wiz
Never went out with the muffs, never got fronted by anyone ever.
Then i bet you never WENT on the tarmac without it. Been fronted by tarmac Nazis in the UK for not having my Hi-Viz zipped up, Hearing protection was an ops manual requirement at EK, and you think the JAPANESE don't stricktley enforce standars?
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Originally Posted by galdian
Those vaccinated will move forward, those not will fall behind.
Whether right or wrong is irrelevant
Whether right or wrong is irrelevant
I’m vaccinated, and I encourage all to do the same.
But I reject the right of my employer to mandate it, and I suggest a well-fought human rights case may support that at some time in the future.
When was the last time any of you had a beer with someone who grew up in a country with no human rights?
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Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Wiz
Never went out with the muffs, never got fronted by anyone ever.
Never went out with the muffs, never got fronted by anyone ever.
You broke regulations and got away with it. Doesn't mean they didn't exist, and you said i was talking sh1t when i wasn't.
Appollogise.
