Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF mandates Vaccine

Old 18th Oct 2021, 22:39
  #1001 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
I'm not a lawyer, never claimed to be, If it was dismissed, it didn't get up.

P.S show me one that was not against a public health order that got up.
An employer can mandate a vaccination if it is lawful and reasonable. You don’t have to have a public health order for such a mandate to be lawful. Workers have been dismissed for refusing an employer mandated flu vaccination (not a public health order). Fair work found the dismissal was not unfair. What legal concept are you relying on to differentiate a flu vaccine from a COVID vaccine?

Last edited by theheadmaster; 19th Oct 2021 at 13:01.
theheadmaster is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2021, 23:03
  #1002 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,789
Received 45 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
and of course the only place in the world where that occurred - you guessed it - Australia- Nanny state extreme.
And the mis-information continues. I've worked in Japan, UK and UAE- hearing protection mandated in all.

Another example of someone assuming what they feel must be true IS true.

Last edited by Wizofoz; 18th Oct 2021 at 23:27.
Wizofoz is online now  
Old 18th Oct 2021, 23:23
  #1003 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,122
Received 81 Likes on 47 Posts
Originally Posted by theheadmaster
An employee can mandate a vaccination if it is lawful and reasonable. You don’t have to have a public health order for such a mandate to be lawful. Workers have been dismissed for refusing an employer mandated flu vaccination (not a public health order). Fair work found the dismissal was not unfair. What legal concept are you relying on to differentiate a flu vaccine from a COVID vaccine?
Is that right! I'm so glad I'm retired from the Airlines and the Stupidity industry has become. In truth it has always been there, like adding gear pins to the checklist because the chief pilot took off with them in, it took years to have that removed. I hope you boys are still wearing your spark resistant boots on the apron.

An employer may well be able to make such a mandate, that doesn't make it right. To terminate someone for non compliance of a flu shot, well it must be new. Just goes to show how many managers there are that shouldn't be.

I still won't be doing it. (making such a mandate) won't be policing anyone else's mandate either.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2021, 23:37
  #1004 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,833
Received 436 Likes on 238 Posts
https://www.victorianchamber.com.au/...le-or-unlawful

https://www.vgso.vic.gov.au/fair-wor...ons-workplaces

https://www.smh.com.au/business/work...27-p58v5a.html

3 cases upheld so far, 2 in Victoria, one in NSW. These are all carer positions which makes legal sense as 'vulnerable' citizens are at risk. Unfortunately for the airline anti vaxxers, airline ops would have exposure to the vulnerable as well so I don't see much change there.

The key lines used by the commissioners is that 'employees' are not forced to vaccinate, they have the choice, so no body integrity rights are infringed. In the case of restricting employment duties, the health act allows for restriction of movement to facilitate health safety, therefore restricting employment duties of those that don't comply with health based requirements is deemed lawful. If the company can not reasonably reassign you to alternative duties they may dismiss the employee. That is how the current laws are being interpreted. The only out is if you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, you have to prove then the reason, and that the reason applies for all vaccine types. In all three cases the workers failed to prove they had any medical grounds and the dismissal was upheld. In the NSW case it was even evident that the commissioners felt that she could not conduct duties safely even with a medical exemption, so it would still have been upheld.

PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.

Last edited by 43Inches; 18th Oct 2021 at 23:51.
43Inches is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2021, 23:50
  #1005 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 5 Posts
So this thread comes full circle. The legal test for an employer to mandate a vaccine is: ‘is it lawful and is it reasonable’. Lawful does not mean it has been directed by a health order or similar, but rather there is no law prohibiting it. Reasonable is not a personal judgment by the employee, it is a specific legal test. Come 15 November, if you are a Qantas group pilot and you have refused vaccination and have not been granted an exemption, you could have your employment terminated. AIPA has supported the company policy, so don’t expect any assistance from them running a case against the policy. I believe (but have not confirmed) that AFAP have broadly supported the policy also, so would not expect them to run a case either. Even if you run your own case in Fair Work for unfair dismissal, if you are successful, you are not guaranteed to be reinstated. If the company can demonstrate that the employment relationship has soured irrevocably, then you won’t be reinstated.
theheadmaster is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 00:02
  #1006 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,833
Received 436 Likes on 238 Posts
So this thread comes full circle.
This thread has done more circle work than a Bogan in a VL on Friday night.
43Inches is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 02:35
  #1007 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: TIBA
Posts: 463
Received 130 Likes on 38 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Is that right! I'm so glad I'm retired from the Airlines ……
I still won't be doing it.
Who cares? You don’t work as a Professional Pilot in an Airline anyhow. You’ve got no skin in the game. Explain to me why you’re here again??

CaptCloudbuster is online now  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 02:49
  #1008 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia the Awesome
Posts: 399
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by captcloudbuster
who cares? You don’t work as a professional pilot in an airline anyhow. You’ve got no skin in the game. Explain to me why you’re here again??
😂😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍👍
Roj approved is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 04:14
  #1009 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 284
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
Originally Posted by Wizofoz
And the mis-information continues. I've worked in Japan, UK and UAE- hearing protection mandated in all.

Another example of someone assuming what they feel must be true IS true.
Wiz Wiz, Wiz, I worked in the UAE for 14 years, never had anyone tell me I couldn't go do a walk around unless I showed em my hearing protection. Never had anyone talk to me about hearing protection in the UK, or in Japan. As I correctly stated - Only in Aus

So you Sir, are the one Full of Sh.t
Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 04:51
  #1010 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,789
Received 45 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Wiz Wiz, Wiz, I worked in the UAE for 14 years, never had anyone tell me I couldn't go do a walk around unless I showed em my hearing protection. Never had anyone talk to me about hearing protection in the UK, or in Japan. As I correctly stated - Only in Aus

So you Sir, are the one Full of Sh.t
Then i bet you never WENT on the tarmac without it. Been fronted by tarmac Nazis in the UK for not having my Hi-Viz zipped up, Hearing protection was an ops manual requirement at EK, and you think the JAPANESE don't stricktley enforce standars?

You never heard anyone talking about it because no where else are there syuch a bunch of whiners that would think protecting your hearing was some kind of "mah Freedumb" imposition!

UK HSE requirements mandating hearing protection-
HSE - Noise: Hearing protection

UAE GCAA requirements-
CAP 699 (gcaa.gov.ae)
38.4 The areas in which hearing protection is required should be marked and warning notices displayed, so far as is reasonably practicable. This may be difficult on the apron itself, but relatively easy within or on equipment, e.g. in cabs of vehicles where the second action level may be exceeded for part or all of the time. Signs should also be placed at all apron access points.

You said i was talking s1t.

Appologise.

Last edited by Wizofoz; 19th Oct 2021 at 05:03.
Wizofoz is online now  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 05:33
  #1011 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,122
Received 81 Likes on 47 Posts
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
Who cares? You don’t work as a Professional Pilot in an Airline anyhow. You’ve got no skin in the game. Explain to me why you’re here again??
Who cares, I care, I'm still a "company" so you young blokes that know everything don't be whinging when it's a company mandate you don't agree with.

P.S define Professional Pilot, if there's such a thing
Xeptu is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 06:24
  #1012 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Posts: 2,475
Received 319 Likes on 119 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Who cares, I care, I'm still a "company" so you young blokes that know everything don't be whinging when it's a company mandate you don't agree with.

P.S define Professional Pilot, if there's such a thing
Someone whom earns money from practising as a pilot. Pretty easy definition really.
morno is online now  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 06:40
  #1013 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: The Swan Downunder
Posts: 1,122
Received 81 Likes on 47 Posts
Originally Posted by morno
Someone whom earns money from practising as a pilot. Pretty easy definition really.
Oh! this is going to be an interesting conversation.
Xeptu is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 07:13
  #1014 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 1,447
Received 228 Likes on 78 Posts
Xeptu, what is your problem. Even the NSW Supreme Court has ruled that these vaccine orders do not constitute a ‘mandate’.
Ollie Onion is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 07:24
  #1015 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,326
Received 244 Likes on 113 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
. The only out is if you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated, you have to prove then the reason, and that the reason applies for all vaccine types.

PS Health Acts have variation from state to state, so there may be some wiggle in other states.
And here are the guidelines
ATAGI Expanded guidance on temporary medical exemptions for COVID-19 vaccines (health.gov.au)
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 08:17
  #1016 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Xeptu
Oh! this is going to be an interesting conversation.
I don't think it will be interesting and I don't think there'll be a conversation.

Those vaccinated will move forward, those not will fall behind.
Whether right or wrong is irrelevant.

Questions of legality of company directives may be taken to court but I'm guessing will not fall the way of the non-vax brigade.

You've had a good run, dominated the conversation, I suspect you'll be left to yelling at clouds and largely ignored in the very near future.

Cheers.

galdian is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 08:17
  #1017 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Doomadgee
Posts: 284
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
Wiz
Then i bet you never WENT on the tarmac without it. Been fronted by tarmac Nazis in the UK for not having my Hi-Viz zipped up, Hearing protection was an ops manual requirement at EK, and you think the JAPANESE don't stricktley enforce standars?
Never went out with the muffs, never got fronted by anyone ever.

Capn Rex Havoc is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 09:24
  #1018 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 122
Received 29 Likes on 13 Posts
Originally Posted by C441
Later in that episode there was an amusing pitch encouraging people to get vaccinated……
This one's better
antheads is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 10:21
  #1019 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by galdian
Those vaccinated will move forward, those not will fall behind.
Whether right or wrong is irrelevant
Actually, I believe the “whether right or wrong” is the entire point of this thread.

I’m vaccinated, and I encourage all to do the same.

But I reject the right of my employer to mandate it, and I suggest a well-fought human rights case may support that at some time in the future.

When was the last time any of you had a beer with someone who grew up in a country with no human rights?
Derfred is offline  
Old 19th Oct 2021, 10:31
  #1020 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,789
Received 45 Likes on 21 Posts
Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc
Wiz

Never went out with the muffs, never got fronted by anyone ever.
From time to time I've forgotten and done a walk around without them in Australia, and never been fronted- does that mean you're talking sh1t about it being regulation in Australia?

You broke regulations and got away with it. Doesn't mean they didn't exist, and you said i was talking sh1t when i wasn't.

Appollogise.
Wizofoz is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.