Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

QF mandates Vaccine

Old 16th Oct 2021, 01:34
  #941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard
Nothing wrong with questioning, but when someone completely unqualified believes they know more than highly qualified people with years of experience, we might have a problem.

If the 20000-hr captain announces on the PA that we’ll be cruising at 39000’, and a passenger with no real aviation background or knowledge says ‘no, that’s wrong, we should be at 28000’, then I put it to you that the passenger is a bit of a tool with an inflated sense of their own competence. Now maybe FL400 isn’t the ideal level and we’d be better of at FL380 - but that passenger is still a tool.
having 20.000 hours doesn’t make a Captain an expert.
to confirm that statement, look at how many aircrafts have crashed with experienced pilots in the cockpit.

back to the medical subject. Not all scientists agrees with each other…….
Same in a cockpit. FOs are sometime flying with clowns (idiots with 20.000h), that’s why CRM was invented 😝
74world is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 02:15
  #942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 289
Received 144 Likes on 40 Posts
Originally Posted by AerialPerspective
Well, the government's obtuse attitude toward refugees could help the situation - at least one person I know of that arrived on a boat as a genuine refugee and spent years locked up in North-Western Australia just for running away from a situation where he was to be executed if they caught him (in Iraq). It is an example of what bone-heads we have running this country (both sides of politics), as that man is none other than Dr Munjeed Al-Maduris who, thanks to him using every legal avenue to get out of detention, is now the spear-head of Australia leading the world in osseo-integration surgery. He has changed so many lives, not just in Australia but all over the world and everyone else is behind us because of him.

I wonder how many other Dr Munjeeds there are languishing on Manus Island or on their way back to their home country. Yet, we can afford to spend millions locking up two adults and 2 little children on a deserted island.
Why are you moaning about immigration policy in a thread about QF vaccine mandates? Further, why are you posting blatant lies to substantiate it?

I suppose if nothing else it provides a wonderful allegory for this thread in general.. People will post whatever drivel they read on facebook and take it as 'fact' if it correlates with their confirmation bias. Meanwhile of course, they'll endlessly 'question' every peer reviewed, factually based scientific study if it doesn't.

Less than 30 sleeps to go until these clowns are no longer my problem.

Last edited by das Uber Soldat; 16th Oct 2021 at 02:36.
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 02:45
  #943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vegas, not 'las', or 'bris', but the other one
Posts: 112
Received 24 Likes on 7 Posts
It makes perfect sense that we can travel from NSW to London but not from NSW to Qld. This is the health experts advise. ?!

Can someone please explain to me the logic behind this? No because it is not logical.

While we are at it, explain to me how it is logical that I can sit without a mask in a stadium with thousands of other people, but have to wear the mask while entering and exiting the stadium?

You can’t because it is completely illogical.

We should be questioning this advice…..
mince is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 02:56
  #944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pretty logical.

1. QLD is pursuing an elimination strategy (or at least a high suppression strategy) until sufficiently vaccinated. London is not.

2. They can contact trace you, based on your seat number, if someone sitting near you subsequently tests positive. Entering and exiting the stadium, however, they don’t know who’s been coughing all over who.

Please feel free to ask questions.
Derfred is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 03:33
  #945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 616
Received 76 Likes on 31 Posts
Originally Posted by 74world
having 20.000 hours doesn’t make a Captain an expert.
to confirm that statement, look at how many aircrafts have crashed with experienced pilots in the cockpit.
Our 20000 hour captain mightn’t be infallible, but we can reasonably assume that he’s at least got some idea. The point, which you seem to have wilfully missed, is that he’s got much more idea of how to operate an aircraft than someone who’s Done Their Research by looking at a YouTube video on aeroplanes.
itsnotthatbloodyhard is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 04:55
  #946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Europe
Posts: 284
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard
Our 20000 hour captain mightn’t be infallible, but we can reasonably assume that he’s at least got some idea. The point, which you seem to have wilfully missed, is that he’s got much more idea of how to operate an aircraft than someone who’s Done Their Research by looking at a YouTube video on aeroplanes.
obviously you only know the extreme.
either 20.000h (therefore an expert), or YouTube troll

pointless then to have a discussion…..stay with your certainties professor 😏
74world is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:00
  #947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: vegas, not 'las', or 'bris', but the other one
Posts: 112
Received 24 Likes on 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Derfred
Pretty logical.

1. QLD is pursuing an elimination strategy (or at least a high suppression strategy) until sufficiently vaccinated. London is not.

2. They can contact trace you, based on your seat number, if someone sitting near you subsequently tests positive. Entering and exiting the stadium, however, they don’t know who’s been coughing all over who.

Please feel free to ask questions.

1. So why are there different strategies? Are there also differing strategies for treatment of heart disease, or cancer? No there aren’t.

2. So why do I have to wear a mask on an aeroplane? They can contact trace me there….

We are blindly following these peoples advice without question, and it is scary.
mince is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:09
  #948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,939
Received 483 Likes on 268 Posts
Expertise in Pilotage is a mix of Knowledge and Technical Skills. Knowledge comes from being taught or exposed to the relevant conditions, procedures and events that come with aviation. Technical skills come from practice, procedural and systems knowledge. All of this is achieved through time in the job aka hours in the logbook.

When that is considered, a 20,000 hour 747 Captain would most likely be considered an expert in his field especially if most of his hours were in Airline operations and flying large jets, after all he's not going to be a 747 Captain on passenger flights without some decent experiences and training. The 'Idiot' captains being referred to for poor CRM etc are poor in non-technical skills. They lack interpersonal skills to appropriately lead a crew in time pressure situations, is this desirable in a pilot? no, does it mean that the pilot is not an expert in 747 operations, also no.

Medicine is no different, Expert surgeons are often aloof characters with poor interpersonal skills. But that matters nowt if they know their subject inside out and can wield a scalpel with grace.

Now applied in the case of Covid, is that worldwide many studies by qualified experts have been conducted and found what we know today. The odd outlying expert will have opinions that differ for whatever reason, but, the vast majority back what we are doing, and hence we are following the consensus of most experts in the medical field.

Expert pilots make mistakes and get caught out like expert surgeons do, and somebody might die, property damaged. Expert just means they have greater knowledge and skills than a Novice, it does not make you infallible.
43Inches is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:16
  #949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 38
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
Why is this thread still going?? Mods??

This discussion has been finished, get a jab and move on with life.
aviation_enthus is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:29
  #950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 228
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by mince
1. So why are there different strategies? Are there also differing strategies for treatment of heart disease, or cancer? No there aren’t.

2. So why do I have to wear a mask on an aeroplane? They can contact trace me there….
1) Yes, there are. Ignoring that both heart disease and cancer are broad terms for dozens if not hundreds of different diseases, a range of potential treatments can be used or selected from or not used, based on a whole range of different factors including but not limited to disease stage, patient age and health, preexisting conditions, likelihood of success and side-effects, patient preference, cost, availability and a bunch of other things. At extremes, some people want to throw everything at their cancer, others want a few good months without the sideeffects of chemo etc before effective palliative care.

2) My guess? Because you're spending a couple of hours sitting right next to a couple of other people, in an indoor environment where air is circulating before being removed. Maybe it's not the best preventative? I'm not an expert on that, but if it lowers your chances by a maybe couple of percent? Or more? for effectively zero cost, it might well be worth having as one of the tools in the toolbox.

We are blindly following these peoples advice without question, and it is scary.
No we're not. If you're interested in asking questions, maybe ask about the grifters and the go-fund-mes attached to the conspiracy YouTube videos. One of the organisers of a Melbourne protest got arrested and refused to meet the conditions of her bail for twentytwo days or so, put up a fundraiser to raise money for her "defence of freedom case" and raised just over $300,000 - despite her lawyers operating pro-bono because they support her cause. Making $14,000 or so a day while sitting in lockup isn't a bad little earner.
De_flieger is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:38
  #951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 228
Received 9 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard
Our 20000 hour captain mightn’t be infallible, but we can reasonably assume that he’s at least got some idea. The point, which you seem to have wilfully missed, is that he’s got much more idea of how to operate an aircraft than someone who’s Done Their Research by looking at a YouTube video on aeroplanes.
Absolutely right. And it's been deeply disturbing watching aircrew who will happily agree with you on that point, then go on to spout anti-vax rubbish on Facebook because they've watched a couple of videos on YouTube. I get that we have been suffering with lockdowns and standdowns, which has emotionally primed them to be vulnerable to these emotive appeals that use complex terms that sound about right to a non-expert, and manage to appeal to their ego by telling them how they are the smart ones who have seen behind the scenes and outsmarted the doctors and immunologists who have worked in the field for decades.

That said, being stuck with senior training captains and similar who have fallen down the rabbit hole isn't a lot of fun. Sometimes it's downright demoralising when you otherwise respect them and enjoy (enjoyed) their company.
De_flieger is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:42
  #952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,939
Received 483 Likes on 268 Posts
Medical treatment is constantly evolving and changing, so there is never one method of treatment for anything, there is just the best current accepted methods.

Hip replacements are a good example, there is still debate over what entry aspect and methods, although anterior seems to be overall better and now much easier to perform with modern technology. Different surgeons will prefer different ways of doing things, based on their knowledge, skill and view on things.

Heart valves, again, another area that has many approaches. I recently met an older gentlemen that had a valve replaced with a pigs valve 15 years ago, now they can repair them and he was in hospital to get a factory manufactured valve for another one that was inoperable 15 years ago (heavy smoker drinker in his early life).

Point is medicine is not some black art in backyard alleys, science is more a part of it than ever. The stuff they are doing to keep people alive with good quality of life is amazing.
43Inches is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 05:54
  #953 (permalink)  
601
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Age: 78
Posts: 1,494
Received 25 Likes on 19 Posts
Different surgeons will prefer different ways of doing things, based on their knowledge, skill and view on things.
Wing down or crab?
Reduce power of lower the nose?

We could go on for days.
Heart valves, again, another area that has many approaches. I recently met an older gentlemen that had a valve replaced with a pigs valve 15 years ago, now they can repair them and he was in hospital to get a factory manufactured valve for another one that was inoperable 15 years ago (heavy smoker drinker in his early life).
My Doc reckons that based on statistics, I should have had my bi-cusped valve replaced five years ago.
But it is still there opening and closing opening and closing.
601 is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 06:35
  #954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Vic
Age: 56
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Sums up a lot of the debate over vaccines.

Ozgrade3 is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 07:24
  #955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sydney OZ
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 1 Post
There are refusers who won't get the vaccine and will resign. Then they may find it hard to get another job. Who wants to employ a refuser? They might all end up in a firm making a nice target for COVID. Darwin rules again.
Crosswhinge is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 09:35
  #956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,289
Received 50 Likes on 15 Posts
The anti vaxx and anti mandate tossers will wither away just like a vine without water, they like to toss and turn and act like toddlers, but meanwhile the other 95% of the population hate little baby tantrums. They have just been nuked out of the NSW Supreme Court for a ridiculously amateur case (not my words, the judges) Shout and complain all you like, you tossers are an endangered species LOL! Love it!
Angle of Attack is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 20:35
  #957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: brisbane
Age: 58
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Can we all agree with these facts?

The death rate in UK is approximately 2000 per million. That is 0,002 %.

Your survival rate is more than 99% . Let’s all just chill and relax and most importantly think and use our brains. Do not simply accept mainstream propaganda as a fact, it’s only an information that you can use to make up your own mind about what is the best choice for yourself.

Currently in NSW you can go to your unventilated office and work 8 hours without a mask, however you cannot spend 1 hour on an airplane with HEPA filters without a mask. You can travel to the USA but not to Queensland.

I think that we are all entitled to ask questions. In Europe and the USA millions and millions of people choose not to vaccinate. To think that these people are all lunatics is a very narrow minded way of viewing the situation.


union is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 20:44
  #958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: brisbane
Age: 58
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This covid is like a thick fog and we cannot see the real danger. What is more important than health ? The answer is money and power. Who is in charge and has been in power since WW2? The USA!

What is the world reserve currency? USD! Have the USA recovered from the global financial crisis of 2008? Hell no! The solution was and is printing money and printing more money. What has the global pandemic done to all central banks? It made them print even more money! What is the end result?

inflation and border line hyper inflation which will solve the debt problem of the western world.

how convenient…..
union is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 21:02
  #959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You anti vaxxers are hilarious. At least get your stories straight. Is it depopulation? Is it control? Now it’s about hyper inflation.

Sorry mate but you’re increasingly an outlier in an ever reducing very vocal minority.
wishiwasupthere is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2021, 21:12
  #960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,802
Received 51 Likes on 25 Posts
Originally Posted by union
Can we all agree with these facts?

The death rate in UK is approximately 2000 per million. That is 0,002 %.

Your survival rate is more than 99% . Let’s all just chill and relax and most importantly think and use our brains. Do not simply accept mainstream propaganda as a fact, it’s only an information that you can use to make up your own mind about what is the best choice for yourself.

Currently in NSW you can go to your unventilated office and work 8 hours without a mask, however you cannot spend 1 hour on an airplane with HEPA filters without a mask. You can travel to the USA but not to Queensland.

I think that we are all entitled to ask questions. In Europe and the USA millions and millions of people choose not to vaccinate. To think that these people are all lunatics is a very narrow minded way of viewing the situation.
Can we agre that 700 000 people have died of Covid in the USA? Can we agree that 92% of the approximatley 1800 people STILL dying per day in the US are unvaccinated?

Oh, and 2 000/ 1 000 000 is .2%. you're out by factor of 100.I should take advice from someone who can't do 6th grade math?
Wizofoz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.