Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

All borders to reopen.

Old 23rd Oct 2021, 01:39
  #8601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,318
Received 406 Likes on 220 Posts
Originally Posted by morno
Because you account for thousands of hours of flying every month that are unavailable because of some idiot who is power hungry and won’t admit his other failings in the public health system.
But that didn’t stop one airline announcing yesterday that based on the information they’ve received in negotiations with all governments and their future plans that they are comfortable in a few months to stand up all crew as they expect they’ll all be needed by then.
dr dre is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 01:49
  #8602 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 9 Posts
Dre: except international crews in states that are subject to self isolation, unless the crew member agrees. That is in the Q&A. Perth longhaul crews are still stuffed for the time being.
Chad Gates is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 01:56
  #8603 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,318
Received 406 Likes on 220 Posts
Originally Posted by Chad Gates
Dre: except international crews in states that are subject to self isolation, unless the crew member agrees. That is in the Q&A. Perth longhaul crews are still stuffed for the time being.
International flying will probably take a few extra months to come back to normal, I was more thinking of domestic restrictions. You need a lot more CC to operate widebodies than narrowbodies so if if all domestic CC are stood up they would expect a return of most widebodies on domestic routes, mainly transcon, and therefore are happy with the behind the scenes information they’ve received with the border situation to have those available crew stood up in a few months. Because I don’t think they would hesitate to continue to keep those crew stood down if they thought they wouldn’t need them for many months ahead.
dr dre is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 02:29
  #8604 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,869
Received 450 Likes on 248 Posts
Not sure why anyone really cares about WA borders. The flying is marginal profits, QF has already organised re-routing for international. At the end of the day the state can do what it wants, the population there supports it, so yelling at them to open up is like screaming at China to comply with something. They won't and will probably stay closed longer in spite of being told what to do.

In other news, does anyone else find it convenient that an anti-vax group specifically targeting Michael Gunner in the NT appeared a day or two after his smack down of Ted Cruz. Shouting his address and suggesting action be taken against him and his family. It reeks of another countries method of politics being wielded here.
43Inches is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 03:44
  #8605 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: aus
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 0
Received 113 Likes on 71 Posts
Originally Posted by SHVC
The April date is coincidental with the May dead line for a federal election. It’s rumored Sco Mo is going to call it when getting back from the Glasgow summit. Imagine doing the election in January whilst WA is shut and eastern states are traveling freely around the world. Labor will loose WA big time.
He wont call a campaign over xmas. He will either call it when he get back from glasgow where he can bask in the glory of his carbon zero policy and hopefully a successful reopening, but not have to worry about yet about the nats going crazy about the carbon zero. Or it will be late Jan or early Feb for march. He might go real hardcore and not call it so we have just the senate and the later the HOR. Split senate and HOR is my bet on whats going to happen
rattman is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 03:49
  #8606 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Al's Diner
Age: 64
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Not sure why anyone really cares about WA borders. The flying is marginal profits, QF has already organised re-routing for international. At the end of the day the state can do what it wants, the population there supports it, so yelling at them to open up is like screaming at China to comply with something. They won't and will probably stay closed longer in spite of being told what to do.

In other news, does anyone else find it convenient that an anti-vax group specifically targeting Michael Gunner in the NT appeared a day or two after his smack down of Ted Cruz. Shouting his address and suggesting action be taken against him and his family. It reeks of another countries method of politics being wielded here.
During the last mining boom it was the “marginal profits” of trans continental and intra WA that funded the ridiculous capacity war on the east coast, a senior executive told me of his frustration watching massive profits from WA being eaten away by empty flights every 15mins between Sydney and Melbourne.

Throughout COVID, it has been WA that has provided a reliable steady income for airlines.

With no domestic competition to the QF wide body product, the trans continental market is a sitting gold mine of profit. As soon as the WA border opens, those cashed up bogans will pack business class on these flights.

McGowan is an idiot, but airlines aren’t about to cut off their nose to spite their face with him. As soon as they can, they’ll jump heavily back into that market, coast to coast flying has always been a solid money spinner.

Last edited by Potsie Weber; 23rd Oct 2021 at 04:04.
Potsie Weber is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:16
  #8607 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,869
Received 450 Likes on 248 Posts
During the last mining boom it was the “marginal profits” of trans continental and intra WA that funded the ridiculous capacity war on the east coast, a senior executive told me of his frustration watching massive profits from WA being eaten away by empty flights every 15mins between Sydney and Melbourne.
Perth runs make some profit and mostly for QF in the business class area. Until the early 2000s Perth was a backwater with few flights that cost a fortune under the duopoly. Virgin tried at wide-bodies and struggled to make anything of it, it was fairly well known they were breaking even at best on the route with those and the 737 fleet was doing the hard yards. I flew with both QF and VA on the A330 and 767 products regularly, there was always an empty row of seats I could stretch out on for the last 10 years some flights being 1/3rd full. The 737/A320 flights were always full and uncomfortable. Ticket prices were nothing compared to the AN days being 1/4 of the actual prices they charged back then, not even adjusted for inflation.

Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane merry go round is the money spinner, and if you are not cashing in on that, you wont be around long.
43Inches is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:41
  #8608 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: australia
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by 43Inches
Not sure why anyone really cares about WA borders.

The Perth long haul crew that are stood down with very limited flying forecast over the next 4-6 months probably care I’d say
planedriver is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:49
  #8609 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,869
Received 450 Likes on 248 Posts
The Perth long haul crew that are stood down with very limited flying forecast over the next 4-6 months probably care I’d say
I sympathies with them, however would it really help them that much to open WA borders. Seriously transcontinent is done by domestic 737, so opening up the east to west really does not do much for them. You want international travel to the US and Europe and Asia for them to have proper work return. I mean its talked about like Perth is the center of QFs, network, when in reality we all know that Sydney, Sydney South (Melbourne) and Sydney North (Brisbane and Cairns) are the bulk of their services.
43Inches is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:50
  #8610 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,332
Received 247 Likes on 115 Posts
Originally Posted by SOPS
What I can’t understand is why all these people that live east of our border are obsessed with what we do in WA.

You are all open, enjoy it. Leave us alone. We enjoy what we have her. And you might be shocked .. but WA is not full of bogans.
Hear hear. It's very tedious reading all the bile and hatred.
Clare Prop is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 04:50
  #8611 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 2,318
Received 406 Likes on 220 Posts
Originally Posted by Potsie Weber
As soon as they can, they’ll jump heavily back into that market, coast to coast flying has always been a solid money spinner.
And PER-LHR was quite profitable too, a monopoly on the route will ensure that, they want more flights on that route, and that’s why they’ll restart it in April as announced.
dr dre is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:09
  #8612 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,089
Received 162 Likes on 71 Posts
You are all open, enjoy it. Leave us alone. We enjoy what we have her.
Yeah sure you enjoy the benefits of cheap interstate and foreign labour. Ultimately the government can't afford not to open the border. Things will just stop happening as there will be no one to do it. The airlines know this they will just bide their time eventually probably cutting off WA when the free money from Canberra stop flowing. Just maybe the locals need to learn the hard way you need the rest of the country to actually survive, as unpalatable that might be.

If Mc Gowan really screws it up he will have a Hospital Crisis with people dying in the street because there is not enough staff. Let's all hope he isn't so stupid to get to that point.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:14
  #8613 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,896
Received 164 Likes on 56 Posts
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
Yeah sure you enjoy the benefits of cheap interstate and foreign labour. Ultimately the government can't afford not to open the border. Things will just stop happening as there will be no one to do it. The airlines know this they will just bide their time eventually probably cutting off WA when the free money from Canberra stop flowing.
Again Neville. Why do you care?
If everything comes to a grinding halt because we can’t possibly survive without all you wise men from the east, we will sort it out when it happens. No need for you to worry.
SOPS is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:17
  #8614 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,089
Received 162 Likes on 71 Posts
Again Neville. Why do you care?
If everything comes to a grinding halt because we can’t possibly survive without all you wise men from the east, we will sort it out when it happens. No need for you to worry.
Because ultimately we are one country as much you might hate to admit it might just be time to join the team
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:24
  #8615 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,869
Received 450 Likes on 248 Posts
Yeah sure you enjoy the benefits of cheap interstate and foreign labour. Ultimately the government can't afford not to open the border. Things will just stop happening as there will be no one to do it. The airlines know this they will just bide their time eventually probably cutting off WA when the free money from Canberra stop flowing. Just maybe the locals need to learn the hard way you need the rest of the country to actually survive, as unpalatable that might be.
Not quite sure where this free money is coming from, oh that's right the gov is giving back WA citizens 40 cents in every dollar they pay in taxes.... The rest goes to subsidizing QLD, SA and the NT. Why QLD needs subsidising when they have wondrous COAL who knows... Oh that's right no one needs that stuff anymore so we sell it at close to cost to make it seem like there's an industry and take money from WAs profitable iron ore and gold production to prop up our economy.
43Inches is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:31
  #8616 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 25 Likes on 9 Posts
SOPS

May I ask why you believe that those in this board critical of MM are from over east? Hint: they are not


Clare

Is it true you believe that only West Australians that support MM should be able to post on this board?
Chad Gates is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:38
  #8617 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Coal Face
Posts: 1,327
Received 367 Likes on 141 Posts
Originally Posted by Chad Gates
SOPS

May I ask why you believe that those in this board critical of MM are from over east? Hint: they are not


Clare

Is it true you believe that oly West Australians that support MM should be able to post on this board?
Yep. ...............
Chronic Snoozer is online now  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 05:59
  #8618 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Al's Diner
Age: 64
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
I sympathies with them, however would it really help them that much to open WA borders. Seriously transcontinent is done by domestic 737, so opening up the east to west really does not do much for them. You want international travel to the US and Europe and Asia for them to have proper work return. I mean its talked about like Perth is the center of QFs, network, when in reality we all know that Sydney, Sydney South (Melbourne) and Sydney North (Brisbane and Cairns) are the bulk of their services.
Pretty sure pre-COVID there were more A330’s doing coast to coast than 737’s, probably around 5 flights per day to each Sydney and Melbourne. Business class usually full and good coin with many on corporate policies like business class for flights over 3hrs. It wasn’t just full of FF upgrades.

Dont think anyone believes Perth is in any way the centre of QFs network, doesn’t mean it’s not important though. For the 330 based crew, coast to coast is their bread and butter. During the short period domestic was fully open earlier this year, all Perth crew who wanted to fly were stood up.
Potsie Weber is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 06:12
  #8619 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,869
Received 450 Likes on 248 Posts
No doubt, but that comment was in regard to the long haul pilots having work, not domestic A330 crew, who would still be doing east coast runs as well.

With regard to A330 vs others that's now purely a QF consideration with no other airline operating the wide-bodies on that route so its all 737 and A320 traffic otherwise. In the days VA did it, there was a short run of good A330 coverage, but the last few years with yield management more and more 737 were being used to alleviate cost factor. Even in the US there is a move towards more cost effective large single aisle, with more A321 on order than ever, which shows they are over the issues the 757 was culled for, the expectation of long turn around times due to one aisle. QF is more unique, in that it has good corporate contracts so it can make profit on lower load factors due to its brand loyalty, something it's lived off for some time now.
43Inches is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2021, 07:11
  #8620 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cab of a Freight Train
Posts: 1,227
Received 129 Likes on 64 Posts
Originally Posted by 43Inches
No doubt, but that comment was in regard to the long haul pilots having work, not domestic A330 crew, who would still be doing east coast runs as well.
True, however the only reason the Perth LH crews are going to stay stood down until the year 2325AD is due to one reason, and one reason only. McGowan's border bollocks. Were he to see sense and do as other states have done, then they'd likely be getting recurrent if not now, then in the very near future and flying again by Christmas.

Originally Posted by SOPS
If everything comes to a grinding halt because we can’t possibly survive without all you wise men from the east, we will sort it out when it happens. No need for you to worry.
Clearly not.

Rio Tinto lost $3.2B profit - not revenue - profit due to the labour shortage in their iron ore operation. Work out the lost royalties on that, the lost payroll tax, the lost income tax from employee bonus payments, etc. BHP would be similar, and they have just advertised for Drivers for their rail network for the third time this year because they have introduced a "Thou shall live in WA" clause to their selection criteria. And the fact BHP - who pay a bucketoad more $$ on a far better roster than most any other operator outside the Pilbara cannot get WA-based crew show that WA can't do the job. If they could, Rio & BHP wouldn't be out billions of dollars and neither they, nor the tourist operators would be crying about the labour shortage in the state.

But they are. Because WA cannot manage things themselves, no matter how much you would like to think you can. If you could - I wouldn't have had a job there for well over a decade!

Originally Posted by Clare Prop
Hear hear. It's very tedious reading all the bile and hatred.
No one's forcing you to read it.

But you know what I've noticed from reading it? It isn't really directed at Steve Marshall, or Peter Gutwein or Michael Gunner, nor has it ever been. It has been, almost without fail, directed at McGowan & Anna-Stayaway, because it has been their border polices that have caused so much heartache. Even now, McGowan is not following his own border policies. NSW is still classified as "Extreme Risk" - defined as an average caseload of 500/day on a 14day rolling average. NSW has been under that for days - since the 19th October when we went from 508/day to 483/day on a 14-day rolling average.

The other interesting tidbit about that is the ACT remains Medium Risk for the WA border bollocks and has been for yonks, IIRC. However, if you correct the ACT case numbers, for NSW's population (NSW having 18.9x the population of the ACT), you will find the ACT has been above 500/day on a 14 day average since the 4th October. But they remain "Medium risk", even though they have a higher percentage of cases.
KRviator is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.